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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
bybetterunixthanunix ( 980855 ) writes:
A copyright ruling...but it is good for freedom...
Head explodes
byDarkKnightRadick ( 268025 ) writes:
It isn't good for freedom because it involves copyleft. It does nothing to keep anyone free. It's just another sort of shackle. Throw off the shackles! [copyfree.org]
byNursie ( 632944 ) writes:
The GPL vs BSD license argument never gets old for some folk does it?
Some say BSD-like licenses are bad because they permit people to use the code in a closed, non-free way.
Some say GPL-like licenses are bad because they forbid the same behaviour.
Each to their own, but the GPL allows people who contribute to the public good to make sure that their work is not abused (as they see it), by taking their effort, profiting from it and not sharing back. If that's not the way you roll, so be it, but it gives freedo
byChibi Merrow ( 226057 ) writes:
but it gives freedom to users that the BSD license does not.
Or, you could say, it TAKES freedom from users (ie: developers using a library) that the BSD license does not.
Not saying BSD is better, just saying GPL doesn't give "more freedoms" on a whole, it just assigns them to different people.
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byChris Burke ( 6130 ) writes:
It takes the freedom to take away freedom.
I will never, ever, feel any sympathy for anyone who thinks they are actually less free as a consequence.
byaccount_deleted ( 4530225 ) writes:
Comment removed based on user account deletion
byonefriedrice ( 1171917 ) writes:
It isn't quite right to say that the GPL takes freedom away from anyone, since there is no obligation to use GPL-licensed code.
Well, duh. There's no obligation to use any code; that doesn't mean we can't talk about the (di)similarities of each license in terms of freedoms given or taken away (held back). I'm all for the proper use of language in otherwise ambiguous situations, but let's not cloud the issue with pointless discussions about semantics when the meaning is perfectly clear.
byaccount_deleted ( 4530225 ) writes:
Comment removed based on user account deletion
byorasio ( 188021 ) writes:
but it gives freedom to users that the BSD license does not.
Or, you could say, it TAKES freedom from users (ie: developers using a library) that the BSD license does not.
Wrong. It takes freedom from those developers only while they are wearing their distributor hats. They can use GPLed libraries as much as they like. They are just limited from distributing in a way that takes freedom away from users. Their freedom as _users_ is not harmed.
Not saying BSD is better, just saying GPL doesn't give "more freedoms" on a whole, it just assigns them to different people.
You are right here. It takes freedom away from distributors, and gives it _all_ to users. Just they are not necessarily different people, just different roles.
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byunix1 ( 1667411 ) writes:
Nice - GPL translated in RBAC.
byDeadCatX2 ( 950953 ) writes:
What "freedom" does a user have if the software he wants never exists in the first place, because the GPLed code prevents a company from investing time and money into the product that the user wants?
Most users don't give a fuck about having access to the source code. Whether the source is open or closed has approximately zero value to them. They want a product. They want to buy it from a company who spent time and money ensuring that it will work, won't lose data, won't catch on fire, etc. A company tha
byNotBornYesterday ( 1093817 ) writes:
What "freedom" does a user have if the software he wants never exists in the first place, because the GPLed code prevents a company from investing time and money into the product that the user wants?
The user has the same freedoms he always has. They have the freedom to write their own software. Or pay to have it done. Or buy it from a closed source software house. Or stand on their heads and yodel, for all I or the GPL care.
GPL doesn't prevent companies from developing code. It prevents them from using other peoples' code if they are not willing to abide by certain conditions. Every piece of software these days, unless in the public domain, comes with some sort of restrictions attached. Don't
byorasio ( 188021 ) writes:
What "freedom" does a user have if the software he wants never exists in the first place, because the GPLed code prevents a company from investing time and money into the product that the user wants?
You couldn't be more wrong.
The GPLed code can't prevent companies from investing time and money.
The only way someone could prevent other companies from building stuff would be using patents, and the GPL doesn't involve filing patents.
The GPL enables us to form a walled community inside which we get to share our stuff, and not get ripped off. Companies are free to join our community, or not do it. They can stay outside and build their own stuff, or come inside and share with us the respect for users freedom.
byWNight ( 23683 ) writes:
What "freedom" does a user have if the software he wants never exists in the first place, because the GPLed code prevents a company from investing time and money into the product that the user wants?
If the GPL prevented you from "investing time and money" into a product you were either 1) unable to close the GPLed code for "your" product, or 2) had an idea for a niche already filled by a free alternative and weren't needed. Neither hurts the user.
Most users don't give a fuck about having access to the source code. Whether the source is open or closed has approximately zero value to them.
Bullshit. Most users don't know if their software is open source, but it has tremendous value to them if it is. That's the guarantee you won't lose your data when your key suddenly stops working.
They want to buy it from a company who spent time and money ensuring that it will work, won't lose data, won't catch on fire, etc. A company that provides a warranty and support.
Yeah, right. Which software company provides a warranty? Microsof
byAnonymous Coward writes:
developers users
Just have a look at the number of users of, say, Windows compared to the number of Windows developers.
YOU want the freedom to take the freedoms away from the users. Increased freedom for you: 1 unit. Decreased freedom for 10,000 users: 1 unit each.
Net loss: 9,999 units.
The only other alternative is that you think that what code you develop will have NO MORE than one person looking to learn from the code, expand it or just read it for giggles. And even in the case where ONLY ONE person you'r
byam 2k ( 217885 ) writes:
Your post and all of its replies make an assumption that is not true most of the time: They assume that when a developer uses a library/program to create a product and then discovers that it is GPL'd, that this develop goes along and GPL's his product as well. This is not how it works.
In reality, developers that are worth their money check the license beforehand, and when there's the GPL involved for a product that's not planned to be GPL'd, either the library/program is not used, or the whole project is sc
byNursie ( 632944 ) writes:
Which is exactly the aim of the GPL license. Don't want to play? Then you aren't part of the community and you can do it yourself.
Your example, by the way, is disingenuous. Counterexample - The developer finds something he wants to use and it's BSD licensed. His company take it, modify it and put it into the firmware of the router they're selling. There's no obligation to open anything so the WAG54G community never happens. Net loss for progress.
byam 2k ( 217885 ) writes:
You're right, but then tell it by its real name: It's not about choice or freedom, it's about building community. Using the GPL means sacrificing the developer's freedom to build a community around a software product.
This is important, since it also gives you a hint about what's needed for building a working GPL product.
For example, take Google Wave: Google threw it out there, published the server source (maybe as GPL, I don't know), documented the protocol, and then did nothing more. Did a community build
bynext_ghost ( 1868792 ) writes:
Your argument is flawed because it reduces the entire world to just one situation. Closing the source forces everybody else to reinvent the wheel. Think for a while about this: In the GPL world, everything needs to be invented and implemented exactly once and anybody can improve what was implemented before. In the closed source world, everybody has to start from scratch and works on his own hook. Even if the total amount of resources in the closed source world is more than thousand times bigger than in the
byhey! ( 33014 ) writes:
I don't see why this point has to keep coming up, because it's quite simple.
BSD maximizes the individual freedom of each immediate recipient of source code under that license. GPL maximizes the minimum net freedom enjoyed by the community of binary recipients as a whole.
Another way of thinking about it is that BSD provides a broader range of possible total freedom among ALL binary recipients than GPL does. They may have more freedom (including making proprietary works) or less freedom (because most recipie
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