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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignmentbyPrimeBOT (talk) 13:09, 16 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
What does the last clause (part after the comma) of this sentence actually mean?: "A Bar at the Folies-Bergère is a modern version of Velazquez's Las Meninas (1656-7), the most profound meditation on the portrait. I"
(And for that matter, what's the word "I" doing there?) PiCo 12:42, 28 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
It means that Manet's painting is the most profound meditation on Velazquez's that we know. What's unclear about that? frecklegirl 15:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
How is it a meditation on Las Meninas? It seems completely different to my (admittedly untutored) eye. Lisiate 22:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)Reply
This slightly tutored eye came to the same conclusion: But for the use of mirrors, the connection between "Folies" and "Meninas" is not very strong. The paintings differ dramatically in many ways, not the least of which is this: The Velázquez offers a magical window into the artist's life at the royal court, the Manet focuses on one blasé woman tending bar. I think the Manet is less a meditation on Velázquez than it is a creative response to Paris night life. I deleted the reference. But then, there was a lot that needed editing here.
--JNW 13:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)Reply
It looks like a mirror to me, as shown by the border around it. Clearly, there is a red wall, upon which a large mirror with a wooden frame is hung. Otherwise, it is two women, with a small red wall with gold / wooden trim on top between them. Strange place for a bar - directly next to an overhang. It makes much more sense if it is a mirror, but of course that would imply that Manet was not quite as sharp at age 50 (a year before his death). It looks to me that he got drunk in said bar, and the fat lady in the mirror started looking more slim. -- Anonymous DSW —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.112.144.129 (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2008 (UTC)Reply
Oops. After doing a little research, I found the comparison to Las Meninas is not uncommon in the literature on this painting, so I have restored the reference. In the words of Emily Litella, 'never mind'...
There's no point in editing articles if what you add (an explanation of the problem with perspective in this picture, with a reference) is going to be removed. Why did someone do that? Sorry, I failed to sign my edit. Is that a big enough problem to remove content? I notice that whoever removed my contribution replaced it with original research regarding whores and product placement. Truly, we are surrounded by morons. No wonder I personally prefer to be surrounded by bottles of liquor. 24.27.31.170 (talk) 16:19, 1 March 2011 (UTC) EricReply
There is nothing wrong with this. It explains the major issue with this painting. If you have a source that disagrees with this, please edit the article to include your source, or discuss it here, instead of removing what I have contributed without comment. As it says on the history page: "If you are undoing an edit that is not vandalism, explain the reason in the edit summary. Do not use the default message only." 24.27.31.170 (talk) 02:25, 2 March 2011 (UTC) EricReply
References
As the article syas, the bottles of beer on the counter are identifiable as bottles of Bass by the distinctive red triangle. This was the first corporate logo to be registered in the UK (perhaps the world) in 1870. Does this painting, then, contain the first image of a corporate logo in a (major) work of art?
213.123.248.238 (talk) 11:16, 18 July 2013 (UTC)Alan Livesey, EdinburghReply
In the page for Manet, where the painting is, naturally, referred, the title is given as LE bar, rather than UN bar. I have also seen it elsewhere, in television and art appreciation books, as LE bar. Searching the internet, there is both UN and LE, but one or the other could be secondary from Wiki, rather than a true source itself. Which, then, is the correct title? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.59.238 (talk) 23:05, 25 October 2013 (UTC)Reply
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The article presents Malcolm Park's theory unchallenged, but there has been a significant critique of it by Thierry de Duve, here:- https://nonsite.org/article/intentionality-and-art-historical-methodology-a-case-study The main snag is this:- "In the painting, the reflection of the group of bottles on the left side of the counter seems ill-placed: it should be near the counter’s edge that is the closest to the spectator, and not the furthest away. Park demonstrates that this group in fact sees its reflection pushed to the right, hidden by that of the barmaid. The bottles we see in the left part of the mirror actually form another group, an S-shaped garland that remains entirely outside the visual pyramid—a perfectly coherent solution, given the off-center position of the spectator, except that it forces Park to considerably stretch the bar on its left, with several unpleasant consequences."
Specifically, Park's theory requires the left end of the bar to extend much further than its reflection shows it to go. Park's reconstruction photo itself embodies a Manet-like bit of legerdemain: the bottles seen on the left, in the mirror, are not the ones seen in direct vision, as those are blocked by the model's own reflection. Instead another group, off-camera to the left, stands in. But we can see that the bar in the painting doesn't go far enough to allow room for that trick. The bottles are clearly meant to be the same group, consisting of grenadine, beer and champagne. And the end of the bar in the painting is at a much steeper apparent angle than in Park's photo. It would project to a vanishing point in the middle of the model's face, suggesting that the viewer is directly in front of her and not offset to the right. Park deals with this in his dissertation by claiming that the bar top must be trapezoidal in shape, so that that angle is deceptive. (Of course, the original sketch shows the right-hand end of the bar and it seems rectangular, not trapezoidal, but the viewpoint is very clearly offset right, and the model is clearly turned that way. The sketch still involves trickery: the reflected man in the hat must be well to our left, and the model is looking past us to our right, but in the mirror she appears to be looking at the man. https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.8.html/2015/impressionist-modern-art-evening-sale-l15006 In the final painting, Manet moved the apparent viewpoint and the model's gaze to the centre, which is more arresting, but he kept the offset reflections from that sketch so the model didn't obscure them.) Although Park's theory is a nice one, and is much repeated on the internet, it doesn't resolve the picture's paradoxes quite as neatly as it purports to. And as Park himself points out, the reflection of the auditorium is impossible: the bars were on the ground floor, so the mirror would actually show the stalls and the slope of the stairs around the side, not the loge level. Manet has moved the bar up to the mezzanine just for effect. He has also eliminated the railing at the edge of the bar area because it would get in the way. Khamba Tendal (talk) 12:26, 1 March 2019 (UTC)Reply
The original painting has been replaced with an ms paint sketch of people playing Fortnite. I recommend you revert the changes. 142.196.210.65 (talk) 23:03, 27 March 2019 (UTC)Reply
" By including a dish of oranges in the foreground, Manet identifies the barmaid as a prostitute, according to art historian Larry L. Ligo, who says that Manet habitually associated oranges with prostitution in his paintings.[7]"
The fact that the fruits in the picture are obviously tangerines makes this already dubious association between oranges and prostitution pointless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.23.16.247 (talk) 18:44, 30 January 2022 (UTC)Reply