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PanARMENIAN.Net - Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan convened an extraordinary meeting of diplomatic representatives of the countries and international organizations accredited to Yerevan following the extradition by Hungary and further pardon by the Azerbaijani leader of Armenian officer Gurgen Margaryan’s killer Ramil Safarov. Addressing the meeting participants, President Sargsyan described Hungary’s act as unforgivable and declared that Yerevan severs diplomatic relations with Budapest. "We have been closely following all the developments around that criminal. This issue has been discussed during each and every meeting with the President, Speaker of the Parliament, Foreign Minister and Ambassador of Hungary, and we have been assured on numerous occasions that such a transfer or a return of a criminal to Azerbaijan was excluded. We have received that same response to our requests during our contacts just a few days ago with the representatives of the Hungarian Foreign Ministry and Parliament. But as a result of perfidious developments the murderer has turned up in Baku and got released," President Sargsyan said. "With their joint actions the authorities of Hungary and Azerbaijan have opened the door for the recurrence of such crimes. With this decision they convey a clear message to the butchers. The slaughterers hereafter are well aware of impunity they can enjoy for the murder driven by ethnic or religious hatred," he said. "I officially announce that as of today we suspend diplomatic relations and all official contacts with Hungary.We expect a precise and unambiguous response by all our partners with regard to this incident.Anyone who tolerates this, will tomorrow be held responsible to history," the President concluded.
stupid (Viktor Orban) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.72.171.176 (talk) 19:42, 31 August 2012 (UTC)Reply
Hi everyone,
A couple of things on the article. By the way whoever did it, congratulations on the job well done.
Sorry for the long post.
milfor
Just a comment. Certainly fides means faith in latin, but the name of the party is more to do with the intials of: Alliance of Young Democrats.
"Faith" as the translation of fides (from a dictionary of foreign words) was advertised in their own first campaign at the beginning of the 90s. Adam78 12:40, 31 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
1. Sure 2. Let's talk about this further on the Fidesz talk page (and could you link the quote from Fidesz site, please) 3. it's a shortcut. There are two main sides in Hungary: left and right, but these labels are a little bit obscure: "right" wants to stop privatisation, nationalise some services, etc., while "left" uses neo-liberal rhetorics many times. 4. This is a very sensitive political issue -- mentioning it or not mentioning it. Let's keep the page for now as is, I think. --Sicboy 23:04, 4 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
Re-he-heally now? He is Protestant? I thought he was a good Catholic schoolboy. Well, what do I know, right? Anyway, I think the term "liberal conservative" is fair enough as long as you explain that the party is socially conservative but economically liberal. --PistolPower 17:48, 5 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
Political analysts believe that the speeches of Mr. Orban in 1989, and also the foundation of the Federation of Young Democrats was due to the conspiration of the communist friends, Mr. Horvath and Mr. Pozsgay, for extending their power even after the democratic changes in Hungary. Recently it is also widespread believed that Mr. Orban was an intelligence agent of the Horvath-Pozsgay ruling communist team against the democratic opposition "SZDSZ" (Allience of Free Democrats) during the transition process from the communist dictatorship to democracy in Hungary.
Lol...who are these political analysts man? Cite it properly, sources, names etc. unless what you say doesn't count as a factually supported note. I could easily think you may have just made it out yourself...
Also this is true for the whole article on Viktor Orbán. There are CLAIMS, mostly based on OPINIONS that are masked as facts and truth. No way can it count as valid. Moreover, the referential material is not cited properly, with proper links and the like, and I couldn't actually find the relevant parts in them.
So: Find REAL sources and POWERFUL ones, or else I will find it hard to believe what you have just scribbled here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.97.83.51 (talk) 15:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)Reply
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/eu-gipfel-ukraine-migration-102.html
Illusionary hopes of Euro politicians! “The Ukrainians / Ukr's will sacrifice their lives. For money, food, weapons, ammunition, grenades, rockets. For the peace of Europeans. “
Voice of Reason in the European Parliament .91.183.159.198 (talk) 16:27, 25 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
User with IP 80.98.233.132 is from Budapest, Hungary, node name catv-5062e984.catv.broadband.hu, (Chello Broadband), Network: UPC Magyarorszag Kft. Cable installed, cable internet... Budapest confirmed.
-To do: Find out location, get pictures of the place, possible target list...
Hey. User:Revolutionary here. Please tell me if I've done something wrong with the new section, "Prime Minister of Hungary". I'm sorry if I've botched up the "Life after Government" section, but this is my fault for not having enough resources now.
Oh, and please, someone tell me how to spell this Istvan Csurka fellow's name.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.204.212.105 (talk) 15:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)Reply
I'm going to perform a POV cleanup on the article, as I found it biased.
Such statements as: "the opposition largely remained at sixes and sevens, unable to attract political support in light of Fidesz's overwhelmingly professional political communication campaign." (stating the cause for lack of support as the opponent's communication is highly misleading, since we cannot know the reason why voters decided to favor one party more. The communication argument seems to be false though, since Fidesz did not and does not have the support of most of the media).
"Governments in adjacent states, particularly Romania, were insulted by the so-called status law, which they saw as a direct interference in their domestic affairs." (It should be noted that many neighbouring nations, like Slovakia, Ukraine or Serbia have such similar laws)
"The patriotic propaganda of the conservative government led by Fidesz–Hungarian Civic Party stirred emotions among both its supporters and its opponents andcaused an unprecedented cultural-political division in the country." (We cannot state as a fact what caused the division, because both sides claim the other had caused it. Personally I seem to recall a quite mild campaign from Fidesz, because they were leading the polls by as much as 10% before the 2002 elections)
"For their part, MIEP and Fidesz challenged the government's legitimacy, demanded a recount, complained of election fraud, and generally kept the country in election mode until the October municipal elections." (This is actually a blatant lie. Orban accepted the defeat at election night and Fidesz didn't demand a recount. They did complain about election fraud, but nothing as substantial to significantly influence the outcome of the elections. Lumping together MIEP with Fidesz is like equating a moderate republican with Ann Coulter)
"As the Medgyessy government inherited an economy on the downturn, the slowdown was generated by (among other things) excessive state spending during his predecessor's tenure." (This is absolutely incorrect. Even the left-leaning Economist admits that Orbán had run the economy well.)
"He was also lambasted by opponents for an arrogant communication style, alleged fiscal mismanagement (pointing to the 2000 two-year budget and perceived failure to cut the budget deficit), damaging scandals during his government, excessive negative campaigning against the opposition and nationalism (but his supporters see him as a patriot). He was also accused of neglecting the troubled relations between Hungary and Romania.
Fidesz has been confused in its attemps to consolidate its right wing positioning with populist left-wing propaganda. This lack of clear direction cost Orbán the election in 2006." (I do not think that these allegations should be left there by themselves, they either should be completely removed or expanded with the supporters' take on the issue.)
Please, do not claim things without reference or without adding whose _opinion_ you're claiming, because it might seem that they are facts when they are only opinions.
Comments are welcome. A beautiful mind 14:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
Under the caption of Fidesz, I found: "It was founded in 1988, named simply Fidesz (Fiatal Demokraták Szövetsége, Alliance of Young Democrats), originally as a youthful libertarian party against communism" Nothing about fides, as a latin word.
I have added an『Viktor Orbán in the media』section (domestic-pro-gov, domestic-anti-gov, domestic-extreme-right, foreign press). Since current hungarian political landscape is so antagonistic and divided by massive trenches, it is virtually impossible to make a well-referenced section on this topic. I tried to depict what someone who listens to lot of radio, reads lot of net, reads several papers finds in all. I spent significant time to compose it, make it better if you wish, but deleting it would be stupid since the topic exists and is very worthy of description. Modern politics is highly media-oriented, especially in Huhgary it is decisive, since democracy is only 16 years old and all magyar people are "genetically receptive" to antagonization (cannot say it any milder). We call this unfortunate phenomenon『turáni átok』or "the curse of Turan". Media has huge responsibility in how people perceive domestic politics.
It should be considered that conservative media has limited distribution in Hungary due to regulatory and market realities. The only two over-the-air nationwide commercial TV channels TV2 and RTLKLUB are both pro-gov (liberal), having thanked their long licence extension to the reigning gov't coalition (RTLklub has the famed Orbán-Fidesz-mocking "Heti Hetes" talkshow, TV2 intellectually anti-Fidesz, less active). State-run on-air MTV1 is well, state-run,,they did not even show themselves being besieged and torched by mob after the famed Gyurcsany-speech of late Sept 2006. State-run but patriotic and minority oriented DunaTV is statellite/CATV only, thus having limited distribution. Same for HirTV, the hyperactive on-site news channel of the right-wing opposition. The MSZP has its own CATV station called ATV, which tries to counter HirTV, but carries studio talk instead of on-site news. Any porn channel is legal here and unlimitedly available on CATV, satellite or net. This entire situation will not change until digital TV kills analog TV (about 2009-2012).
State radio station Kossuth is mixed, more right-wing than liberal, but few listen to it anyhow. Overwhelmingly huge daily newspaper Nepszabadsag (NOL) is braindead pro-govt. Right-wing daily Magyar Nemzet (MNO) has problems with finding market funds to compete with NOL (which has color print), due to frequent fascism allegations. The very influential weekly HVG had the top boss editior replaced spring 2006 (allegedly to aid in MSZP-SZDSZ election campaign) and HVG is now serviantly pro-govt. Both HVG and NOL are owned by foreign firms with strong european liberal links.
Far-right media exists mostly on the net, they simply do not have funds to print or air anything.
All in all, it is much easier to say "Dirty Viktor Orban!" and have it heard nationwide then praise him. 213.178.114.82 19:59, 11 November 2006 (UTC)Reply
This sentence does not make much sense to me.『In far right-wing media, Viktor Orbán often earns criticism for not doing enough to uproot the remnants of communism from Hungarian politics (i.e. he did not supplant the MSZP party while Prime Minister). 』What was he supposed to do, ban the Socialist Party? Gsandi 12:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)Reply
I have reedited the Orbán Viktor in Media section. It formerly contained material which could only be disputed in context with the general perception of reality of the writer, in the comprehensionless denial of e.g. effect causing nature of the Liberal Party, which can simply be shown in the constitutional modification of the abolition of the regular army with the establishing of a sole professional army, and the Constitutional modification of local goverment elections to one where mayors are elected directly and in which the whole election take only one turn. Political commentators said they didn't get the confidence of the people to form the first government of the republic because they represented too radical program and pace. I agree with that that that party's policies become insensitive and extreme-capitalist of larger immediate profit which generates in time so large opposition in the society that sooner or later it is removed by force. Their current 1% shows where dismantling the guarantee of minimum level of existence, and transpassability of social hierarchy by trying to eliminate state distribution of wealth in the matters of health care and higher education reflects their narcissistic cynism. The comment on the legitimacy of the governing parties was solely the oppinion of the writer, which did not even cite sources, which is not surprising as an analytic mentality instead of a reality-hating histerical one is necessary for that, and the inserted sources by me show how perfectly it could be found by that mentality. Far-right ideology of the source is not reinstated, as it simply disregards the fact that three kinds of people were former Workers' party members: those who believed in socialism, these were the smallest fraction, those who disregarded the system and only wanted to advance in the society to become somebody, and those who entered it first to achieve technical results, then when they gradually got the possibility to dismantle the state-socialism, they did it under the disguise of propaganda of technical modifications. Consequently the idiot demand for punishing everyone who was on that party's list is a disregard to the human achievments of more than the third of those scientists, academy members, sociologists, and others, who didn't only lack the possibility to fully realise their goals before the system change but couldn't even say what they represented openly.—Preceding unsigned comment added by N.11.6 (talk • contribs) 22:46, 14 August 2009 (UTC)Reply
Now that Orbán became PM of Hungary, I think this article should be improved to a much better quality. The current "media" section is a frustrated anti-Orbán text being far from neutral. I think that whole section should be cut out. It mentions many historically unimportant trivia and pure nonsense, and is much too long compared to its relevance. Qorilla (talk) 21:10, 29 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Added Oct 2010: It needs far more than a mere "cleanup"! For instance the critical change of Fidesz's politics, led by OV, from left-liberal to right wing Christian nationalist, is only mentioned in passing. This alone deserves its own section.
Then there is the amazing black hole where the 2006 election should be (again, this is only mentioned in passing). The ego battle between Orbán and Dávid, the loss of an election many thought Fidesz would win easily, the bizarre stand of OV when he said vote for me, but I won't become prime minister, and then the final destruction of MDF, to give Fidesz complete dominance of the centre-right in Hungary. These are all critical periods in OV's passage from young democrat to PM with dictatorial powers, yet they are not mentioned!
The way OV and Fidesz chose to behave between 2006 and 2010 - walking out whenever the MSZP PM rose to speak, the overwhelming anti-MSZP 'lies and Commies' propaganda campaign, etc - also needs a section of its own, as this period, and Fidesz's behaviour during it, effectively created the 'new' VO who is now such a powerful PM of Hungary.
In fact this article, as good as the early sections are, is so lacking in information about critical times in OV's career that it really should have one of those Wikepedia 'Only a stub' warnings on the front page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.152.49 (talk) 22:39, 11 October 2010 (UTC)Reply
Majority of foreign media in the world and opposition in Hungary refer to Victor Orban as populist right-wing politician. And not without reason. It is so because of his way of governing. I would say that his government sometimes seems to be a ultra right-wing one. However, I see that this could be biased. Therefore the term "right-wing" is the most accurate one. That's how we can describe his policies such as:
Victor Orban is a right-wing politician[1][2][3] Should you want to prove otherwise then give some relevant arguments supported by valid citations.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/05/hungary-one-party-rule - this one does refer to him as "As a rightwing populist" - but its a "commentisfree" opinionated editorial and not a WP:RS to label a living person as such. Off2riorob (talk) 12:14, 10 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/populist-premier--set-for-defeat-in--hungarian-election-657824.html - This one refers to his as "Hungary's populist Prime Minister, Viktor Orban" and says that, "as leader of Fidesz, he embarked upon rebrand-ing what had been a radical liberal party as a Christian conservative group," - they do not refer to him as a right wing politician at all. Off2riorob (talk) 12:07, 10 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/apr2011/hung-a26.shtml - this is a Socialist website and as such clearly opinionated in any way they describe anyone. Off2riorob (talk) 12:04, 10 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
As he is leader of what is described as a Centre right conservative party Fidesz - I am not certain we should be describing its leader as right wing - it stands to reason that he is also a cenre right conservative. I would like to get some more opinions from editors that are well informed on the differences. Off2riorob (talk) 12:01, 10 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
You cannot ask some other editors what they think, because they are just laymen and not political scientists. What they say can be just their opinion. However, we need facts, not opinions, in order to describe Victor Orban. That is why everybody who wants to describe Victor Orban as centre-right conservative politician has to support it with relevant citations otherwise it is just his opinion. 18hangar18 (talk) 13:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
I hope that you can understand my edits now. Kind regards --RJFF (talk) 20:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC)Reply
--Ltbuni (talk) 13:39, 8 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
The content on the recent constitution amendment is overtly long and much too detailed for this article. This article has to describe Orbán and his biography in a balanced way and not focus on some aspects, especially not slant towards recent news (WP:NOTNEWS, WP:RECENTISM). This has to be summarized and shortened significantly. This article is about the person Viktor Orbán and his life, and not about the latest constitution change. --RJFF (talk) 17:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
Oppinion?
Ltbuni (talk) 21:16, 26 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
There have been 3 attempts in the past week to insert a peace of info about his alleged/potential/suspected early carrier in the Communist Youth Organisation. As far as I know, it is a constant and unproved accusation - raised by Hungarian Socialists and Liberals - to smear him. I'd like to invite the editors concerned to shed light on this issue. If they got documents to prove their point, we eagerly extend the article. --Ltbuni (talk) 19:52, 5 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
--Ltbuni (talk) 07:40, 9 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
---This is off topic, but according to the Hungarian Wikipedia, Mr. Debreceni supported Orbán till 2004-2005, was his personal advisor between 1994-1996. He was a right-wing politician as well. He wrote his book in 2002. The point is that if two writers (Kende and Debreceni of 2002), with such different political opinions, give us the same info, we should accept that as true --Ltbuni (talk) 11:51, 9 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
I found another written source for his KISZ-leadership. Árpád Pünkösti, in his book, Szeplőtelen fogantatás, writes the following (Sorry, I write this in Hungarian for those - probably Hungarian - users who can't help "upgrading" this article with his Communist past):『Elsőben és másodikban OV alapszervezeti KISZ-titkár volt. Büszke volt rá, hogy felvették a KISZ-be, hogy Kilián-próbát tett, de amikor napirendre került, hogy reformokra lenne szükség, jobban kellene csinálni az egészet, azok között volt, akik komolyan vették a változtatást is... A nagy KISZ-ezésben végül új alapszervezetet akartak létrehozni. A névadó nem Kun Béla lett volna, hanem Hermann javaslatára az első magyar anarchista, a szabadságharcos Kászonyi Dániel. Ez már nem ment. Ekkor az alsósokkal is összefogva Hermann, Incze Zsolt és OV elhatározta, hogy a diákparlamentre igazi értékelést készítenek a KISZ-életéről. Felosztották a munkát és a maga területén mindenki vizsgálódott, közvélemény-kutatásfélét is végzett, aztán a küldöttgyűlésn kipakoltak. A párttitkár állítólag ezt súgta az igazgató fülébe: ez provokáció, ezek minket akarnak kicsinálni! A KISZ-patronáló tanárnő sírt: botrány majd mosolyszünet.』Árpád Pünkösti: Szeplőtelen fogantatás, pp. 138-139. Népszbadság Könyvek (!!!!) 2005. The book is reliable: based on interviews, documents, sources are indicated, therefor they can be checked. Árpád Pünkösti is a journalist, sociologist, has an own wiki-article in Hungarian .
Concerning the Canadian-Hungarian Democratic Charter and Mr. Harnad: The Viktor Orbán article has a sub-section, dealing with the international criticism of the Fourth Amendment - according to the Canadian-Hungarian Democratic Charter and Mr. Harnad's "Democracy in Hungary" sub-section, they have a leading role in this criticism, so I felt that is appropriate to add them to the See Also section. But I don't insist. --Ltbuni (talk) 18:28, 12 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
Does either of the biographers write something about Orban's development from a communist youth member/secretary to an anti-communist activist? The article would gain if it included something about his early political development and influence. At the moment, it focusses too strongly and too detailedly on his time as party leader and prime minister while it has only scarce information about his youth and early career. --RJFF (talk) 16:02, 13 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
I'm on it, but it may take a while... --Ltbuni (talk) 18:04, 13 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
We have 3 sources: I. Árpád Pünkösti
Pünkösti writes that in 1979, when VO was 17, with his 9 friends he formed some kind of study-circle: they listened to the Free Europe Radio, they had discussion on hot topics, such as the Soviet invasion of Afganisthan. He met in the circle Lajos Simicska, and Zsolt Incze who were openly against the Communist regime, The circle got busted, someone revealed their activity, but the teachers did not punish them. But this whole thing was very exciting to them. Viktor Orbán himself said that: "those boys said such things against the regime, against the Communism, that I almost dropped my teeth. They were sceptical about everything. Within 6 months, I became the opposite I had been previously. (p. 142.) VO was admitted to the University of ELTE, but first he had to do his national service in Zalaegerszeg - he found it humiliating, aggressive and senseless - he became radical there: once he hit an officer (145); in a protest against the inhuman treatment of the recruits he shaved off his head hair (147). In 1982, the Hungarian Communist Secret Police, (Section III/III) tempted him into collaboration, but he did not become a snitcher (149).
II. Kende is basically the same.
III. Debreceni: I don't know what he wrote, I don't have the book. Anyone? Norden1990? --Ltbuni (talk) 22:26, 13 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
A year ago, a French newspaper (Les Echos) claimed that he had said that, he is partly Jewish.
http://www.lesechos.fr/18/01/2012/LesEchos/21104-036-ECH_viktor-orban--l-infrequentable.htm
Hungarian newspapers later claimed, that it was wrong, and the Les Echos promised to fix their article:
http://hungariandigest.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/french-paper-orban-is-jewish/
But despite the promise of the Les Echos, they did not correct the article. Could anyone provide us with reliable source? --Ltbuni (talk) 19:07, 6 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
Considering that Fidesz and Orbán himself is oftenly accused for supporting or at least tolerating antisemitism, this is significant information, especially since this is the first time a hungarian government is doing so. Unfortunately, I only have german language sources for this (Hungarian Voice, Die Welt)SüsüASárkány (talk) 11:49, 2 February 2014 (UTC)Reply
Hello all;
I feel this is a pretty important page considering the Hungarian political climate. Orban is probably the most important figure of 21st century Hungary, so it'd probably be best not to have half the article blocked off as "copyright violation". Why is this there and how can we solve this? The same problem is witnessed on the page about the recent elections in Hungary. KFan II (talk) 20:50, 28 April 2014 (UTC)Reply
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentencesorphrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators willbeblocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 19:36, 7 May 2014 (UTC)Reply
"According to him, a new way of Hungarian state organisation, following the era of liberal state – respecting the values of Christianity, freedom and human rights, – can make Hungary competitive again. Within days, numerous western media outlets, international leaders, academics, and foreign policy experts condemned Orban for his statements and called upon the EU and NATO to address Orbán's alarming statements"
I think this is just missing the point. All the media criticism about the speech was not Mr Orban's views on liberalism, but on the fact that he identified China, Russia and Turkey as examples to follow. --K0zka (talk) 19:21, 26 August 2014 (UTC)Reply
The controversy section of this article reads objectionably like a platform for Orban supporters. Most of the section takes the form, "His critics say x, but actually not-x" I think the same basic information should be presented there, but it should be worded less tendentiously: "His critics say x. However, his supporters say/point out y. Some critics later retracted their claims."68.63.148.22 (talk) 12:49, 21 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
Hergilei, I am sure that the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project is a highly respectable independent civil organization, as it is proven by the geographical scope of its activities (Eastern Europe, Central America, Caucasus and Central Asia which suggest that these are the regions where corruption and organized crime exist in our world). Nevertheless, I think that its recent nominations do not meet the criteria Wikipedia:Notability (events), especially if we also take into account Wikipedia:Recentism. Borsoka (talk) 04:12, 2 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
"Recentism is writing or editing without a long-term, historical view, thereby inflating the importance of a topic that has received recent public attention and possibly resulting in: Articles overburdened with documenting controversy as it happens. Articles created on flimsy, transient merits. The muddling or diffusion of the timeless facets of a subject, previously recognized by Wikipedia consensus." Notability states: "Within Wikipedia, notability is a test used by editors to decide whether a topic can have its own article." I haven't created an article for the topic but added a single sentence. The OCCRP is notable given that it's a large group of journalists. A single sentence does not overburden the Orban article. Hergilei (talk) 12:17, 2 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
--Ltbuni (talk) 15:51, 2 January 2015 (UTC)Reply
I suggest that politically driven statements about a PM are not so important that we should present them in a WP article. If the leader of the opposition accused the British, French, German, ... PM or Minister of Finance or Minister of Foreign affairs, or ... of stupidity should we soon include his/her POV in the relevant article? Borsoka (talk) 08:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)Reply
Hi. I'm expanding a section in Orbán's page, specifically, the section that details his second term. There is a note on the main page that reads "this section requires expansion." I don't want to remove that without consent, but when I finish expanding the section, I hope someone can take it down if it is seemingly long enough. Thanks.AndersenLjundberg (talk) 22:53, 15 May 2015 (UTC)User:AndersenLjundberg 15 May 2015 6:53 PM EDT.Reply
This para reads:
The most stormy incidents happened in 2001. That April Magyar Hírlap made public a letter written by a reader that stated, "the killing of Orbán would do good to our nation". Also that month on TV channel RTL Klub, reporter Tamás Frei[60] interviewed a Russian hitman, asking him for how much money he would kill the Hungarian prime minister (then Orbán). Right-wingers thought it was a provocative question. Later it turned out that the interviewed person wasn't a real hitman, but an actor paid by Frei.[61] After this scandal, RTL Klub apologised to Orbán, and the Luxembourgian owners of the channel began an inquiry. Frei subsequently lost his job.
I am unsure how notatble a readers letter really is or a staged stunt by a reporter. Perhaps people with more familiarity with Hungarian politics could weigh in here but I would think that this para should be deleted. GregKaye 05:30, 4 September 2015 (UTC)Reply
I nominate the following paragraph for deletion:
"Some[who?] consider[citation needed] the election of Dr. László Sólyom as the new President of Hungary to be the supernumerary fulcrum of the party. Sólyom was endorsed by Védegylet, an NGO consisting of people from the whole political spectrum. Sólyom's activity does not entirely overlap with the conservative ideals and he championed for elements of both political wings with a selective, but conscious choice of values.[35]"
It is nearly unintelligible in the context of a biographical Wikipedia article. Others have already noted its formal deficiencies. It is empty of all substance. The only citation in it links to a non-English website. From Google translate the best I can infer is that the citation is an opinion piece. PS: I do not know how the 3 footnotes below were inserted into my comment. I have nothing to do with them. Da5id403 (talk) 18:03, 24 December 2015 (UTC)Reply
I know that the general elections in Hungary can give rise to heated debates, driven by emotions, but I think we should insist on the facts and especially on WP:NPOV. Instead of writing of Orbán's "hate" campaign against Soros, or Soros's "hate" campaign against Orbán, we could write of campaigns. Similarly, we should not write of investigations against Orbán, if he is not subject to any investigations. Of course, we could mention that a company which is connected to his son-in-law is suspected to commit financial crimes if we can verify this statement by a reference to reliable sources. Sincerely, I would not regard newspapers reliable sources for this purpose, because they are obviously biased against or towards Orbán, so they can be described as primary sources that demonstrat the views of the (voluntary or paid) supporters or opponents of Orbán. Borsoka (talk) 03:15, 1 March 2018 (UTC)Reply
The following (hidden in the article for now) two excerpts are examples of speculation, innuendo, POV and OR, which I believe should be removed from the article:Quis separabit? 20:15, 17 June 2018 (UTC)Reply
1) <blockquote>Fidesz former economic director and a powerful media oligarch, [[Lajos Simicska]], stated on 8 March 2015 that he might have been an informer for the communist secret service. Although thousands of files pertaining to secret service agents were destroyed by the communist government, Simicska speculated that Russia might have extensive copies of Hungarian secret service documents containing Orbán's records which it might have used to blackmail him into cooperation.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://budapestbeacon.com/politics/simicska-viktor-orban-may-have-been-a-communist-informer/20480|title=Simicska: Viktor Orbán may have been a communist informer|work=The Budapest Beacon|author=Csaba Tóth|accessdate=12 April 2018}}</ref> Orbán rejected these allegations as "absurd and ridiculous", and recounted that he was accused of being an informant many times previously, and all these allegations had been false.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/hungary/11499564/Viktor-Orban-denies-being-communist-informer-during-days-of-one-party-state-in-Hungary.html|title=Viktor Orban denies being communist informer during days of one-party state in Hungary|work=The Telegraph|author=Matthew Day|accessdate=12 April 2018}}</ref></blockquote>
and
2) <blockquote>In February 2018, ''[[The New York Times]]'' editorialized that Orbán's "Hungary is now considered a democracy in sharp, worrisome decline. Through legislative fiat and force of will, Mr. Orban has transformed the country into a political greenhouse for an odd kind of soft autocracy, combining crony capitalism and far-right rhetoric with a single-party political culture."<ref name=":0"/></blockquote>
References
This article -- specifically the『Second term as Prime Minister (2010–present)』section -- needs to be expanded and reorganized. For example, only the first six paragraphs of the section actually discuss Orban's actions during his second tenure as PM, and they provide very little detail. There has been a lot of discussion about the actions Orban has taken as PM, so I think we could easily expand this section and add more detail. We should also split the section up into sub-sections for each area of policy being discussed.
Also, the bottom six paragraphs of the section (which give a lot more information) should be split into a separate "Public image and views" section, as they really have nothing to do about what he actually did as PM but about his political philosophy/orientation. The section about his tenure as PM should just stick to what he did as PM. Overall, I think this article should be modeled after an article like David Cameron or another PM/President article. --1990'sguy (talk) 02:14, 5 July 2018 (UTC)Reply
@Amanda Portman:, I highly appreciate your attempt to provide a summary of the main points of Orbán's critics, because it could be an important part of this article. My first concern is that you applied highly biased sources. Yes, Orbán regards Soros as one of his principal opponents, and Soros also regards Orbán as a main opponent of his political purposes. You can easily find articles in Soros owned NYT (and other media financed by him) describing Orbán as a Nazi or an anti-Semitic politician, while rightist media in Hungary often imply that Soros as a psychopath. I think we should not regard these articles reliable sources. My second concern is that you inserted pieces of information in the article which are not verified by the cited source. For instance, Mészáros is not described as the "richest man in Hungary in all time". You may not know, but Hungary was established more than a 1,000 years ago, while Forbes started to publish its list of the richest Hungarians only about 20 years ago. Finally, I assume you do not understand Hungarian.『Orbán egy geci』is actually a rude statement, but it is also ambivalent. For instance, I am quite happy that our prime minister is "geci", because only a "geci" person can govern a small country in a "geci" world. I would like to ask you to slightly modify the text and try to find less biased sources. Borsoka (talk) 16:19, 3 January 2019 (UTC)Reply
@Borsoka:, I also appreciate you would like to discuss the modifications. I see your point about "the richest man of all time". We can’t even compare his fortune to another fortune from the middle age as the life, in general, was too different from today’s life. I will improve that sentence when I have time unless you would like to. Regarding the NYT, let’s ignore what I think of the newspaper or George Soros. With that link, I didn’t want to discuss or support whether Orbán is a Nazi or not. That cite was only to support that several People’s Party members stated that Orbán/Fidesz should be removed from the party. I don’t mind if we use another cite(s) for this fact. Amanda Portman
It is written that "In 1989, Orbán received a scholarship from the Soros Foundation". The issue is that this foundation was created on April 1993... This page is full of lies anyway.
There is a serious flaw in the introduction, in the part "Hungary has experienced democratic backsliding, shifting towards authoritarianism". This is a subjective statement, and should - if it deserves to stand - read "Hungary is said to have". In any case the sources are the NYT, Washington Post and The Economist, all of which are anti-Orban papers. I tried to correct it but somebody undid it, saying that the sources are 'reliable'. It sticks out like a sore thumb. 183.83.137.243 (talk) 09:37, 17 February 2020 (UTC)Reply
2020 by elections are NOT SUSPENDED Bandasaka (talk) 09:51, 29 May 2020 (UTC)Reply
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Trump of hungary. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 30#Trump of hungary until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 00:53, 30 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
Paleontologist99,
he did not promote that theory as such namely, and anyway would not make him a conspiracy theorist.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:59, 4 November 2020 (UTC))Reply
Fenetrejones,
no that category is especially contains far-right/extreme viewholders, regarding the traditional Hungarian nationalism, which is not part of this subject, hence no consensus for addition.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:16, 2 December 2020 (UTC))Reply
User Norden1990 just removed[3] this part: "In January 2021, Orbán hailed as a national hero Endre Franko, a pilot who served in the Hungarian division "Pumas" under the command of Nazi Germany during World War II, who fought against Soviet and US airforce."[4]
How this could be this "irrelevant"?--Mhorg (talk) 13:30, 7 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
historical revisionism of the Fidesz government,
under the Christian-conservative Orbán government... ‘future memories’ are being constructed and sustained by revisionist history writing,
Hungary’s Fidesz government... has indulged in outrageous historical revisionism, etc. Perhaps Jobbik does the same thing but I don't think sources would support such an agnostic formulation when most sources explicitly name the political party and government responsible for revisionism. Admittedly, this feature does not distinguish the Fidesz goverment too much from most other nationalistic governments from Turkey to Estonia. (t · c) buidhe 06:46, 11 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
One sentence in the opening is this:
Under his control it became the most centralized, most homogeneous and most disciplined party in Hungarian history.
Without good citations to back this up, it seems like someone's opinion. And superlatives are rarely anything more than qualitative TiddiesTiddiesTiddies (talk) 20:47, 2 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Fidesz became the most centralized, most homogeneous and most disciplined party in the country", referring to Hungary during Orbán's leadership of the party, not the obviously tendentious "in Hungarian history", so I've edited it accordingly. —Nizolan (talk · c.) 16:13, 3 June 2021 (UTC)Reply
I fully understand that Viktor Orbán is a controversial political figure and his actions are open to a wide range of interpretations and criticisms. I agree that we should present the typical accusations about him, however, I am against simply presenting the political opinions of one particular political side as facts. That would be against the neutrality principle of Wikipedia. Presenting the political opinions of cherry-picked biased "experts" would also violate neutrality. We should phrase the text in a way that it is acceptable for both the liberal and the conservative reader, irrespectively whether they like Mr. Orbán or not. Therefore, claims such as "causing a democratic backsliding" should be presented as accusations and not as facts (by the way: what would be the objective measure of this backsliding?). Moreover, this article is about VO and not about the Fidesz party which are not the same. This article should concentrate on VO. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 19:50, 27 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
In addition to using more precise wording, I suggest moving the "Anti-LGBT positions" sub-section into the『Second premiership (2010–present)』section. Assuming the former section focuses more on what Orban and his government have done regarding LGBT policy, as opposed to the reaction, it's more relevant to the "Second premiership" section than to "Criticism." --1990'sguy (talk) 13:24, 23 June 2021 (UTC)Reply
Orbán has promoted the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. Le Journal du Dimanche reported on Orbán's explicit adoption of the conspiracy theory, after he claimed; "if we let tens of millions of migrants travel to Europe from Africa and the Middle East... the young people of Western Europe will know the day when they will be in a minority in their own country".
There is no basis to characterize Orbán's rhetoric as promotion of a conspiracy theory. The Great Replacement conspiracy theory posits that there is a deliberate attempt by sociopolitical elites to minoritize white people and often gives various nefarious purposes as the motivation. Orbán was simply stating the inevitable demographic consequences of a liberal immigration policy (whatever liberals' motives may be for advocating such a policy), as seen in, say, the USA, and offering instead a restrictionist vision. Great Replacement rhetoric by definition must, at the very least, 1) blame the deliberate efforts of "elites" of some sort and 2) compare minoritization via immigration to ethnic cleansing, genocide, or something similar. Orbán does neither. Princeps linguae (talk) 21:21, 13 June 2021 (UTC)Reply
The lead misleadingly makes it seem as if it's an opinion held by some that there has been democratic backsliding under Orban's tenure and that this is a contested opinion. Academic sources describe it as a consensus: "Over the past decade, a scholarly consensus has emerged that that democracy in Central and Eastern Europe (CEE) is deteriorating (Kochenov 2008; Sedelmeier 2014), a trend often subsumed under the label “backsliding”... the new dynamics of backsliding are best illustrated by the one-time democratic front-runners Hungary and Poland"[14] News outlets such as the NY Times even just straight-up describe Orban as "Hungary’s authoritarian leader". This section[15] fleshes out in detail why. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 20:11, 7 August 2021 (UTC)Reply
"Orbán has promoted the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. Le Journal du Dimanche reported on Orbán's explicit adoption of the conspiracy theory, after he claimed; "if we let tens of millions of migrants travel to Europe from Africa and the Middle East... the young people of Western Europe will know the day when they will be in a minority in their own country".[155]"
That comment--"conspiracy theory"--consists solely of polemical editorializing. Besides, Lefties brag about inflicting "the Great Replacement" on white countries. It's only when their political enemies complain about it, that they smear it as a "conspiracy theory." 2603:7000:B23E:3056:F9D4:8FF:A168:BF8F (talk) 17:12, 10 August 2021 (UTC)Reply
In the first line of the article, the IPA transcription of his surname has the stress on the first syllable. But in the accompanying Wikimedia Commons audio file, the speaker places the stress on the second syllable. Which is correct? —172.58.230.201 (talk) 23:35, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
The fact that the first opening paragraphs mention all the possible negatives with a slew of anti-Hungarian outlets while ignoring that, for example, Orban currently holds the highest approval rating for any head of government in the Western world, is too much bias. What is the reason this was removed from the top? Why are the first few paragraphs at the top dedicated to portraying him as evil? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.10.112.125 (talk) 16:12, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
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Under "Criticism and Political Techniques, add the following.
In a speech delivered to the 31st Bálványos Summer Free University and Student Camp, Orbán expressed views that were later described as "a pure Nazi text" by his adviser, Zsuzsa Hegedus, in her letter of resignation.[1] In the speech, Orbán stated that『Migration has split Europe in two – or I could say that it has split the West in two. One half is a world where European and non-European peoples live together. These countries are no longer nations: they are nothing more than a conglomeration of peoples.』and "we are willing to mix with one another, but we do not want to become peoples of mixed-race.".[2] The speech drew widespread condemnation from both the Romanian foreign ministry and other European leaders. [3] Mastertigurius (talk) 14:01, 27 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
References
Done Thanks! Of the universe (talk) 18:33, 2 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
I think hungarians will edit this page multiple Tímea, but they are generally not very good in English (I'm a hungarian too), so edits made by them could contain misspelled words. Ayowhatsupp (talk) 13:03, 31 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
The lead is ridiculously long. Fakirbakir (talk) 17:50, 11 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
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Under the 'Irredentist and nativist aims' section Correct "instuitutions" to 'institutions' GenericUsername4 (talk) 21:53, 17 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
Yeah, hi from hungary. Please dont write stupid things all you said completly untrue. You can ask all of this from any hungarian citizens. Hope you get a true answer from a hungarian prespective. What other countries seen from hungary man…rly? There is no free press in hungary.Not even television. So i dont kbow what you talking about, what relations etc. You should FIRST CHECK “CEU” (central europian universiti) and how it got closed in hungary. Lets talk about that too? Lmao.. ridiculouse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1110:204:B17B:E0C1:5E87:DEC9:D8FD (talk) 14:33, 23 March 2023 (UTC)Reply
Orban is authoritarian but i dont think he is anti america he supports hungary’s membership in nato that is not a position any anti american politician holds. he also in the foreign policy article is mentioned that he supports the former president of the usa that is not a position an anti-america politician holds 93.106.131.145 (talk) 09:16, 26 September 2022 (UTC)Reply
"Over the summer, for instance, he declared that 'one of the principal supporters of the pressure imposed on Hungary related to immigration is the United States.' Orban believes unchecked migration will 'kill' Hungary. For some, like Simonyi, Orban’s anti-Americanism is but a cynical ploy that comes in handy in Hungary’s fractured political landscape ... but ultimately 'he respects America a great deal and understands, all in all, that a stronger relationship with America is a good thing.' Others suggest Orban needs an international scapegoat, and that the United States will fill this role so long as U.S. diplomats continue to criticize Hungary’s rollback of liberal democratic norms."--Tserton (talk) 09:10, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply
We haven't dedicated any section on his criticism on general leftism and LGBT people Nlivataye (talk) 07:08, 18 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
Ignore this, it's debunked false news. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hungary-s-viktor-orban-flees-budapest-s-huge-anti-government-protest/ar-AA13joV2 2A00:23C7:91AB:BC01:F826:5B44:7238:8BA9 (talk) 23:26, 25 October 2022 (UTC)Reply
Nepotism is quite a serious allegation so there should probably be more than one sentence on this. Can anyone provide more information? Slergs (talk) 01:49, 4 November 2022 (UTC)Reply
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Change "former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu" to "Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu" Coolguy337 (talk) 20:09, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply
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Change:
"Orbán was born on 31 May 1963 in Székesfehérvár into a rural middle-class family of Jewish origin[23], as the eldest son of the entrepreneur and agronomist Győző Orbán (born 1940)[24] and the special educator and speech therapist, Erzsébet Sípos (born 1944)."
To
"Orbán was born on 31 May 1963 in Székesfehérvár into a rural middle-class family[23], as the eldest son of the entrepreneur and agronomist Győző Orbán (born 1940)[24] and the special educator and speech therapist, Erzsébet Sípos (born 1944)."
These sources do not indicate that he was born into a family of Jewish origin. I found no sources elsewhere that he was born into a family of Jewish origin. Slangslang (talk) 17:57, 8 April 2023 (UTC)Reply
In this article I found a lot of punctuation marks inside quotation marks. The rule is that if the sentence is a quotation, the punctuation marks must be enclosed in quotation marks (e.g.: "We won a victory so big that you can see it from the moon, and you can certainly see it from Brussels."), while otherwise they must be after (e.g.: the EU was conducting an "LGBTQ offensive".). I think I have corrected all the errors, please correct them if you find any others. JackkBrown (talk) 01:27, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
Update: I don't think it's necessary anymore, I've fixed everything. JackkBrown (talk) 15:12, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
There is a line that says『Hisson Gáspár Orbán converted in 2014 to the Faith Church, a Pentecostal denomination, and is currently a minister who had heard from God and witnessed miraculous healings.』 So we just print it as fact that people are "hearing from" a god and witnessing miracles now? C'mon whoever locked this page, you can't state wild claims like that as fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.113.21.168 (talk) 16:10, 18 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
"For his own part, Orbán has issued harsh criticism of and has refused to implement multiple policies favored by the political leadership of the European Union in Brussels, which he alleges are anti-nationalist and anti-Christian. The E.U. has fired back by accusing Orbán of accepting their money anyway"
this text seems to use a strong language Cokolwiek2022 (talk) 11:28, 29 February 2024 (UTC)Reply