|
Adding/updating {{OnThisDay}} for 2019-05-29. Errors? User:AnomieBOT/shutoff/OnThisDayTagger
|
m Substing templates: {{Unsigned IP}}. See User:AnomieBOT/docs/TemplateSubster for info.
|
||
| (23 intermediate revisions by 12 users not shown) | |||
Line 1:
{{Talk header}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|vital=yes|1=
{{WikiProject Holidays
{{WikiProject Leona Lewis
{{WikiProject Library of Congress
{{WikiProject Songs
{{WikiProject United States
{{WikiProject Pritzker-GLAM|importance=low }}
}}
{{On this day|date1=2012-05-29|oldid1=494894804|date2=2017-05-29|oldid2=782498214|date3=2019-05-29|oldid3=899200001|date4=2022-05-29|oldid4=1090179347}}
==Martha Mears==
Line 111 ⟶ 112:
Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 07:10, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
== Citation added, request quote ==
{{u|Lebrsm}}, the citation that you added for {{tq|The Drifters rendition of this song can be heard in the films ''[[:Home Alone]]'' and ''[[:The Santa Clause]]''}} doesn't sound likely to support that sentence. Could you quote the sentence or paragraph from the article "Jubilee! Historic Columbia celebrates African-American heritage this weekend with singing, art, dance, drama" in ''The Times and Democrat'' (Aug 26, 2004) that supports the information in the article? Thanks! [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#9966FF;">Schazjmd</span>]] [[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#5500FF;">''(talk)''</span>]] 21:20, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
:I've added a URL for the article "Jubilee!" to the citation -- [[User:Lebrsm|Lebrsm]] ([[User talk:Lebrsm|talk]]) 14:40, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
::I just saw that, {{u|Lebrsm}}. Thanks, I had no luck finding the article online myself. And it's a good source for that claim. I appreciate you adding the citation. {{smiley}} [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#9966FF;">Schazjmd</span>]] [[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#5500FF;">''(talk)''</span>]] 17:14, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
== Was "White Christmas" the first commercially successful secular Christmas song? ==
The article states that the song "established that there could be commercially successful secular Christmas songs..." I'm not sure how accurate this is. "Santa Claus Is Comin' to Town" came out in 1934, eight years before "White Christmas," and I believe it would also be considered a commercially successful secular Christmas song. According to [https://books.google.com/books?id=_kIpubDjlHIC&pg=PA35&dq=%22santa+claus+is+coming+to+town%22+hit&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&ppis=_e&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwint-fb0_TmAhWiTN8KHS4KB9IQ6AEwAHoECAUQAg#v=onepage&q=%22santa%20claus%20is%20coming%20to%20town%22%20hit&f=false one source], "Santa Claus Is Comin' to Town" sold more than thirty thousand records and a hundred thousand copies of sheet music within 24 hours of its radio debut.
--[[User:Lebrsm|Lebrsm]] ([[User talk:Lebrsm|talk]]) 14:32, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
:Source isn't claiming it was the ''first'', they're saying its success launched a new genre. I suspect ''Santa Claus is Coming to Town'' was considered a novelty song, and we have no source claiming its success influenced other composers. The folks in the NPR interview claim {{tq|"But the whole idea of secular Christmas songs really didn't exist before Berlin. No one was actually dreaming of white Christmases before him. Composers and publishers thought, why write a Christmas song? They will only play it once a year. But, in fact, the success of this actually launched a whole genre of secular Christmas songs. And all of a sudden, we invented an American Christmas based on a mythic golden past that never existed in this rural New England that came purely out of his imagination."}} [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#9966FF;">Schazjmd</span>]] [[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#5500FF;">''(talk)''</span>]] 15:40, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
: What does the source say about it being the first? [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 15:45, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
::Neither the source nor the article claim it was the first secular Christmas song. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#9966FF;">Schazjmd</span>]] [[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#5500FF;">''(talk)''</span>]] 16:02, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
::: You're talking past the actual statements. The content in the article reads,
:::: "<nowiki>The song established that there could be commercially successful secular Christmas songs<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/no-one-dreamed-of-a-white-christmas-before-this-song/|title=No one dreamed of a 'White Christmas' before this song|website=PBS NewsHour|access-date=January 16, 2018}}</ref>—in this case, written by a Jewish-American songwriter.</nowiki>"
::: So why are you claiming it's the "first" of anything? "First" is just not in the article nor is it in the source. What the source, https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/no-one-dreamed-of-a-white-christmas-before-this-song, does say is,
:::: "Composers and publishers thought, why write a Christmas song? They will only play it once a year. But, in fact, the success of this actually launched a whole genre of secular Christmas songs. And all of a sudden, we invented an American Christmas based on a mythic golden past that never existed in this rural New England that came purely out of his imagination."
::: The source—and subsequently the article—doesn't make the claim that people did not write commercial Christmas (or holiday) songs before this.
::: The source—and subsequently the article—doesn't say that there were not successful Christmas (or holiday) songs before this.
::: The source—and subsequently the article—does say that a sub-industry around Christmas (or holiday) songs was considered commercially viable. [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 17:43, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::I've reviewed the source again. It said that "...the whole idea of secular Christmas songs really didn't exist before Berlin." I find that very misleading. Perhaps the earlier secular Christmas songs did not have the same widespread influence as "White Christmas." Nevertheless, based on the source and the article, it is easy to infer that "White Christmas" was the first secular Christmas song to have any commercial success. --[[User:Lebrsm|Lebrsm]] ([[User talk:Lebrsm|talk]]) 21:22, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::: It appears to be misleading yes. Do we have anything close to that statement here? However, with the conditional statement of "really", I can see how they might wiggle out of that. We can't help what individuals infer when they read a clear and well-sourced statement. [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 21:25, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
== Date Inconsistency ==
The lede says ""White Christmas" is a '''1942''' Irving Berlin song ...",
but the ''Bing Crosby Version'' section says "The first public performance of the song was by Bing Crosby, on his NBC radio show The Kraft Music Hall on Christmas Day, '''1941'''...".
If the song was performed a year before it was written, that's a pretty neat trick, but probably requires some explanation in the article. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.89.176.249|70.89.176.249]] ([[User talk:70.89.176.249#top|talk]]) 00:44, 31 March 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Good point. Fixed it. [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#9966FF;">Schazjmd</span>]] [[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#5500FF;">''(talk)''</span>]] 00:48, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
== Musicology of the song ==
I wish someone with sufficient expertise would discuss the musicology of the song. I seem to recall hearing that the song is written in a minor key, the key of mourning. It is a bittersweet song as it recalls a time past and looks to a time present and a time future. And isn't that so much of what Christmas is about, a time to reflect on people (loved ones) who have passed on and a time to enjoy the joys of children opening presents? It is one of the most "metaphysical" songs of the season. I might add, many songs of the Christmas season are tinged with profound sadness, 'I heard the bells on Christmas Eve" as one example.[[User:StevenTorrey|StevenTorrey]] ([[User talk:StevenTorrey|talk]]) 15:02, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
== sales details ==
plucked from another Bing book, Swinging on a Star: The War Years, 1940-1946
I collect sales numbers
It sold six hundred thousand discs in the closing months of 1942 (Bing’s royalties came to $298,946, $4.4 million in today’s dollars)
and two million as of 1944.
Sales mounted year after year as it hit the number one spot again in 1945 and 1946, uniquely returning to the top thirty every year but one between its release and Christmas of 1962. By then, the record’s sales exceeded twenty-five million, the bestselling record ever.
In 2007, the Guinness Book of Records updated the number to fifty million, seventeen million more than Elton John’s “Candle in the Wind,” in second place, and twenty million more than Bing’s “Silent Night,” in third.
Guinness numbers do not include Crosby LPs and CDs (his 1949 album Merry Christmas has never been out of print); their numbers registered only singles of his 1942 original and an almost indistinguishable 1947 remake.
I want to add sentence with the early sales info, leave the 50 mil alone
[[User:Tillywilly17|Tillywilly17]] ([[User talk:Tillywilly17|talk]]) 09:21, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
== "Most recorded?" ==
While White Christmas may well be the best ''selling'' Christmas song of all time, if there are only 500 recorded versions it would seem to be FAR from the "most recorded" Christmas song. The Wikipedia article on [[Silent Night]] claims -- with citation -- that Silent Night exists in 13,700 recorded versions.
One or the other of these articles must be wrong. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.95.43.253|74.95.43.253]] ([[User talk:74.95.43.253#top|talk]]) 20:57 7 June 2024 (UTC)</small>
:I can't find "most recorded" in the article; what specific sentence are you taking issue with? [[User:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#066293;">'''Schazjmd'''</span>]] [[User talk:Schazjmd|<span style="color:#738276;">''(talk)''</span>]] 21:10, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
| |||