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== Inconsistent of Latin macrons == |
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Just curious if there is a reason for the use of macrons in the Latin word beātitūdō but not in quotes like beati pauperes spiritu or the word beati. [[User:Jak525|Jak525]] ([[User_talk:Jak525|talk]]) 08:38, Friday, November 12, 2021 (UTC) |
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"Central proclamation"? Sounds like an oppinion, and it's not backed up with anything. Jesus taught a lot of things. I'm going to reword it. - kpearce 02:10, 12 March 2003
— Preceding unsigned comment added by MrJones (talk • contribs) 13:53, 9 February 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think that the Beatitudes have anything to do with international business? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.184.237.200 (talk • contribs) 02:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't want to know who is Henri Nouwen, and what he is doing in the first phrase. Some politically correct crap? --MvR 22:29, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
No authority cited. How does he come to this conclusion. Will edit opinion out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sine Nomine (talk • contribs) 17:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The literal meaning of many of the beatitudes is not always regarded as acceptable by various groups, who instead prefer to reinterpret the passages to conform with their own theology. Meek literally means reserved, i.e. keeping oneself to oneself, and so a large number of groups instead feel that the beatitude regarding the meek should be understood as a rephrasing of the one concerning the poor, with both poor and meek being understood to mean humbleorpowerless. With the same two beatitudes, in order to make them rephrasings of each other, it is necessary to interpret earth not as referring to the physical planet, but instead an allusion to some esoteric holy land. Particularly in early Christianity, some have sought to view the reference to mourners as referring to mourning one's sinfulness, but this does not fit with the theology that was around at the time in which Matthew was written, whereby sin was regarded as something that should be hated not mourned.
It might bear noting, as an example of a critical cultural reference, that Nietzsche considered the beatitudes the paradigmatic example of what he derided as a "slave morality" or "herd morality" - a perverse inversion of the Will to Power. Matt2h 05:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Who is Marc L. Garcia? Why is he assuming authorship? The content from First BeatitudetoThe Ninth Beatitude? is written by me. I haven't edited the previous text out of respect for those who made the effort of writing it, but I dislike the idea of someone else assuming my work. Radu Comanescu 14:51, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've just dropped in to reference the article - so I'm not going to presume to edit on a flying visit.
Why are the verses comprising The Beatitudes not quoted before discussion at such length? It seems a touch perverse not to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.111.168.25 (talk) 22:45, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me also that in the construction of:
The repetitive "The text says..." breaks up the flow, and does not offer a correct version of the Beatitudes to the reader. Indicating one of a few classic translations as source, and putting the individual Beatitudes in quotes would make for a more readable article. "The text says" could be used once at the top of the list with no loss of information. Anyone have a problem with that modification? I will check back in a couple of days to see of there is any comment, and if not, go ahead and do the clean-up. Tellurium130 (talk) 02:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, though the article clearly cites Matthew 5:3-12 the chapter and verse of Luke is omitted. For completeness, we should consider including the citation in the discussion along with Matt. 5:3-12. Tellurium130 (talk) 02:56, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Judging from the history of this article, it appears that significant portions of it were copied from this source. The author of that source is identified as Michelle Ostby in the document properties. If Michelle is not the one who also wrote this document (or does not give permission for it to be here), then it needs to be fixed ASAP or added to Wikipedia:Copyright_problems. An obvious approach is to revert this article to a version prior to when this copyright violation occurred. I'd like to get some consensus (or hear from Michelle) before taking any action. Ben Hocking (talk|contribs) 01:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"Kodjak" is simply referred to without introduction. Are we to know how he is? I think his name shouldn't be in the opening paragraph unless there is some link involved. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mmoor (talk • contribs).
Perhaps "author Andrej Kodjak" should replace "Kodjak", and the whole sentence moved somewhere else. Ben Hocking (talk|contribs) 21:14, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]Kodjak, Andrej. A Structural Analysis of the Sermon on the Mount. New York: M. de Gruyter, 1986.
Just to clarify my latest quasi-reversion, see WP:WEASEL. Ben Hocking (talk|contribs) 14:19, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I in-lined the references that I could, but there are still 7 references that need to be attached to what they support. Any help would be appreciated. Ben Hocking (talk|contribs) 15:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The analyses of specific beatitudes should be supported with sources. As things stand, we don't know if they aren't just the opinions of the editor who added them. Besides, as usual in such cases, specific parts of these analyses seem to reflect just one of the existing views. For example, the text of the article itself acknowledges that there are differences in opinion as to whether there are real differences between Matthew and Luke concerning the "poor" and "hungry" parts. Nevertheless, in the sections devoted to these specific beatitudes, only the "no contradictions" opinion is represented as correct.--91.148.159.4 (talk) 19:22, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have tagged the contributions by Radu Comanescu (talk · contribs) as original research, essay-like, and written from the first-person. I was tempted to completely remove them as this editor has a history of adding OR/essay content, but I think there is some content here worth salvaging. KuyaBriBriTalk 14:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've noticed that my first-person concerns have been addressed, but I still have a problem that a significant amount of the content is still an unreferenced, OR essay. Per Wikipedia:No original research,
Wikipedia does not publish original research or original thought. This includes unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position. This means that Wikipedia is not the place to publish your own opinions, experiences, arguments, or conclusions.
— excerpt from Wikipedia:No original research (original emphasis)
In other words, if this is Radu Comanescu's own argument/interpretation of the meaning of the Beatitudes, and it has no coverage in reliable sources, it doesn't belong. KuyaBriBriTalk 21:28, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, several of Radu Comanescu's edits (see have explicitly been called "synthesis" (see page history), which is also not allowed per WP:SYNTHESIS. KuyaBriBriTalk 21:32, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have mentioned the reliable sources I've used for the text I've posted, including my own researches, published in reviews of theology. Among the main reliable sources quoted there are such as New Bible Dictionary and The Catholic Encyclopedia. Yet, my contribution is deleted again and again. I've asked for an explanation, and my request was deleted, too. I'm going to ask again for an explanation. Radu Comanescu (talk) 13:13, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK, let's try to do a better job. It is clearly that the actual text does not cover the complexity of the Beatitudes. Let's improve it. I will write a new text, observing the requirements of WIKI. It will be ready in July.Radu Comanescu (talk) 23:24, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the associated text of the external link *"Christian Faith and its "fulfillment" of the Natural Moral Law". If one looks at the version before my NPOV edit, one can clearly see the use of external linking as 'advertisement' in the very least, if not more so POV. Talonx84.152.255.121 (talk) 19:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Can you explain why you have deleted my text now? You put instead the same insufficient, dull explanation of the Beatitudes, truly low-rating. That's what you want? Radu Comanescu (talk) 10:59, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"The last of these eight is followed by what appears to be commentaries on it, with Matthew's, according to author R.T. France, integrating elements from Isaiah 51:7.[6] Amongst textual critics, this is seen as an attempt by Matthew and Luke to re-interpret quotations from Q that do not quite fit with their theology if read literally. That the commentary discusses the persecution of Christians, who clearly would not be able to consider Jesus' crucifixion until after it had actually happened, is regarded by most scholars as indicating the timeframe for when Matthew and Luke were written, although more fundamentalist Christians believe that this commentary is an example of prophecy. Matthew refers to only verbal attacks, while Luke also refers to excommunication, which scholars feel indicates[citation needed] the differences in situation between the writers."
This whole paragraph contains the most controversial statements about interpretation and analysis, using the ambiguous language of "scholars agree that..." and yet, it is largely uncited. I would ask for clarification about who is being referred to in the terms "scholars" and "fundamentalist Christians". 66.112.240.208 (talk) 02:08, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Two lists of beatitudes are presented (those in both gospels, then those only in one). This seems quite reasonable, but there's an oddball paragraph that separates them:
Two sentence fragments and a sentence. They appear to have been here quite a while, otherwise I'd have removed them as appearing to be a well-meaning half-baked thought. It seems to me that the author of these statements is pushing a particular viewpoint which is not substantiated by reference and comes nowhere near a neutral POV. I'm inclined to delete the paragraph entirely. 96.54.165.114 (talk) 06:33, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Why does the article mention eight blessings in Matthew but list nine blessings? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.43.84.140 (talk) 09:06, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This article has been marked as unreferenced since 2007! And there is a great deal of junk floating in it. I think needs a serious trim of the unsourced junk and some decent references. I will try to get to it soon. History2007 (talk)
The book of Mormon should stay iff you bring a neutral source that it got smth to do with the scope of the article. 80.132.78.141 (talk) 19:05, 1 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please explain why there is a book of Mormon reference? The beatitudes are not from the Book of Mormon. Should I add a Zoroastrian section and cite similarities between the two? Would that also be acceptable?
It has no place here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markm62 (talk • contribs) 15:58, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a discussion over whether a religion is "true" or not, so you can cease with the "one man's is another man's" line of thought. The article specifically deals with the Beatitudes. Is is therefore irrelevant to have a section dedicated to a different text, from a different book, from a different religion in this article. 121.223.18.165 (talk) 13:08, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is even close than that, in that Mormon teachings are about Jesus, so they are not a far away topic in any sense.
Mormons are Christians, so of course their teachings will be about Jesus. This still doesn't mean an unrelated passage from a different text should be here. Neither of you (btw, pretty sure you are one person) have even given a reason as to why you think its relevant; you've just said that you do. 60.228.67.223 (talk) 13:14, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
How about actually adding to the discussion for once, rather than telling people to "stop doing things"? How about actually using your (limited) intellect to argue why this irrelevant passage should stay, rather than attempting to shut down discussion? How about stop using multiple accounts to push your POV on this article? 60.228.67.223 (talk) 13:23, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Odd that these "two" accounts zealously insist the Book of Mormon paragraph is relevant to the article, yet they are both unable to come up with one single reason as to how it is relevant. As said previously, until someone can come up with a valid reason for this paragraph to be here, and can source it without violating WP:OR, I will continue to remove this obviously irrelevant section. 60.228.67.223 (talk) 13:29, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please sign your comments and remain civil. Again I'll state that it's hilarious you take the time to write all of that, but still can't give me one reason for that passage to remain. And I never stated I was "two" editors; it's obvious the two IPs are mine, as I have a dynamic IP (btw, my new IP showed up BEFORE you wrote that message on the IP talk page). 60.228.67.223 (talk) 13:35, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is not the "Mormon Beatitudes" any more than the Ten Commandments are the "Jewish Beatitudes". Relevance is not in the eye of the beholder; relevance is not subjective, it is objective. A reference to the Book of Mormon in this article merits a one sentence mention at best and that is what I will add. Give me a few minutes. 101.162.25.187 (talk) 13:44, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To address Adjwilley's note, as is now stated in the article, many non-Christian religions including Mormonism, have the Beatitudes passage almost word for word in their texts; most notably the Baha'i faith (compare from the New Testament: "Blessed are those who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" with this from the Lawḥ-i-Aqdas: " "Blessed the soul that hath been raised to life through My quickening breath and hath gained admittance into My heavenly Kingdom." To give one preferential treatment over the others violates the WP:NPOV policy.IcarusVsSun (talk) 15:21, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm good to go with the current iteration, understanding that everything is subject to change, albeit by consensus. I would also mention that the Bahá'í are a faith of the book (the Bible) (like Muslims), and recognize Christ as part of their religion. Happy editing. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:21, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Together, the Beatitudes present a new set of Christian ideals that focus on love and humility rather than force and exaction. They echo the highest ideals of the teachings of Jesus on mercy, spirituality, and compassion.[5][6]"
The above is from the end of the lede. I found myself thinking "citation needed" until I got to the two cites at the end, so I looked up the relevant parts of the cited works. I used Google Books for 5 "The Synoptics, Matthew, Mark, and Luke" and sadly page 68 was cut off so it's possible that that one page has all of what's in the above quote but I doubt it. Otherwise neither that book nor the Dictionary of the Bible make claims anywhere close to the end of the lede. I get where the writer is trying to go with what they wrote but it should either be rewritten to be more in keeping with the citations or be removed. 198.204.141.208 (talk) 18:25, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"... focus on a spirit love and humility ..."
If this is correct, I don't understand what is meant by "spirit love". Perhaps it should read: "... focus on a spirit of love and humility ..." That I can appreciate. Dawright12 (talk) 09:22, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This was amended some time ago BobKilcoyne (talk) 05:44, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Mathew 5:42. And luke 6:30. Give to those who ask. If a man asks formyour coat give him your shirt too. Also james 1:5
I had to look these up. They should not be mssing. The whole poimt was to show that god acts upon us from the outside. The human request is a serious one because humans contain a soul. Requests come from that which is outsode a person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.94.241.13 (talk) 03:23, 26 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In an attempt to sanitize the article to Wikipedia standards, it looks as if a whole whack of content has been deleted over time.
I also wonder that no one refers to The Daily Study Bible by William Barclay. He spends quite considerable time expounding on the very first of the beatitudes, describing someone who is "poor in Spirit" as someone who recognizes his own spiritually destitute condition.
The often used definition of "meek" is strength under control, signifying that when a person yields control to the Holy Spirit, it is like a strongman who listens to an inner voice that is even stronger than he is. Ricgal (talk) 01:50, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Cryptic" doesn't fit for me. The meanings are not perfectly clear . . . the words, some of them have more than one meaning but I would never use "cryptic", that has an import of intentional ambiguity. I think these words are as clear as possible and that studying them can bring great insight. I'm not knowledgeable enough to say any more. Benvhoff (talk) 08:44, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There are nine Beatitudes, not eight.
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are they that have been persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye when [men] shall reproach you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven.
SW3 5DL (talk) 02:54, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
At the head of this talk section, we are told that this article is within the scope of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity. Should this not also be within the scope of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Bible?Vorbee (talk) 08:26, 27 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Should not #3 read "Him" and not "him"? "Blessed are those who see God in every person and strive to make others also discover him." vs. "Blessed are those who see God in every person and strive to make others also discover _Him_." 67.241.75.93 (talk) 00:44, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let "poverty of spirit" to mean exactly what it says. Elaborate explanations by this person or that do little to embellish and much to confuse language and sentiments already clear. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.127.36.182 (talk) 04:51, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I added this reference to the HOMILY OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS from 2016 since the one that was there is not referring to the right one: https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/homilies/2016/documents/papa-francesco_20161101_omelia-svezia-malmo.html
The Spanish icon Joan Manuel Serrat offers his own set of Beatitudes in the song 'Bienaventurados', tongue firmly in cheek :
Blessed are the fools who risk giving advice because they appear wise at the cost of others.
Blessed are the poor because they know with certainty that no one loves them for their riches.
Blessed are those addicted to strong emotions because these are good times for party people.
Blessed are the owners of power and glory because they inform us of what's going on.
Blessed are those who reach the top because it is downhill the rest of the way.
Blessed are those who taste failure because they will know who their friends are.
Blessed are the chaste because they have divine grace when opportunities abound to sin.
Blessed are those who love because they have better than 50% chance of a great romance.
Blessed are those who are have hit bottom because things can only get better.
Blessed are those who show off their guts because they will have a chance to prove it.
Blessed are those who got into debt because someone once did them a favor.
Blessed are those who have clarity about things because theirs is the kingdom of the blind.
Tofindya (talk) 18:46, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just curious if there is a reason for the use of macrons in the Latin word beātitūdō but not in quotes like beati pauperes spiritu or the word beati. Jak525 (talk) 08:38, Friday, November 12, 2021 (UTC)