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Talk:Inferno (Dante): Difference between revisions

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

I'm not wedded to the idea of keeping the headings, but the sins in the headings are thoroughly standard, not from any videogames. And they aren't titles, but the sins punished in the respective circles. Carlo (talk) 18:44, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I think the wording of some of the headings can be improved, but headings indicating the sins punished in the respective circles are, I think, a big help to readers of the article, especially as this is the longest of the three Divine Comedy articles. The Purgatorio article doesn't have them, but has an image giving the same effect, while for Paradiso the structure is defined in the lead paragraph. —- Radagast3 (talk) 02:31, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I understand the wish to label and differentiate the circles in the heading (such as by indicating the sin for each), but please consider the downsides I've mentioned below. Perhaps, as a compromise, an authoritative source for the labels could be chosen. I also think the label should be in the form "The violent" or similar (as these are closer to what I've read in the poem's annotations), rather than "Violence", which -- I must reiterate -- the simplified form that is used in the videogame. --Mercurio (talk) 03:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. "Limbo", the heading for the first circle, is a sin? I don't think so. It's the name of the circle (literally meaning "border"), which makes it appropriate in the heading, since they are of equal rank. Same goes for "Malebolge" ("evil ditches") for the eighth circle.

I know that each circle houses certain kinds of sinners, but why include the sin(s) in the heading? I mean, "Violence" is not synonymous with "The Eighth Circle", even though that certainly is the sin punished there. To put "(Limbo)" in the heading of Circle 1, while in the same way presenting "(Violence)" in the heading for Circle 8 would mislead. In my opinion, it's sufficient to name the sin in the section text and not in the heading.

Secondly, the names of the sins are up to question: "Greed" or "Avarice"? "Anger" or "Wrath"? The last 2 circles punish the sin of fraud, so why call only the eighth circle "Fraud". And so on... So, again, no need to mess up the heading with the sin's name.

Do a Google search for "Dante's Inferno" -- the top result is for the videogame. I'm definitely not against the videogame's "re-imagining" of the poem (in fact, I eagerly await it), but let's avoid confusing (or contaminating, as some may see it) the classic work with the game's liberties, which include assigning a convenient name for each circle (or "level" in the game). I think that simplification should be kept in the videogame's own article. By the way, a trailer for the videogame is here.--Mercurio (talk) 03:32, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the names we have are derived from the videogame at all, and see no need to hurry to change what we have (though I plan to eventually modify some of the names slightly). My copy of the Inferno names the circles as 1. Limbo / 2. The Lustful / 3. The Gluttonous / 4. The Hoarders and Spendthrifts / 5. The Wrathful / 6. The Heretics / 7. The Violent / 8. Malebolge (Fraud Simple) / 9. Cocytus (Fraud Complex), and that's attractive, but for now I suggest the existence of a videogame is no reason to change this article. — Radagast3 (talk) 12:13, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe someone has vandalized the entry's text regarding the second circle, lust. Anyone up for fixing it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fz5656 (talk • contribs) 19:53, 9 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Someone's fixed it now. But feel free to click "undo" yourself when you spot any vandalism. :) Radagast3 (talk) 00:05, 10 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I made a wiki-table based on this image if anyone is interested. The markup is on the image page. JBarta (talk) 23:15, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that! The image was added to the article way back in 2008 and removed by someone at the time as "not particularly useful." Personally, I'm a big, big fan of wiki-tables to summarise information. In this case, though, we have a fairly clear article structure based on the circles, so I'm not sure. What does everyone else think? -- Radagast3 (talk) 23:32, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the table is very helpful. There are a couple of typos though - "eachother" in Level 5 and "Panderes" in Level 8. StAnselm (talk) 06:57, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and I notice that someone asked on the image talk page why it wasn't blue. Having a red table does, perhaps, promote the popular misconception of the inferno being fiery. I'd prefer a blue table, myself. StAnselm (talk) 07:09, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If we're going to have a table, I think I'd prefer it to include the subdivisions of the 7th, 8th, and 9th circles, if that's not too messy. As to colour, I'd prefer grey, since we have fire at some levels, and ice at others. Oh, and the typos are fixed. -- Radagast3 (talk) 07:18, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On the other hand, if we use a table here, it would be good to use analogous and similar-looking tables in Purgatorio and Paradiso , so that may influence the choice to be made here. -- Radagast3 (talk) 10:55, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, I'm increasingly less enthused about the table. -- Radagast3 (talk) 01:13, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I like the idea of a table, but I favor no background, or light gray, since readability is more important than slickness. I find black on red to be very hard to read. Carlo (talk) 01:50, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hey folks ,

i think that this extravagant metaphysical highly judgmental piece of medieval of bullshit , sincerely deserves a proper criticism section , don't you think ?

how about mentioning what other notable authors/thinkers thought about this?

i mean , if someone has enough prejudice and arrogance to claim that great philosophers and characters throughout the course of human history such as socrates , aristole , epicurus and ..etc , are being punished in hell , then i'd expect that person to take a lot of heat in the 700-800 years thereafter .

just a thought

cheers Cowmadness (talk) 17:02, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Dante is not claiming that, actually.

There is more to do with the 4 related articles (apart from general cleanup and expansion). The most important thing we need is probably sections in the Divine Comedy article on Dante's political and economic views, but those sections would need to be written by someone with some expertise. That is a place where criticism might come in.

But "700-800 years thereafter," the general consensus is that this is a brilliant and complex poem, which requires some study to fully understand. -- Radagast3 (talk) 22:28, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One man's brilliance is another mans bullshit. Truly one of the great cosmic truths. JBarta (talk) 02:26, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone through the article adding material, referencing various claims, making the language consistent, and fixing some results of the split of the original Divine Comedy article. I'm hoping to get this to "Good Article" status.

The table issue above is still unresolved, and more can be done both here (a wider range of references would be good) and in the thematic sections of Divine Comedy. Personally, I'm moving on to Purgatorio. -- Radagast3 (talk)

Circle 9 is currently subtitled "Betrayal," and I've just reverted an unexplained change to the subtitle.

I think this perhaps captures the idea better than "Treason," which suggests betrayal of countries specifically (and that, according to Dante, is not the worst kind of betrayal).

For example, "Judas' betrayal of Jesus" is a common phrase, but I've never heard "Judas' treason of Jesus." It's common to subtitle the 9th circle "The Traitors," but that's more general: "Judas was a traitor" and "the traitor Judas" are common phrases.

After some debate, we decided on "Lust," etc., rather than "The Lustful," etc. as subtitles, so I think that forces us to have "Betrayal" here, unless there's a better word? -- Radagast3 (talk) 23:27, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Random passer-by here: I agree. Betrayal is a good term to use. Drmies (talk) 02:59, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hiya, First of all the most famous line of the gates of hell reading: 'Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate' this phrase does not mean 'Abandon all hope, ye who enter' it means 'Surrender as you enter every hope you have'. And it may seem like thats the same thing but it really isn't. I mean, Come on, What kind of Italian poet who lived in the very beginning of the Renaissance would put 'Ye' into his works. Lemme think, um.. none. So stop mis-translating it.

Second, Dante uses a combination of base word Latin and Italian, the entire thing is not in latin.

Thanks for finally learning —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gilneas23 (talk • contribs) 23:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See the footnote in the article about that line. -- Radagast3 (talk) 00:32, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

could someone add more description to the rings of hell the article never describes what some of the rings atually are 98.93.56.154 (talk) 00:37, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's a fair bit of description already. Readers who want more generally read the poem. Anything in particular you'd like to see? -- Radagast3 (talk) 00:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

BBC Radio 4's In Our Time is a 45 minute discussion programme about the history of ideas, with three eminent academics in their field, hosted by Melvyn Bragg. Each edition deals with one subject from one of the following fields: philosophy, science, religion, culture and historical events. It is akin to a seminar. The entire archive going back to 1998 is now available online in perpetuity.

An edition about Dante's Inferno was broadcast with Margaret Kean, University Lecturer in English and College Fellow at St Hilda’s College, University of Oxford; John Took, Professor of Dante Studies at University College London and Claire Honess, Senior Lecturer in Italian at the University of Leeds and Co-Director of the Leeds Centre for Dante Studies.

You can listen to the programme on this link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00f05zj. Would you be able to include this as an external link? Many thanks.--Herk1955 (talk) 14:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the 7th circle of inferno Dante places Alexander, but is not clear to scholars if he meant Alexander the GreatorAlexander of Pherae. I believe that a citation of that is necessary Miklaf (talk) 17:23, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"This can also bee seen as a reflection of the spiritual stagnation they lived in." I removed the second "e" in Be. This was not a typo; it comes a sentence after "while pursued by wasps and hornets that continually." There is simply no way that could be anything but on purpose.

Cute, subtle, but clearly a joke. 74.128.56.194 (talk) 10:21, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]