Notification: listingofLiOnatWP:Redirects for discussion.
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{{Press|author= Elon Musk|title= [[The Joe Rogan Experience]]|date= 10 February 2021|quote=If you read the Wikipedia article on lithium-ion, it is quite good.}} |
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* <nowiki>[[Low self-discharge NiMH battery#Low self-discharge cells|low self-discharge NiMH]]</nowiki> The anchor (#Low self-discharge cells) [[Special:Diff/648118227|has been deleted]]. <!-- {"title":"Low self-discharge cells","appear":{"revid":299168789,"parentid":297702066,"timestamp":"2009-06-28T19:26:04Z","removed_section_titles":["Low Self-Discharge Cells"],"added_section_titles":["Low self-discharge cells"],"replaced_anchors":{"Low Self-Discharge Cells":"Low self-discharge cells"}},"disappear":{"revid":648118227,"parentid":648115464,"timestamp":"2015-02-21T00:42:41Z","removed_section_titles":["Discharging","Over-discharging","Low self-discharge cells"],"added_section_titles":["Discharge","Over-discharge","Reduced self-discharge"],"replaced_anchors":{"Discharging":"Discharge","Over-discharging":"Over-discharge"}}} --> |
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*'''Support''' obviously history will get much longer in future [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 15:46, 18 October 2021 (UTC) |
*'''Support''' obviously history will get much longer in future [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 15:46, 18 October 2021 (UTC) |
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*:There is an article [[History of the lithium-ion battery]], that I contributed to. The History section , that we have here is a condensed version of that article. It does not need to get longer, but it can be improved. As far as you comment "history will get much longer in future" goes... Until about 3-5 years ago most people working on lithium-ion batteries felt, that "Li-ion are batteries are as good as they can ever be, and there is no room for improvement". Actually ONE improvement ([[superconcentrated electrolyes]]) happened since, but all other areas have been stagnant indeed. [[User:Walter Tau|Walter Tau]] ([[User talk:Walter Tau|talk]]) 21:05, 27 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== specific power of『~250 – ~340 W/kg』is outdated == |
== specific power of『~250 – ~340 W/kg』is outdated == |
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== Requested addition == |
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* Specific text to be added or removed: In the section that begins, "Performance of manufactured batteries has improved over time.": |
* Specific text to be added or removed: In the section that begins, "Performance of manufactured batteries has improved over time.": |
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An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect [[:LiOn]] and has thus listed it [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|for discussion]]. This discussion will occur at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 31#LiOn]] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Shhhnotsoloud|Shhhnotsoloud]] ([[User talk:Shhhnotsoloud|talk]]) 09:45, 31 August 2022 (UTC) |
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect [[:LiOn]] and has thus listed it [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|for discussion]]. This discussion will occur at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 31#LiOn]] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Shhhnotsoloud|Shhhnotsoloud]] ([[User talk:Shhhnotsoloud|talk]]) 09:45, 31 August 2022 (UTC) |
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== "LiON" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] == |
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An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect [[:LiON]] and has thus listed it [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|for discussion]]. This discussion will occur at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 31#LiON]] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Shhhnotsoloud|Shhhnotsoloud]] ([[User talk:Shhhnotsoloud|talk]]) 09:46, 31 August 2022 (UTC) |
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== asking for help with formatting figure placing and other minor adjustiments == |
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I added a lot of new infor and a figure to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Lifespan, |
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but I do not have enough experience to place the figure properly within the section. [[User:Walter Tau|Walter Tau]] ([[User talk:Walter Tau|talk]]) 13:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC) |
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== Anode and Cathode == |
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Umm... guys, anodes are positive and cathodes are negative! Both the term anode and cathode, and the terms positive and negative, are all scrambled up in this article. Can somebody please fix this? [[Special:Contributions/68.4.194.66|68.4.194.66]] ([[User talk:68.4.194.66|talk]]) 18:17, 23 February 2023 (UTC) |
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:What exactly do you mean by this? ― [[User:Blaze Wolf|<b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>]][[User talk:Blaze Wolf|<sup>Talk</sup>]]<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545</sub> 18:32, 23 February 2023 (UTC) |
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:Here is the correct definition: anode = electrode, where the oxidation occurs. cathode = electrode, where the reduction occures: |
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:https://study.com/learn/lesson/cathode-anode-half-cell-reactions.html . Of course, in a rechargeable battery anode and cathode flip, when going from discharge to charge. However, the battery community adopted since the 1800's the convention, that only discharge matters. Thus in ALL batteries anode is negative and cathode is positive. |
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:Not everyone likes this defitions, therefore [[International Society of Electrochemistry]] now recommends [[negode]] for negative electrode and [[posode]] for positive electrode. It makes sense to use this defition in wikipedia, but we also need to explain, that many old publication use the old cathode/anode dichotomy. [[User:Walter Tau|Walter Tau]] ([[User talk:Walter Tau|talk]]) 21:14, 27 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== Semiconductor == |
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This needs to be added: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/03/a-new-twist-on-rechargeable-battery-performance/ [[User:Lfstevens|Lfstevens]] ([[User talk:Lfstevens|talk]]) 01:41, 9 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== 693Wh/L claims: wrong by a factor of 4x == |
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the source by which the page takes that value is false: |
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source:https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0674/3651/files/panasonic-ncr18650-ga-spec-sheet.pdf |
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at the cited cell dimensions (R=18.3mm H=65.1mm) and rated capacity (3.3Ah at 3.6V), we get a 11.88Wh cell for 68ml of volume, making this volumetric energy density 173Wh/L, just under a quarter of the given value. |
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This is without taking in the packing efficiency of about 91%, making it closer to 160Wh/L [[Special:Contributions/2001:861:4640:1C80:868:D88:D10D:E7CD|2001:861:4640:1C80:868:D88:D10D:E7CD]] ([[User talk:2001:861:4640:1C80:868:D88:D10D:E7CD|talk]]) 09:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC) |
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== Li-ion batt improvement over time == |
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The article speaks of the improvement in Li-ion batteries during the 1990s, in life, energy density, power density, etc. |
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But it seems to skip the subject entirely for 2000 and beyond. |
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What are the best sources for tracking comparative Li-ion performance over the years? The article would be improved if we would explicate the changes from 2000 thru 2023. Better yet would be to find those forecasting per year changes based on R&D plus recent industry trends on operationalizing new technology into new lines. [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 11:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC) |
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:Yes, the "final piece of the puzzle leading to the modern lithium-ion battery" quote seems to imply nothing has happened since 1990. Similar "final piece of the puzzle in the invention of commercial Li-ion battery" language appears in the [[Jeff Dahn]] article. I can't find any other references to this 'puzzle'. [[User:Navathehut|Navathehut]] ([[User talk:Navathehut|talk]]) 15:56, 16 June 2024 (UTC) |
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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignmentbyPrimeBOT (talk) 02:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The specific power is currently listed as ~250-~340 W/kg, according to a 7-year old reference to panasonic's website. This: https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidsa/files/ur18650rx.pdf spec sheet from panasonic indicates a specific power up to 800 W/kg, based on a 46-gram battery providing 10 amps at 3.7 volts. Higher drain batteries exist, but I can't find a spec sheet as detailed or credible to indicate that.
It would be good to see some kind of breakdown as to current production of Li-ion batteries. Numbers made of various types / chemical technology, to get a feel for the way the market is going. Obviously there are varied applications - "horses for courses", but it would be useful to understand who is making what, especially those used in high density energy storage for power applications (rather than for powering portable electronic devices such as phones and toys, which are hobbled by fad physical size/design constraints). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.183.176 (talk • contribs) 29 okt 2017 10:30 (UTC)
"Handheld electronics mostly use lithium polymer batteries (with a polymer gel as electrolyte)"
There is nothing in the source cited to support this. This whole article and the one on Lithium Polymer spread the myth that "lithium ion in a pouch is lithium polymer". See the introduction of this article for discussion about the widespread myth that commercially used pouch cells are lithium polymer:
These polymer electrolyte cells were a specialized thing that never really caught on. Gigs (talk) 23:25, 25 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
All electrode combinations have a usual voltage at 3.something V. How does it make sense to top up any battery as high as at 4.05 V when all of them have a nominal voltage UNDER that level? Can anyone find a source for this information? "Top charging is recommended to be initiated when voltage goes below 4.05 V/cell"
From the Article:
Periodic topping charge about once per 500 hours. Top charging is recommended to be initiated when voltage goes below 4.05 V/cell.
In a lithium-ion battery the lithium ions are transported to and from the positive or negative electrodes by oxidizing the transition metal, cobalt (Co), in Li1-xCoO2 from Co3+ to Co4+ during charge, and reducing from Co4+ to Co3+ during discharge. The cobalt electrode reaction is only reversible for x < 0.5 (x in mole units), limiting the depth of discharge allowable.
In the discharged cell x=0, that is the material is LiCoO2. Not the depth of discharge is limited by (x<0.5) but the depth of charge. Overcharge means x>0.5 . The discharge limit would be an inequation like x>0 . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C9:8F1D:3C86:CEE0:8DEF:59EE:EC46 (talk) 07:54, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It strikes me as a bit pointless to list the charge/discharge efficiency (coulombic efficiency) in the infobox. The CE is usually very close to 100% (otherwise the battery wouldn't be viable). Yes, under certain conditions like certain specific cutoff voltages, like some of those used in the quoted source, it can be lower, but the CE is generally used to evaluate individual cells or battery packs to spot potential problems, or when trying to improve performance in R&D - it's not used to compare one type of battery chemistry to another. Listing a CE range for all lithium-ion batteries seems like a not very useful figure. (Now that I think about it, it seems a bit pointless to list the CE for any battery, really, since as far as I know that value is always supposed to hew as close to 100% as possible.) Thoughts? --Tserton (talk) 22:51, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I can’t find any mention on Wikipedia of this massive price-fixing cartel story! That was widely covered in the news and courts.
https://www.justice.gov › ... › News Panasonic and Its Subsidiary Sanyo Agree to Plead Guilty in Separate Price-Fixing ...
https://www.reuters.com › article EU fines Japanese rechargeable battery makers over cartel | Reuters
Disappeared? Add/restore? 50.201.195.170 (talk) 01:02, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Added: An antitrust-violating Price-Fixing Cartel among 9 corporate families, including LG Chem, GS Yuasa, Hitachi Maxell, NEC, Panasonic/Sanyo, Samsung, Sony, and Toshiba was found to be rigging battery prices and restricting output between 2000 and 2011. [1] [2] [3][4] The complaint lays out an overwhelming amount of evidence, e.g. "Defendants took various acts in furtherance of this conspiracy over the course of at least 110 illicit meetings and communications that began in 2000, evolved over time, and lasted until May 2011" Backups at archive.fo.--50.201.195.170 (talk) 03:12, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
References
{{cite web}}
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I think the part in the intro about the Samsung batteries on planes should be moved to a different section because I feel like the Intro is too bulky and I find it an unnecessary detail to be in its current section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.197.66.2 (talk) 16:58, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
From batteryuniversity.[]com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries Why the link is in global filter? Valery Zapolodov (talk) 13:48, 9 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In the third paragraph the initialisms NMC and LMR are used, but I don't see a preceding definition. 2A01:4C8:1429:8393:98E8:6ED9:7088:4930 (talk) 11:03, 18 July 2021 (UTC) AJF[reply]
In the Cathode section there is a table of cathode chemistries. It has a column titled "Date". Date of what? First proposal for use? First prototype? First commercial production? Anticipated commercial production? Anyway, none of the values have references. I'm inclined to entirely remove the column, after waiting a bit for comments here. Leotohill (talk) 21:19, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
specific power of『~250 – ~340 W/kg』is outdated and the peak value of newer cells can easly reach 2500w/kg continuous e.g. the US18650VTC5A — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:DD:2702:8F00:908D:91E7:DA50:B174 (talk) 19:29, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thumperward I think just splitting out the biggest section (design?) would be enough Chidgk1 (talk) 13:38, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
"Overall, between 1991 and 2018, prices for all types of lithium-ion cells (in dollars per kWh) fell approximately 97%.[1] Over the same time period, energy density more than tripled.[2] Efforts to increase energy density contributed significantly to cost reduction.[3]"
71.232.19.131 (talk) 14:18, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody has objected, so I made the requested edit to this page. If that is allowed to stand, I'll have a go at clearing up the damage on the related pages. Hallucegenia (talk) 10:56, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps SI units could be used. Eg for specific energy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.73.134.121 (talk) 08:34, 14 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect LiOn and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 31#LiOn until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:45, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect LiON and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 31#LiON until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:46, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I added a lot of new infor and a figure to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Lifespan, but I do not have enough experience to place the figure properly within the section. Walter Tau (talk) 13:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Umm... guys, anodes are positive and cathodes are negative! Both the term anode and cathode, and the terms positive and negative, are all scrambled up in this article. Can somebody please fix this? 68.4.194.66 (talk) 18:17, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This needs to be added: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/03/a-new-twist-on-rechargeable-battery-performance/ Lfstevens (talk) 01:41, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
the source by which the page takes that value is false: source:https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0674/3651/files/panasonic-ncr18650-ga-spec-sheet.pdf at the cited cell dimensions (R=18.3mm H=65.1mm) and rated capacity (3.3Ah at 3.6V), we get a 11.88Wh cell for 68ml of volume, making this volumetric energy density 173Wh/L, just under a quarter of the given value. This is without taking in the packing efficiency of about 91%, making it closer to 160Wh/L 2001:861:4640:1C80:868:D88:D10D:E7CD (talk) 09:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article speaks of the improvement in Li-ion batteries during the 1990s, in life, energy density, power density, etc.
But it seems to skip the subject entirely for 2000 and beyond.
What are the best sources for tracking comparative Li-ion performance over the years? The article would be improved if we would explicate the changes from 2000 thru 2023. Better yet would be to find those forecasting per year changes based on R&D plus recent industry trends on operationalizing new technology into new lines. N2e (talk) 11:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]