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Talk:Naval Special Warfare Command (Thailand)

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I love how they play the theme from The Rock (I think) on their web page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.236.30.115 (talk) 13:17, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps there should be mention of the 2018 soccer team cave rescue added to this article. Most people in the world had never heard of Thai Navy SEALS. Suddenly, they've become the heroes of the cave. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.71.148.25 (talk) 16:42, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It has been proposed in this section that Naval Special Warfare Command (Thailand)berenamed and movedtoThai Navy SEAL. Abot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Underwater Demolition Assault Unit → Thai Navy SEAL –

1. The subject appears to be known as the Thai Navy SEAL in most English literature, such as Reuters, LA Times, Straits Times, Washington Post, Dispatch Live, etc.
2. The name Underwater Demolition Assault Unit seems to appear in the weak source mentioned in the article only.
3. The official name of the subject is the Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet (หน่วยบัญชาการสงครามพิเศษทางเรือ กองเรือยุทธการ), as appeared at the bottom of its website. But this name seems to appear at the site bottom only; at the other places on the same website and on other social media of the subject (such as sealthailand.com, Thai Navy SEAL Facebook, etc), the term SEAL is used.
   -- Miwako Sato (talk) 02:58, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• oppose. your third point regarding official name is enough to overrule that. SYSS Mouse (talk) 14:06, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • @SYSS Mouse: The articles on Wikipedia use the titles that are most commonly used in English literature, not necessarily the official titles. See WP:COMMONNAME. --Miwako Sato (talk) 14:37, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Please do not move articles over opposition during open move requests as was done here. If there is consensus to move the page at the end of the discussion, it will be moved as requested by an uninvolved closer. Even if you would like to withdraw a request without performing the move, the request should be withdrawn rather than deleted from the talk page as took place in this edit. Dekimasuよ! 15:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per syss mouse - ^theWOLFchild 20:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Support The "Underwater Demolition Assault Unit" was its old name. The organisation has been renamed to the "Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet" for at least a decade, but it is generally known as the "(Thai Navy) SEAL". --YURi (talk) 03:23, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support either Thai Navy SEAL (because the unit calls itself so and is generally known so) or Thai Naval Special Warfare Command (its current official name) per BobNesh. --YURi (talk) 03:54, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. All of the sources from point #1 are from a singular event and most likely the same newswire. The sudden, probably erroneous, usage of the term by all of them does not reflect a longstanding consensus by news organizations, much less "most English literature". "Naval Special Warfare Command" should be the new name, given it is actually the official one and the current one is invalid. 9³ (talk) 15:49, 6 July 2018 (UTC) 23:23, 7 July 2018 (UTC) My first point still stands pending solid English sources outside of the caving incident. 9³ (talk) 23:23, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose However, (Royal) Thai Naval Special Warfare Command would be better than current name or proposed one. BobNesh (talk) 15:54, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose This page is about the special unit name "Underwater Demolition Assault Unit" not a command Headquarters name Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet it different. If you want to create about Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet I think you must create a new page about this command and link the force of Naval Special Warfare Command with Underwater Demolition Assault Unit.Ministerboy (talk) 23:08, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment: @Ministerboy: "Underwater Demolition Assault Unit" and "Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet" are the same unit (with the former being its old name). Please see the discussion in the section below. --YURi (talk) 01:55, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Support "Thai Navy SEAL" or "Thai Naval Special Warfare Command" (but prefer "Thai Naval Special Warfare Command" over "Thai Navy SEAL" as it is the present official name of the agency) --Aristitleism (talk) 08:32, 7 July 2018 (UTC) Support Paul below --Aristitleism (talk) 09:03, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Move to Naval Special Warfare Command (Thailand), per the reasoning that this is the unit's current name, and as "Thai" isn't part of its name. This is a case where I think the official name should be preferred over the more common nickname of uncertain provenance, even though the latter is more commonly used colloquially. --Paul_012 (talk) 08:33, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: The page was originally titled Royal Thai Navy SEALs, but was renamed to Underwater Demolition Assault UnitbyUser:Mesoso2 in 2016, to follow the bold title in the lead. However, this had been in turn inserted by an IP vandal (or at best, a very misguided editor) backin2011, with zero references supporting it. As such, there is zero reason to keep the article at the current title. Pinging users SYSS Mouse, Thewolfchild, 93 and Ministerboy. --Paul_012 (talk) 10:01, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Here's a link to a youtube video, Published on May 18, 2017, showing the Royal Thai Navy SEAL Skydive Team. If you look at the cap at 43 seconds in, it clearly says, "Royal Thai Navy SEAL". Even if "Thai" is not used nationally, it's obviously used internationally. Like in the Netherlands, the Korps Mariniers is the official title, but internationally it's officially called Royal Netherlands Marine Corps (on batch, RNLMC). Karel Adriaan (talk) 10:21, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Support either the title proposed by the OP ("Thai Navy SEAL") or the title proposed by Paul_012 ("Naval Special Warfare Command (Thailand)"). --iyouwetheyhesheit (talk) 09:15, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The organisation has changed its name to Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet since 2008, and it is commonly known as Thai Navy SEAL (with SEAL being an acronym), per the sources I have given. Then, @Thewolfchild: explain your reasons for reverting the edits, I beg you. --Miwako Sato (talk) 04:48, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Miwako Sato: No begging required, discussing disputed content is standard. This is what is supposed to happen, instead of edit warring. There was sourced content that stated that the Thai Seals are named for the marine animals, and not as an acronym like the USN SEALs. You tried changing that, it was reverted (disputed) by another editor, but instead of discussing, you reverted again. I then sent the article back to QUO and requested a talk page discussion, but you continued reverting. A quick look on Google produced a Bangkok Media outlet (see here) that refers to the Thai unit in lower case, which would support the original content. However, we should allow some time for others to participate. If it can be clearly determined that the Thai unit does indeed use the same naming style as the Americans, or a consensus supports that, then your change will likely go back in. Just be patient and please stop the disruption. Thank you - wolf 05:12, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Thewolfchild: That page actually contains a motto of the entire Royal Thai Navy, which states that the motto is SAIL (from Seamanship, Allegiance, Integrity, Leadership). But if you go deeper to the page containing the background of the organisation, you'll find that the page says that the organisation started as an Underwater Demolition Team and later changed the name to the present one, Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet, and is also known as SEAL, which is an acronym for Sea-Air-Land. The name Thai Navy SEAL is what the organisation is commonly referred to in English literature (according to the sources I have provided elsewhere). Even the official Facebook page of the organisation is titled Thai Navy SEAL. --Miwako Sato (talk) 05:29, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

•  Comment: There are various other sources (apart from the SEAL's own website), such as MThai & Zcooby, which say SEAL is from SEa–Air–Land, and none mentions any relationship with the animal seal. So, it is appropriate to capitalize SEAL. --YURi (talk) 02:02, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have restored Miwako Sato's version. The previous claim was cited to an English-Thai dictionary. Simple common sense would tell that a general dictionary would not have contained any material whatsoever supporting the claim. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:28, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And if anyone bothered to look at the edit history, they'd find that the claim was inserted by an IP vandal back in 2011, who inserted the sentence: "The unit is colloquially known as หน่วยซีล, the Thai language word for Seals as in the pinniped animals." which is of course complete BS. A trout to Thewolfchild for inadvertently defending leftover vandalism from seven years ago. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:33, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You've been around long enough to know why we discuss disputed content instead edit-warring over it. This discussion appears to have lead to a resolution and now hopefully a more stable article. That said... a 'trout', because I didn't go clawing through hundreds of edits, going back seven years, to support an edit that another editor here that is not me wanted sooo much? Oh, puh-leeeze... keep your fish and get over yourself. - wolf 10:41, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]