→The Hideout: supply missing sig so archiver handles appropriately
|
|
||
(14 intermediate revisions by 8 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{Talk header |search=yes}} |
{{Talk header |search=yes}} |
||
⚫ | |||
⚫ | |||
⚫ | |||
⚫ | |||
⚫ | |||
{{WikiProject Science Fiction|importance=Mid}} |
|||
}} |
|||
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
||
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}} |
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}} |
||
Line 9: | Line 16: | ||
|archive = Talk:Nightfall (Asimov novelette and novel)/Archive %(counter)d |
|archive = Talk:Nightfall (Asimov novelette and novel)/Archive %(counter)d |
||
}} |
}} |
||
⚫ | |||
|importance=Mid |
|||
⚫ | |||
⚫ | |||
⚫ | |||
⚫ | |||
== Planet's and stars' name == |
== Planet's and stars' name == |
||
"[[Lagash]]" is a well-known Middle East archaeological site (according to the En. Brit., "one of the most important capital cities in ancient Sumer, " Is there is evidence that IA intentionally chose this name rather than that he simply made up a name out of English phonemes?[[User:Kdammers|Kdammers]] ([[User talk:Kdammers|talk]]) 01:22, 3 April 2014 (UTC) |
"[[Lagash]]" is a well-known Middle East archaeological site (according to the En. Brit., "one of the most important capital cities in ancient Sumer, " Is there is evidence that IA intentionally chose this name rather than that he simply made up a name out of English phonemes?[[User:Kdammers|Kdammers]] ([[User talk:Kdammers|talk]]) 01:22, 3 April 2014 (UTC) |
||
:Asimov was well read in ancient history, so he probably didn't make the name up. [[User:PatGallacher|PatGallacher]] ([[User talk:PatGallacher|talk]]) 19:08, 17 April 2022 (UTC) |
|||
:Yes, there is evidence. Asimov addressed this in his autobiography "I. Asimov," in the context of Robert Silverberg's novelization of the story: |
|||
{{Blockquote|text=Bob changed the name of the planet and of one character in “Nightfall” because I had made deliberate use of Sumerian and Egyptian names to lend strangeness without too much strangeness. Bob thought that a mistake and wanted nothing to be too reminiscent of Earth, and he may have been right.}} |
|||
:[[User:Darkday|Darkday]] ([[User talk:Darkday|talk]]) 12:57, 13 November 2022 (UTC) |
|||
The stars Trey and Patru are probably the numbers 3 and 4 in Romanian (3 written to match the pronunciation), see [[Romanian_numbers]]. Moreover, they are on places 3 and 4 in the list following the stars named by Greek letters. There are parallels to numbers in the others as well, so maybe from another language? [[Special:Contributions/129.247.247.238|129.247.247.238]] ([[User talk:129.247.247.238|talk]]) 10:33, 17 November 2014 (UTC) |
The stars Trey and Patru are probably the numbers 3 and 4 in Romanian (3 written to match the pronunciation), see [[Romanian_numbers]]. Moreover, they are on places 3 and 4 in the list following the stars named by Greek letters. There are parallels to numbers in the others as well, so maybe from another language? [[Special:Contributions/129.247.247.238|129.247.247.238]] ([[User talk:129.247.247.238|talk]]) 10:33, 17 November 2014 (UTC) |
||
Line 24: | Line 31: | ||
The name Saro City is likely derived from "[[Saros_(astronomy)|Saros]]" which is one type of [[eclipse cycle]]. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:600:8600:6242:B89C:B297:6782:AAAA|2601:600:8600:6242:B89C:B297:6782:AAAA]] ([[User talk:2601:600:8600:6242:B89C:B297:6782:AAAA|talk]]) 20:24, 13 March 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
The name Saro City is likely derived from "[[Saros_(astronomy)|Saros]]" which is one type of [[eclipse cycle]]. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:600:8600:6242:B89C:B297:6782:AAAA|2601:600:8600:6242:B89C:B297:6782:AAAA]] ([[User talk:2601:600:8600:6242:B89C:B297:6782:AAAA|talk]]) 20:24, 13 March 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
||
== |
== Confusing sentence == |
||
Surely the opposite side of the planet would remain in light from the other suns and the unaffected civilisations there would recolonise? <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Stub Mandrel|Stub Mandrel]] ([[User talk:Stub Mandrel|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Stub Mandrel|contribs]]) 13:27, 18 July 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
We have this sentence: "As stated in the introduction, the weather in the book is analogous to the meteorologic experiences of the characters in the book". So (1) what introduction does this reference? The article's lede does not mention weather at all. And (2) what does this sentence even mean? |
|||
:I remember wondering about that when I first read the story, but on a later re-read, I noticed that it was covered: "The eclipse that results, with the moon seven times the apparent diameter of Beta, covers all of Lagash and lasts well over half a day, so that no spot on the planet escapes the effects." The novelization's cover image might be flawed here -- if that's the "diamond ring" effect of an Earth-viewed eclipse, it would imply bodies of roughly equal angular size, I think. But I'm not sure; maybe the light from a smaller sun would still illuminate the moon's edge like that. Is it in fact a mistake, and if so, has any reliable source noted it? [[User:Joule36e5|Joule36e5]] ([[User talk:Joule36e5|talk]]) 22:19, 5 August 2015 (UTC) |
|||
FWIW, the sentence itself seems to have very little relevance either to the plot or to the story's significance. Delete? [[User:Jmacwiki|Jmacwiki]] ([[User talk:Jmacwiki|talk]]) 21:14, 29 September 2021 (UTC) |
|||
:True the sentence is nonsensical. The book's weather is not analogous to the meteorological experiences of the characters. The weather '''is''' the meteorological experience – that is, I believe, the definition of weather. The introduction is the book's introduction. In parts, the book's weather reflects the characters' moods. In other places the characters' moods are greatly affected by the weather. (That is rather like real life.) |
|||
:I'm editing the offending sentence so that it makes sense. Please feel free to improve or delete my efforts. [[User:OrewaTel|OrewaTel]] ([[User talk:OrewaTel|talk]]) 01:15, 30 September 2021 (UTC) |
|||
== about how much Asimov got paid for his Nightfall short story == |
|||
== Genre == |
|||
November 18, 2022:-I am reading ''Nightfall and Other Stories''<nowiki> published 2021 by Del Rey Trade Paperback Edition, copyright 1969 by Isaac Asimov. He wrote a preface to Nightfall, and on page 4, he said the check was $150.00 from the editor John Campbell, who paid Asimov a bonus of 1/4 cent a word. Not $166. The first appearance of the story was September 1941, in Astounding Science Fiction, by Street & Smith Publications, Inc. I only want to correct the "facts" out there in the internet. If someone can verify this, great. Thank you. ~~~~ecila</nowiki> [[User:Ecilauhc|ecila]] ([[User talk:Ecilauhc|talk]]) 20:08, 18 November 2022 (UTC) |
|||
The lede refers to the original story as a novelette (links to novella entry), but in the body of the article, the term "short story" is used. When I looked at the word counts (for novella/novellette contests) given in the novella article, it seems (using two online word-counter tools that it falls well below the bottom counts. I think this needs clarification. [[User:Kdammers|Kdammers]] ([[User talk:Kdammers|talk]]) 14:17, 1 November 2016 (UTC) |
|||
:$166 is the correct number. Asimov cleared that up in 1972 in ''The Early Asimov'': |
|||
:The story is always considered, in the SF world, a short story. The term "novelette" is a mistake. The article should be moved. [[User:Zaslav|Zaslav]] ([[User talk:Zaslav|talk]]) 19:24, 26 April 2019 (UTC) |
|||
{{Quote box|quote = In telling the story, in that collection [''Nightfall and Other Stories''], of how “Nightfall” came to be written, I mentioned that I had received $150 for it, quoting from memory. Once again, I must confess fallibility. The records say $166. It is a small point, and perhaps not worth noting, but I know my readers. By explaining this now, I fend off dozens of letters that will mention the discrepancy and demand an explanation.}} |
|||
:[[User:Darkday|Darkday]] ([[User talk:Darkday|talk]]) 00:00, 19 November 2022 (UTC) |
|||
== |
== Article Categories == |
||
There seems to be a tendency to add categories without checking their relevance. In particular, this article is called Post-apocalyptic. Yes there are historical apocalyptic events but story is about a recurring disaster. The short story deals with the run up and the actual apocalypse. Maybe the short story should be in the Pre-apocalyptic category. The novel talks about the post disaster society and so that part of the article is indeed post-apocalyptic. |
|||
In the short story version, the accumulated knowledge of the current cycle is stored away from the main action at a place called the Hideout, so that the next cycle can begin with that knowledge and go on. Is that different in the novel? The Plot Summary doesn't mention the Hideout. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/209.159.232.121|209.159.232.121]] ([[User talk:209.159.232.121#top|talk]]) 20:00, July 27, 2019 (UTC)</small> |
|||
The other category is American Philosophy. It's a story and like all good works of fiction it examines emotions, feelings and the consequent actions of the protagonists but 'Philosophy'? No. I don't think so. And why ''American'' Philosophy? For sure the authors are American but the protagonists are just folks.Their reactions seem to be international rather than parochial. [[User:OrewaTel|OrewaTel]] ([[User talk:OrewaTel|talk]]) 05:41, 29 December 2022 (UTC) |
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Nightfall (Asimov novelette and novel) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies |
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 180 days ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"Lagash" is a well-known Middle East archaeological site (according to the En. Brit., "one of the most important capital cities in ancient Sumer, " Is there is evidence that IA intentionally chose this name rather than that he simply made up a name out of English phonemes?Kdammers (talk) 01:22, 3 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Bob changed the name of the planet and of one character in “Nightfall” because I had made deliberate use of Sumerian and Egyptian names to lend strangeness without too much strangeness. Bob thought that a mistake and wanted nothing to be too reminiscent of Earth, and he may have been right.
The stars Trey and Patru are probably the numbers 3 and 4 in Romanian (3 written to match the pronunciation), see Romanian_numbers. Moreover, they are on places 3 and 4 in the list following the stars named by Greek letters. There are parallels to numbers in the others as well, so maybe from another language? 129.247.247.238 (talk) 10:33, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The name Saro City is likely derived from "Saros" which is one type of eclipse cycle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:600:8600:6242:B89C:B297:6782:AAAA (talk) 20:24, 13 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We have this sentence: "As stated in the introduction, the weather in the book is analogous to the meteorologic experiences of the characters in the book". So (1) what introduction does this reference? The article's lede does not mention weather at all. And (2) what does this sentence even mean?
FWIW, the sentence itself seems to have very little relevance either to the plot or to the story's significance. Delete? Jmacwiki (talk) 21:14, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
November 18, 2022:-I am reading Nightfall and Other Stories published 2021 by Del Rey Trade Paperback Edition, copyright 1969 by Isaac Asimov. He wrote a preface to Nightfall, and on page 4, he said the check was $150.00 from the editor John Campbell, who paid Asimov a bonus of 1/4 cent a word. Not $166. The first appearance of the story was September 1941, in Astounding Science Fiction, by Street & Smith Publications, Inc. I only want to correct the "facts" out there in the internet. If someone can verify this, great. Thank you. ~~~~ecila ecila (talk) 20:08, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In telling the story, in that collection [Nightfall and Other Stories], of how “Nightfall” came to be written, I mentioned that I had received $150 for it, quoting from memory. Once again, I must confess fallibility. The records say $166. It is a small point, and perhaps not worth noting, but I know my readers. By explaining this now, I fend off dozens of letters that will mention the discrepancy and demand an explanation.
There seems to be a tendency to add categories without checking their relevance. In particular, this article is called Post-apocalyptic. Yes there are historical apocalyptic events but story is about a recurring disaster. The short story deals with the run up and the actual apocalypse. Maybe the short story should be in the Pre-apocalyptic category. The novel talks about the post disaster society and so that part of the article is indeed post-apocalyptic. The other category is American Philosophy. It's a story and like all good works of fiction it examines emotions, feelings and the consequent actions of the protagonists but 'Philosophy'? No. I don't think so. And why American Philosophy? For sure the authors are American but the protagonists are just folks.Their reactions seem to be international rather than parochial. OrewaTel (talk) 05:41, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]