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→Massive Plot Hole: I added a new viewpoint on the plot holes of the story, much more severe than previously thought.
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:I remember wondering about that when I first read the story, but on a later re-read, I noticed that it was covered: "The eclipse that results, with the moon seven times the apparent diameter of Beta, covers all of Lagash and lasts well over half a day, so that no spot on the planet escapes the effects." The novelization's cover image might be flawed here -- if that's the "diamond ring" effect of an Earth-viewed eclipse, it would imply bodies of roughly equal angular size, I think. But I'm not sure; maybe the light from a smaller sun would still illuminate the moon's edge like that. Is it in fact a mistake, and if so, has any reliable source noted it? [[User:Joule36e5|Joule36e5]] ([[User talk:Joule36e5|talk]]) 22:19, 5 August 2015 (UTC) |
:I remember wondering about that when I first read the story, but on a later re-read, I noticed that it was covered: "The eclipse that results, with the moon seven times the apparent diameter of Beta, covers all of Lagash and lasts well over half a day, so that no spot on the planet escapes the effects." The novelization's cover image might be flawed here -- if that's the "diamond ring" effect of an Earth-viewed eclipse, it would imply bodies of roughly equal angular size, I think. But I'm not sure; maybe the light from a smaller sun would still illuminate the moon's edge like that. Is it in fact a mistake, and if so, has any reliable source noted it? [[User:Joule36e5|Joule36e5]] ([[User talk:Joule36e5|talk]]) 22:19, 5 August 2015 (UTC) |
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There are a number of plot holes in the story which makes it very poor in my opinion. Though it is famed, the flaws are so bad that it is the worst story from Asimov I read in my life. First he should have made the people always alert, no sleep since there is no night. Since people go in the dark to sleep, darkness can't be so terrible to them. Even if the moon is so big that the eclipse is well over half a day (I guess you mean therefore a full planet rotation), which would need some checking on the conditions to realize this, it is not clear that the night will be that long (see below) but worst of all, there is one big flaw : the 5 suns on the other side of the planet all send their light to the moon. So you have to imagine that the moon will reflect the light of 5 suns several of them very bright. It will be full moon to a much higher level than our full moon (much bigger moon in apparent size, 5 suns on it), stars might not even be visible at all and the light not so far from the direct light of their weakest sun. |
There are a number of plot holes in the story which makes it very poor in my opinion. Though it is famed, the flaws are so bad that it is the worst story from Asimov I read in my life. First he should have made the people always alert, no sleep since there is no night. Since people go in the dark to sleep, darkness can't be so terrible to them. Even if the moon is so big that the eclipse is well over half a day (I guess you mean therefore a full planet rotation), which would need some checking on the conditions to realize this, it is not clear that the night will be that long (see below) but worst of all, there is one big flaw : the 5 suns on the other side of the planet all send their light to the moon. So you have to imagine that the moon will reflect the light of 5 suns several of them very bright. It will be full moon to a much higher level than our full moon (much bigger moon in apparent size, 5 suns on it), stars might not even be visible at all and the light not so far from the direct light of their weakest sun. Also, that moon cannot arrive unnoticed, totally invisible since it will be in its full moon state. People will see it arrive and understand that is it going to pass in front of the sun. Astronomers will therefore be able to predict the length of the eclipse and warn the people as well. |
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On top of that, the 5 suns on the other side cannot be aligned in opposite direction of the one sun being eclipsed, therefore the duration of the full-moon night cannot be half a planet rotation, forcibly some sun lagged behind or is close to rise again. So it will be shorter and therefore, that the eclipse lasts a full "day" or so does not matter. |
On top of that, the 5 suns on the other side cannot be aligned in opposite direction of the one sun being eclipsed, therefore the duration of the full-moon night cannot be half a planet rotation, forcibly some sun lagged behind or is close to rise again. So it will be shorter and therefore, that the eclipse lasts a full "day" or so does not matter. |
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Another problem is that the eclipse cannot be regular - every 2000 years if I remember correctly - because the six suns will be in different positions each time, perturbating the trajectory of the moon substantially, so the chance that it returns exactly when there is only one sun on the Lagash side is basically zero. Of course one can argue that all suns are in commensurable periods and therefore all suns are exactly in the same position every 2000 years but I don't think that this six sun system would be very stable and that commensurable periods can be expected. Indeed it would be interesting to test whether the description of the 6 sun system he makes is possible or what special conditions are required for it to exist (not talking about the moon). Anyway, these celestial mechanical problems seem to have been overlooked, especially the overbright very big moon and make the novel totally irrealistic to me. I got bored. [[User:Papatamus59|Papatamus59]] ([[User talk:Papatamus59|talk]]) 21:41, 8 July 2021 (UTC) |
Another problem is that the eclipse cannot be regular - every 2000 years if I remember correctly - because the six suns will be in different positions each time, perturbating the trajectory of the moon substantially, so the chance that it returns exactly when there is only one sun on the Lagash side is basically zero. Of course one can argue that all suns are in commensurable periods and therefore all suns are exactly in the same position every 2000 years but I don't think that this six sun system would be very stable and that commensurable periods can be expected. Indeed it would be interesting to test whether the description of the 6 sun system he makes is possible or what special conditions are required for it to exist (not talking about the moon). Anyway, these celestial mechanical problems seem to have been overlooked, especially the overbright very big moon and make the novel totally irrealistic to me. I got bored. [[User:Papatamus59|Papatamus59]] ([[User talk:Papatamus59|talk]]) 21:41, 8 July 2021 (UTC) |
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"Lagash" is a well-known Middle East archaeological site (according to the En. Brit., "one of the most important capital cities in ancient Sumer, " Is there is evidence that IA intentionally chose this name rather than that he simply made up a name out of English phonemes?Kdammers (talk) 01:22, 3 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The stars Trey and Patru are probably the numbers 3 and 4 in Romanian (3 written to match the pronunciation), see Romanian_numbers. Moreover, they are on places 3 and 4 in the list following the stars named by Greek letters. There are parallels to numbers in the others as well, so maybe from another language? 129.247.247.238 (talk) 10:33, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The name Saro City is likely derived from "Saros" which is one type of eclipse cycle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:600:8600:6242:B89C:B297:6782:AAAA (talk) 20:24, 13 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Surely the opposite side of the planet would remain in light from the other suns and the unaffected civilisations there would recolonise? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stub Mandrel (talk • contribs) 13:27, 18 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There are a number of plot holes in the story which makes it very poor in my opinion. Though it is famed, the flaws are so bad that it is the worst story from Asimov I read in my life. First he should have made the people always alert, no sleep since there is no night. Since people go in the dark to sleep, darkness can't be so terrible to them. Even if the moon is so big that the eclipse is well over half a day (I guess you mean therefore a full planet rotation), which would need some checking on the conditions to realize this, it is not clear that the night will be that long (see below) but worst of all, there is one big flaw : the 5 suns on the other side of the planet all send their light to the moon. So you have to imagine that the moon will reflect the light of 5 suns several of them very bright. It will be full moon to a much higher level than our full moon (much bigger moon in apparent size, 5 suns on it), stars might not even be visible at all and the light not so far from the direct light of their weakest sun. Also, that moon cannot arrive unnoticed, totally invisible since it will be in its full moon state. People will see it arrive and understand that is it going to pass in front of the sun. Astronomers will therefore be able to predict the length of the eclipse and warn the people as well. On top of that, the 5 suns on the other side cannot be aligned in opposite direction of the one sun being eclipsed, therefore the duration of the full-moon night cannot be half a planet rotation, forcibly some sun lagged behind or is close to rise again. So it will be shorter and therefore, that the eclipse lasts a full "day" or so does not matter. Another problem is that the eclipse cannot be regular - every 2000 years if I remember correctly - because the six suns will be in different positions each time, perturbating the trajectory of the moon substantially, so the chance that it returns exactly when there is only one sun on the Lagash side is basically zero. Of course one can argue that all suns are in commensurable periods and therefore all suns are exactly in the same position every 2000 years but I don't think that this six sun system would be very stable and that commensurable periods can be expected. Indeed it would be interesting to test whether the description of the 6 sun system he makes is possible or what special conditions are required for it to exist (not talking about the moon). Anyway, these celestial mechanical problems seem to have been overlooked, especially the overbright very big moon and make the novel totally irrealistic to me. I got bored. Papatamus59 (talk) 21:41, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The lede refers to the original story as a novelette (links to novella entry), but in the body of the article, the term "short story" is used. When I looked at the word counts (for novella/novellette contests) given in the novella article, it seems (using two online word-counter tools that it falls well below the bottom counts. I think this needs clarification. Kdammers (talk) 14:17, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In the short story version, the accumulated knowledge of the current cycle is stored away from the main action at a place called the Hideout, so that the next cycle can begin with that knowledge and go on. Is that different in the novel? The Plot Summary doesn't mention the Hideout.
