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I think its inaccurate to say that it is about homosexuality or antihomosexuality, per se. My understanding is that the king required his subjects to perform a sexual act of homage and that the Uganda martyrs were put to death for not doing it. Thus, it is about the institutionalization of sexual predation rather than about a particular sexual orientation. Bob99 (talk) 20:15, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Why?
So why were the martyrs killed? An explanation is given only for the English bishop, not for any of the natives. 02:03, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
As noted above, the issue was, at least according to my understanding, that the king required his subjects to perform a sexual act of homage and that the Uganda martyrs were put to death for not doing it. Thus, it is about the institutionalization of sexual predation (and not about a particular sexual orientation). Bob99 (talk) 20:17, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Minor Grammar Issues
1. That the former Kingdom of Buganda is now part of Uganda is noted in the 1st ¶, so it′s redundant in the 2nd.
2. Shouldn′t the Kingdom of Buganda have a capital K? ☺Dick Kimball (talk) 13:34, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have acted on the first point. The second, I think, is not so clear. As it stands, it means "Buganda, which was a historical kingdom". Capitalized, it would mean that the correct title was "Kingdom of Buganda", not just "Buganda". Which is better? Esoglou (talk) 14:00, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Block quotes
Esoglou, would you mind if we tried to summarise the two block quotes in the middle of the article? I generally think articles read better if they draw upon sources rather than repeat them word for word. I've had a go but would welcome your thoughts in case you think any important point has been left out. At the same time I've moved some of the text about to try and make it flow better. It's also a bit tricky to try and tease out the elements of the story. I think it would help if we had a better set of sources - at the moment they are made up of blogs and articles. I've added the Dictionary of African Historical Biography which might be a start. The challenge is to get to the historical facts. The motivation for the slaughter seems motivated primarily by political concerns rather than Mwanga's personal caprices (although that's important) - indeed there is evidence that he promoted Christians to important positions before and after the massacre. Contaldo80 (talk) 08:03, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
We must keep to what the sources say and not advance our own personal interpretations of the motivation. Your attribution of political motivation for the killing of the martyrs is undermined by the very point you make: Mwanga's appointing of Christians to important positions suggests that his action was not directed against Christians as such. It supports the interpretation expressly given in sources such as Gay Star News (which can scarcely be suspected of wishing to downplay the homosexual motivation that it attributes to Mwanga) that his action was prompted by personal motives. Esoglou (talk) 14:56, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ok - I've made a couple of minor improvements but otherwise think it looks fine. It's interesting, however, that the Dictionary of African Biography - which seems the most respectable source we have so far - says nothing at all about the Uganda Martyrs. Maybe in the scheme of things they just weren't that important. Who knows how many people were killed in various tribal kingdoms at the whim of the king or chief? Church missionaries would want to play up the story, but was it significant in domestic terms? Instead the Dictionary places Mwanga at the centre of a colonial power struggle, in which Christian and Islamic missionaries were a type of advance guard. But as this article is inevitably of a religious/ ecclesiastical aspect then coverage at this level of detail seems sensible. Contaldo80 (talk) 15:33, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If this article were about the history of Uganda, it would give very little space to the Martyrs of Uganda. But the article is about the Martyrs of Uganda. Esoglou (talk) 19:31, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's true. But in the text you suggest that they were recognized as martyrs almost immediately. That may be right, but we don't have a clear source that supports that. I think it would be good if we can get one. I've also amended the wording to change "homosexual" to "sexual" to address neutrality. If he had tried to rape a group of women I doubt we would have written that they had resisted his heterosexual advances. Contaldo80 (talk) 08:32, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
