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User talk:Jostcom2

Hi there, please stop adding unsourced content as you have done here and apparently here and elsewhere. Content must be verifiable, and in order to facilitate that, we need proper references. If and when you restore content that has been removed for being unsourced, you must provide a reference if you choose to restore it.

As I look at this edit and similar, can you please clarify where in those documents it supports the claim that the DCSS was based on JAXA rockets? When you link to 20+ page documents, it is difficult to find specific information, and I don't think that we should be requiring readers to process 30 pages to verify the information. This is why it is preferable to include page numbers in citations, and maybe quotes in some cases. Your response would be appreciated, thanks. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:54, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. The DCSS was based on technologies from the H-II. It is presumed that JAXA and Mitsubishi transferred their technology to Boeing. As evidenced by the edits, Ruslik0 is currently in an edit war with me and I need him to be blocked for a year. It is pretty much sourced as I have it. Check out my talk page here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jostcom2#Unsourced_content --Jostcom2 (talk) 21:06, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have moved your comment from my talk page to here, since it is generally preferable to keep discussions in one place. While I appreciate your response, I don't think you answered my question: Can you please clarify where in each of the documents you provided as references[1][2][3] the claim that the DCSS was "based on the design of the upper stage of JAXA's H-II and H-IIA rockets" is supported? Please reply below. Thank you. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:20, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have the references here:http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_2/United_States_5/Delta_III/Description/Frame.htm

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/thorh13.html Jostcom2 (talk) 21:48, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the word "JAXA" or "H-II" in either of those pages, (also doubt that they'd meet our reliable sourcing guidelines), so I'm still at a loss for how you are asserting this content is sourced. And since you've twice evaded my direct question about those PDFs, I'm starting to get the sense that you are deliberately being evasive. Since I want to give you a fair opportunity to prove that the content you submitted multiple times was properly supported by references, I'm going to need you to be a little more clear in your answers, please. Multiple times you submitted a claim that the DCSS was "based on the design of the upper stage of JAXA's H-II and H-IIA rockets". What specific content in any of those sources supports that claim? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:08, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think this isn't accurate history, Jostcom. Mitsubishi (who made the H-II series and H-3) supplied the Delta III upper stage tanks. But I don't think they were derived from H-II tanks. At the time the first Delta-III was designed, H-II original was flying. When Delta III first launched (August 1998), Japan was still developing H-IIA, which first flew three years later in August 2001. The original H-II upper stage has totally different propellant tank designs from Delta III and H-IIA - see b14643.de H-II gallery and in particular the "First and second stage" graphics in black and white cross section. You can see the tanks with a common bulkhead and single structure, rather than two separate tanks with gridwork between them as in Delta III and H-IIA. I don't know when the specific design and procurement decisions for Delta III and H-IIA started, but it seems unlikely that the H-IIA second stage tanks design would have been ready for a 1998 launch when the rest of the vehicle didn't fly for another 3 years.

They appear similar enough and from the same manufacturer that they probably were planning and developing somewhat in concert, but there were complicated setasides and codevelopment going back to H-I. I'm having a hard time nailing down specific details precisely, but I can't even get tank propellant masses to line up exactly. Specifically claiming that it's derived needs more specific program histories data, such as AIAA or other professional journals papers, or program history documents or something like that. Articles in Aviation Week or Japanese newspapers, etc. Any of those specifically saying that the Mitsubishi tanks for Delta III were in development for or taken directly from H-IIA second stage tanks would be ok, but I haven't found any doing literature searches tonight. That's not certainty they're not there, but I haven't found any. Brittanica says H-IIA started development in 1996, which seems very late for its upper stage tanks to fly in 1998 in a Delta III.

We need very specific sources for Wikipedia content which isn't clear. THanks. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 10:31, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]