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User talk:Monotonehell

Seeing as all of my attempts at improving the AoC page are being reverted, belittled and insulted by you, I have decided to let you have it. Even sourced statements are being deleted or claimed out of context. There is nothing I can do to help the article under these conditions; you may as well lock it and edit it all by yourself.

I have restored Age of consent in Africa per your request, since it seems in keeping with the rest of the Age of consent pages. The later version (which was visible when the page was tagged, and ultimately speedy deleted) had been vandalised, so I have left a few edits deleted. Hope this helps _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 11:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As you seem to be the "authority" on the age of consent wikipedia page, I wanted to contact you because I'm about to contribute to it. I saw the "map" in particular and realised it was not extremely clear nor complete so I decided to make a new one from scratch. I uploaded it on the wikimedia commons website. You can find it here : http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Age_of_Consent.png
I'd like to have your opinion on it before I edit the age of consent page and include it. Thanks in advance :) Thiste 15:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

LOL! Authority? Maybe the LOUDEST and most annoying. ;) Your map is very good, however the reason there is so much grey on the current map is due to the the Wikipedia policy WP:V that all information must be verifiable. The previous version of the map had a lot less grey areas as it was based on the now defunct (and wrong) ageofconsent.com site. Other sites like avert.org have a more up to date listing BUT we here are ruled by the verify policy and so the map is only updated as the information comes in. That information is on the subpages;

Africa Asia Australia and Pacific Region Europe North America South America

The map is a little behind the current subpages as we like to wait a bit for the info to be disputed and so on. Sorry you did all that work already! (I just added a note to the file's page saying similar) Cheers --Monotonehell 05:31, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well the thing is I don't think it's very satisfying that the map is so empty, so grey... :) Look what I found, a website promoting gay rights in Africa, that lists all african countries and their laws on age of consent & homosexuality. It's not complete but pretty good nonetheless. They cite the articles from each country's penal code. I hope this source is good enough to be included in the age of consent article & thus in the map ?

Go there : http://www.mask.org.za/index.php?page=africabycountry

I'll try to find other sources so we can soon have a more satisfying & complete article & map. That would be cool Thiste 14:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[UPDATE] : I just found the interpol website, didn't see it was already on the wikipedia article. What makes the data over there not reliable ?

Continuing the search. Thiste 14:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[UPDATE2] : found this : http://www.ilga.info/Information/Legal_survey/ilga_world_legal_survey%20introduction.htm

It's already cited as reference on the wikipedia article on Homosexuality_laws_of_the_world. Seems to have some info that interests us in it. Thiste 15:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yup I'm aware of those sites (I cheated a bit and pinched one entry from the Africa gay rights site just to put SOMETHING on the Age of consent in Africa page so people would stop deleteing it). The problem is none of those sites are authoritive. We need to go to the actual legislation or peer reviewed texts to get verifiable information. Have a look at the Age of consent in Australia page and see how each entry points to the appropriate article in the legislation. Sites such as austlii.edu.au have authoritive info. Actual academic text books that discuss said legislation would also be good.

The Interpol site was found to be out of date on a number of matters a while ago (see the talk page for AoC). We can't cite non-authoritive websites. This usually means that if it doesn't end in .edu.* or isn't an official govt website of that country it's not good enough.

I really do like your map as it covers the States of the US and Australia, so it would be great if we can use it. --Monotonehell 06:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

LOL just another point to illustrate how web sites are generally not good sources, under Wikipedia's policy, Wikipedia itself is not a reliable source. Also university students are not allowed to use it in their work. --Monotonehell 06:52, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First I want to stress that my map has been put on the age of consent article, but it is NOT my doing. Now onto your post. Well I understand how you find my map interesting with the US states & all, I also understand your wanting to be encyclopedic. And that's the problem actually, because if I refer to the subpages to fill the map it leaves only 8 US states and to add to that, the subpage is even "subject to dispute". Thus all that great work you praise me for would be lost.

I'd like to find a solution in accordance with your point of view but I guess I'll wait for your exams to be over :)

I must say tho that IMHO if an age is recognized on at least two of the sources we have, it should be enough for us to trust it. Just my point of view though. I think I'm gonna redo 2 maps maybe (if I have the patience) : one with every source I can find (the most complete map possible), and another one with the most care possible taken (the "only-subpages" one).Thiste 19:48, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The N.America page was put on dispute by someone who's never really made a case for dispute, whose dispute was over the naming of the page anyway, and who has not taken the dispute down. So who knows.

The wanting to be encyclopedic isn't mine, it's a WP policy. The older version of the stateless map did have many more countries filled in, the newer version has them greyed out where they are not verified properly. I'd say that if you want a source that's somewhat reliable, we could go with avert.org. Even though they have had some mistakes all it takes is someone to send them an email with the appropriate legislation and they will fix it. I've actually sent them 3 emails about their chart. I'd say it's fine to leave your map up on the page since someone went ahead and stuck it there already. But it would be great if you would improve on its accuracy (where did you get the info from again?). Also a friend of mine has suggested that you pick some more contrasting colours, I'm unsure if it's just her monitor but she's told me that some of the yellow/green colours are too close in value. --Monotonehell 05:42, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well my primary source of info was from advert.org actually, mixed with the previous wikipedia map (which info I prefered over advert.org's). So that should suit our needs for the moment. As I said, I was about to remake the map actually, and with a better color palette (it was my first map after all :p). So that I'll do.

Not this next week I'm afraid though. This time I'm the one not available for the next few days. I'm going on holidays for the week, so I'll only be back after may, 27th :) Thiste 00:51, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PS: You can go check there http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Life_Expectancy.png , I'll probably use a palette similar to the one on this other map of mine. Looks more professional imho :)

I haven't compared everything we've learned to avert's data but when I see a discrepency I've been sending them an email, so they might be mostly okay. Have fun on holiday! --Monotonehell 07:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]