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(Top)
 


1 June 9  



1.1  Re: Do the IBM Watson videos with the different robots still exist, or are they gone?  
7 comments  




1.2  Small detail  
9 comments  






2 June 11  



2.1  Monetary policy, attempt #2  
5 comments  






3 June 12  



3.1  Tarot PDFs  
2 comments  






4 June 13  



4.1  Enemies with wallrunning in single-player first-person shooters  
1 comment  




4.2  Sign standards  
10 comments  






5 June 15  



5.1  Villa Park stadium, Birmingham (Euro '96)  
3 comments  






6 June 18  



6.1  McDonalds in Spain  
5 comments  




6.2  How do you create a beach?  
2 comments  






7 June 20  



7.1  Why doesn't the "film template" include a section on age ratings or sequels and prequels?  
5 comments  






8 June 22  



8.1  Hogwarts Express  
3 comments  






9 June 23  



9.1  China, Russia, and Genghis Khan  
14 comments  




9.2  What is the best way for me to get signatures for a petition?  
29 comments  






10 June 24  














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< Wikipedia:Reference desk

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by DOR (HK) (talk | contribs)at00:39, 24 June 2024 (China, Russia, and Genghis Khan). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
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June 9

Re: Do the IBM Watson videos with the different robots still exist, or are they gone?

Over a decade ago, I once saw some videos that featured several fictional robots that were each interested in doing something that Watson could already do. In each video, one of the robots was interviewed. For example, one video showed a robot talking about how it wants to help improve air quality in Beijing, to which the interviewer responds that Beijing's smog problem is "a bit more complicated than that". In another video, another robot talks about how "Back in my day, vacuum tubes were" and I forget the rest of what it said, but I hope you get the idea. – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 15:36, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I've seen this done with RfD discussions, so I don't see why I shouldn't try to do a similar thing with my unanswered Reference Desk question. (though I can see how this would be annoying if someone were to continuously repeat questions that have already received plenty of responses)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~~~~

If no one can answer my question at the moment, then I need to know that. Total silence isn't always a helpful way to get that point across.

My best guess is that nobody else scrolling through this page was familiar with the particular videos I was trying to describe. – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 21:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would be an excellent guess. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots23:52, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is, however, not more than a guess. I guess that nobody who saw this question knows for certain that nobody who saw this question can answer it, so no one of us can reply, "No one here can answer your question." One might reply, "Perhaps nobody seeing this question can answer it." This might be added to any question that has gone unanswered. A bot might even automatically add this to any question when it is posted, so we don't need to do this.  --Lambiam 07:07, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I thought the question was odd. I don't recall ever seeing these videos, and for the most part, I keep on top of some of this stuff (I take a few months off from popular culture and media every year for my own health, so I do end up missing some things). Was this video only seen in China? Viriditas (talk) 20:05, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure how any RefDesk editor can be expected to know that other editors don't know the answer to a question. Alansplodge (talk) 11:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We are discouraged from guessing, speculating, and other forms of shooting the breeze. Even an editor stating that they do not know the answer is of no value to an OP, who is interested only in hearing from those who do know the answer. So if nobody who's seen the question knows the answer, silence is what the OP is going to get. Another possibility is that someone who's seen the question does have the answer or at least some pertinent information, but has neither the time nor the interest in providing same, and is either assuming that some other editor will come along soon and help the OP out, or perhaps doesn't care either way. In no case are they going to actually type: "I have the answer/some relevant information but do not have the time or interest in providing them", because if they could type that, they could just as easily have provided the answer itself. So, again, silence is what the OP is going to be getting. So, an assumption that silence always means that nobody who's seen the question knows the answer, is not justified. A bot might usefully say: "Your question has not attracted any answers so far. This may be for a range of reasons, including but not limited to: Nobody who has seen the question knows the answer." -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:09, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Small detail

Hi. I'll come straight to the point. Could the watch worn by referee Nicolae Rainea (centre) during the 1983 European Cup final between Hamburg Juventus have been a digital watch? Although you can't actually see very well from the picture. Thank you. https://www.google.it/search?q=nicolae+rainea1983&client=safari&sca_esv=df90e1279361e6f3&channel=iphone_bm&udm=2&biw=2133&bih=1021&sxsrf=ADLYWIKaUvinrW_lzo6DvF6Oc_RJL66vRA%3A1717975888430&ei=UDtmZrXyGbv67_UPgqaeiAM&ved=0ahUKEwi12r_01s-GAxU7_bsIHQKTBzEQ4dUDCBE&uact=5&oq=nicolae+rainea1983&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiEm5pY29sYWUgcmFpbmVhMTk4M0jcJFAAWJ4ecAB4AJABAJgBT6ABsweqAQIxNLgBA8gBAPgBAZgCBqACugPCAgYQABgHGB7CAggQABgHGAgYHpgDAJIHATagB8wW&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#vhid=4sFduiXQ7Yh2IM&vssid=mosaic 93.148.11.229 (talk) 23:34, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It could have been. Digital displays were common by then. I doubt you'll find a reference for such a trivial question. Shantavira|feed me 08:20, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By 1980, digital watches were cheap enough that anyone could buy one. I got my first one in 1979. By 1983, they were so common and cheap that they began coming out with digital watches that also had games on them like PacMan. So, not only could he have had a digital watch, he could have had a digital watch with a soccer game built into it. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 15:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Zooming in on some of the better images, it looks a bit like a Swatch, which was launched in the spring of that year, but it's hard to be certain. Alansplodge (talk) 18:15, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like an analog watch to me. If I were a referee I would not like a digital display without seconds pointer that rounds off to the nearest whole minute and I get too much real soccer to need more pretend soccer game.Philvoids (talk) 10:16, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it's analogue. It is much quicker and easier to read an analogue watch. It's difficult enough to keep an eye on the action at the same time as timekeeping. Shantavira|feed me 10:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"It is much quicker and easier to read an analogue watch" Wouldn't that vary from person to person? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 18:49, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you assume that a digital watch wouldn't indicate seconds? I had a digital watch back then that could show hours, minutes, and seconds. And could also display the date or function as a stopwatch. (Not to mention that it could also transform into a toy robot.) --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 18:48, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I made no such categorical assumption and like not the provocative Straw man questioning. As a referee watching the conduct of 22 soccer players I would be merely irritated by a watch that keeps flashing ..53 54 55 56 57 58.. seconds, that threatens to turn into a toy robot or that shows phases of the Moon, whether you could buy such watches in 1983 or not. Philvoids (talk) 08:46, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 11

Monetary policy, attempt #2

OK, now that I've clarified where this question is coming from, here it is again: if the Federal Reserve was abolished, what effect would it have on the money supply? My educated guess as a non-expert is that it would greatly decrease the money supply -- is that correct? 2601:646:8082:BA0:E19D:4C11:C950:1DA8 (talk) 03:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Money is not created by the Federal Reserve, which is a system, but by banks providing credit to customers. I assume that "abolishing the Federal Reserve" also removes the banking regulation and supervision assigned by law to the Federal Reserve, and thereby the capital requirement that is meant to ensure that banks do not overextend the credits granted and remain solvent, that is, can honour their obligations to depositors. As the brakes are removed, the immediate effect is most likely a huge influx of newly created, easy money. The FDIC will be unable to keep providing deposit insurance, which depends on the assumption that the banks are regulated. Some banks will fail spectacularly and take others with them, and as depositors see their deposits are not safe they will want to see cash – bank runs will ensue. As banks go serially belly up and the economy contracts to a depression that becomes world-wide, the money that was abundantly available will dry up.  --Lambiam 05:50, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The abolition of the Fed would only arise under extreme political circumstances that cannot be ignored in favor of a purely economic answer, except in some fantasy world. In that world, the author would decide what would make a good story. In the real world, the most likely outcome would be a combination of hoarding and skyrocketing inflation, arising from a comprehensive loss of faith in both institutions and the currency. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 17:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are people who actually advocate the idea. Which is better, to ignore them, because they live in a fantasy world, or explain why this is maybe not the best idea, as long as the economy is still based on money?  --Lambiam 19:22, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the late reply (I was busy with other political stuff which mainly had to do with defending Israel and denouncing Hamas sympathizers as the terrorists they are) -- yes, I'm asking this question because me and my followers want to formulate an argument against abolishing the Fed and in favor of keeping it, but we want to make an argument based on national security considerations rather than purely economic ones! (And for how the money supply affects national security, see Balance of trade and Autarky, first and foremost!) 2601:646:8082:BA0:180E:97CC:ADFB:D01C (talk) 08:45, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 12

Tarot PDFs

Hi, I'm looking for tarot decks by renowned illustrators to print. Hebrew letter inclusion a plus. Temerarius (talk) 15:12, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are loads of images on Commons that are identified as being "Tarot". The image quality varies a lot, but it's a free option to start your search. Matt Deres (talk) 19:55, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 13

Enemies with wallrunning in single-player first-person shooters

I already saw the scrapped Pilot AI for Titanfall 2 single-player campaign many times and I wonder why that such thing were cut from TF|2 campaign and are there other first-person shooter single-player games where players have wallrunning ability and there are also enemies that have same abilities as you including wallrunning (much like the Evolved from Prototype 2 has similar set of abilities to the player)? And what is most difficult part for wallrunning in enemy AI to implement in a hypothetical singleplayer campaign of third Titanfall installment? 2001:448A:3070:E47D:A9C7:4A5A:80E5:29EF (talk) 11:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sign standards

ISO 7010 gives standards for signs. It includes prohibition signs (red border circles, most with a diagonal strikeout); Warning signs (red border triangles); Mandatory signs (blue circles); and emergency signs. Is there a standard for "Permissive signs"? (Eg the oppositite of "No dogs" being "Dogs are permitted" rather than "Dogs are required"? -- SGBailey (talk) 17:04, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ISO 7010 does not explicitly use the term "permissive signs", it does standardize a category of green "safe condition" signs that convey permitted or allowed actions. These signs typically have a green background with a white symbol or text. The design principles for these permissive symbols are outlined in ISO 3864-3,[1][2] --136.54.106.120 (talk) 20:44, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A green-background sign of a person showering does not mean "Showering permitted here", just like a sign  EXIT  does not mean one is granted permission to leave. These signs are meant to facilitate safety actions in case of emergency situations. Using signs that are similar in design to convey permitted or allowed actions not related to safety will dilute the intended signalling function of the ISO 7010 standard.  --Lambiam 06:47, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In free countries, at least, the lack of a warning or prohibiting sign would imply permission. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots21:10, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
However there are some situations - buildings, locations - where a sign could contradict assumptions, saying something like "photography permitted", "firearms permitted on premises", "designated smoking area", or "nude beach". Just in case anybody was being too meek.  Card Zero  (talk) 22:06, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In those cases, there is no lack of a sign. I'm reminded of an old story: A guy's looking for a parking space. He sees a bunch of parked cars. He asks a cop, "Can I park there?" The cop says, "No." The guy says, "What about those others?" The cop says, "They didn't ask." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots22:49, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the Highway Code, rectangular blue signs convey information. The signs you see on the approaches to roundabouts are rectangular - blue for motorways, green for primary routes, white for local routes. See [3]. 2A00:23D0:492:6301:40F:D36D:A5E5:18CB (talk) 15:13, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thinking of traffic signs in Europe (which are either basedon ISO or the other way around), that's the rule's the same here. If it's not prohibited by law or sign, it's allowed. There are only a few signs/signage that specifically mean allowed. For example, you can cross the street on a zebra crossing or a green light or you can just keep walking on your side. Or there's a square blue sign for recommended speed (I've only ever seen it painted on the pavement in city downtowns in situations where it's useless). There are also yellow lanes here marked for example BUS TAXI, which means that buses and taxis can drive there and no one else, but buses and taxis can obviously drive in other lanes too.
Of all signs except like stop signs these are the most ignored. People cross streets on red or walk next to zebra crossings, ignore recommended speeds in cars. Regular cars take shortcuts on taxi lanes and even public transport only lanes. Even ubers and similar drivers don't know that not all yellow lanes are for taxis (at least the 5-6 I've asked). Prohibitions and requirements seem to work better unless you just don't care (none of this creates noticeable problems in traffic as much as people bitch about it). 31.217.10.156 (talk) 00:38, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ISO 7001 includes a sign for "smoking allowed". It doesn't seem to have one for "dogs allowed".
ISO 7001 PI PF 015 Smoking area or smoking allowed; To signify where smoking is allowed
PF 015: Smoking area or smoking allowed
AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 14:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Smoking allowed is the image on a square white borderless sign (judging by looking at the image on this page). So maybe dogs are permitted would be the dog image on a white borderless square sign? -- SGBailey (talk) 19:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 15

Villa Park stadium, Birmingham (Euro '96)

Hello. I viewed the stadium during the football (soccer) Europeans in England in 1996 and noticed that there was the structure with the screen probably 'embedded'. But you can't see much; it seems to be switched off and out of use. Or maybe I saw it wrong? Thanks. https://inpho.ie/assignment/General-View-of-Villa-Park-home-of-Aston-Villa-1996/S3ANiiyk9NZgH77lNu-v-A..a 93.148.11.229 (talk) 16:18, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome. What is your question? RudolfRed (talk) 17:52, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, sorry I was not precise. If you look towards 12 o'clock in the picture (upwards) there seems to be something that looks like an electronic scoreboard, that's my impression. Or maybe it actually wasn't there and still needed to be installed? Because you can't really see much. Thank you.
This is the Aston Villa scoreboard in 1990. Alansplodge (talk) 20:26, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 18

McDonalds in Spain

You know how their utensils are made of wood? I have two questions: When was this change enacted, and what type of wood is it made out of?

Note: The specific McDonalds I’ve visited is the one at the BCN airport. 62.36.43.134 (talk) 11:41, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disposable plastic utensils have been banned in the EU since 2021. See Plastic_pollution#SPUD. PiusImpavidus (talk) 12:39, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Another question: Why does the logo have a green background instead of a red one? 62.36.43.134 (talk) 13:34, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The color green is used in many contexts to signify "environmentally friendly". Whether that's true or not is for you to judge (see Greenwashing). Xuxl (talk) 13:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This British manufacturer says that their wooden cutlery is made "from natural Birch Wood that is fully sustainable and FSC® (Forest Stewardship Council®) certified". According to this, China, Vietnam and Russia are the leading exporters of birch, with Germany being the leading EU exporter, although their output seems to be in the form of decorative veneers. Alansplodge (talk) 20:28, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How do you create a beach?

Kinda like the Barcelona Olympics or that one episode of Phineas and Ferb did. 62.36.43.134 (talk) 11:49, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With sand. See artificial beach. Shantavira|feed me 15:00, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 20

Why doesn't the "film template" include a section on age ratings or sequels and prequels?

~ ~ ~

This is a question that has been on my mind for several years. It would also be interesting to include sequels and prequels for navigation, and age classifications for added security.

Has there ever been a time when these details were included?

2607:FEA8:1044:EB00:6558:4709:EB5E:E5F6 (talk) 20:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The earliest discussion I've found of prequels and sequels in the infobox was WT:WikiProject Film/Archive 1#Movie sequels in the infobox .. in 2005, but there was no resolution. I'm guessing both of these questions have been discussed many times since: please search the archives of that WikiProject talk page. ColinFine (talk) 21:13, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Age ratings can change over time, and will tend to vary from region to region. Wikipedia is not censored for content, so I wonder what "added security" you're referring to? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots01:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You don't say which template, so I am going by {{Infobox film}}. That documention page explains why that infobox does not include the film's rating, and suggests that information should be in the article body instead. There is also a link to the discussion where prequels and sequels were removed from this infobox in 2011. RudolfRed (talk) 03:44, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Another approach is the "franchise" article, such as Star Wars. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots08:17, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 22

Hogwarts Express

I have a copy of J K Rowling's Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone printed in 1997 and another edition "published in September 2014". The penultimate leaf of the later volume includes this information:

There are other fractional platforms at King's Cross station (try seven and a half for a trip to wizard-only villages in Europe).

On the concourse yesterday I looked down the length of platforms 7 and 8 but didn't spot anything unusual. Do the books make reference to fractional platforms other than 9 3/4, where it was business as usual yesterday? 89.240.112.24 (talk) 12:41, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These platforms have been closed as a result of BREXIT! Even wizards can't handle the confusion... Try gate 7 1/2 at London City Airport for hourly departures of quddiches to the Black Forest and other destinations. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 14:04, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The publication of the Harry Potter novels, and especially their unexpected popularity leading to much Muggle curiosity about wizard affairs, caused great consternation at the Ministry of Magic. As a result, major changes have been made to those processes revealed by J. K. Rowling so that the Muggle world would not learn more. I find the recent reappearance of a steam locomotive, of a type that was last seen in 1965, very significant, and its supposed back story most suspicious. I mean, who - in this ecological day and age - is going to build a brand new coal-guzzling museum piece? However, to go any further would be WP:SPECULATION. See also JKR's Hogwarts: An Incomplete and Unreliable Guide for further information on London King's Cross. -- Verbarson  talkedits 22:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 23

China, Russia, and Genghis Khan

There is a theory I rarely see discussed, that attributes the lack of democracy in modern China and Russia, and the emphasis on violence and brutality, as part of the cultural inheritance of Genghis Khan that neither country has ever been able to shake. Is there an element of truth to this, that helps explain the continuing tradition of autocracy in that region, or is this a kind of pseudohistory? Viriditas (talk) 00:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot see how this can be discussed without breaching "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." 01:48, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
If there are history textbooks that address the idea, we could legitimately point to them and even summarise their theses. Something akin to it is utilised in the background setting of Donald Kingsbury's 1986 near-future science fiction novel The Moon Goddess and the Son, so it's been around for a while. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 151.227.226.178 (talk) 02:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think I found part of the answer attributed to historian Moshe Gammer. Katherine A. Maximick at the University of Victoria cites Gammer, writing "The Mongol conquest has been accused of disrupting the development of Russian culture and society, and the Mongols and Tatars blamed for Russia's backwardness compared to the rest of Europe." Is this considered a legitimate historical explanation? Yes or no? And do historians say the same for China? Or to put it another way, if the Mongol invasions and conquests didn't occur, how different would the world look today, particularly in regards to China and Russia, and their relationship with Europe and the west? Or to put it yet another way, can we point to Genghis Khan as the cause of our current geopolitical predicament? Viriditas (talk) 02:16, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article about Khan says he's reviled in Russia. Meanwhile, today's featured article leads to an article about the Komagata Maru incident, which was barely a century ago. Were the brutal British colonialists also influenced by Khan? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots02:18, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, not following you. Surprisingly, there are current academic books and papers out there that blame British Imperialism for just about everything. Viriditas (talk) 02:22, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In general, autocracy and brutality have been the norm throughout history. Democracy is exceptional. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots02:45, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’m aware. The question is why? Viriditas (talk) 03:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's been that way since the beginning of recorded history. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots03:42, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The rule of law is supposed to act as a check on autocracy and brutality. Viriditas (talk) 03:46, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The key word here is "supposed".  --Lambiam 07:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In China, Genghis Khan is often seen as the creator of China as a unified nation, even though the Song dynasty was only conquered after his death. In any case, the view is generally positive.  --Lambiam 08:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have never seen that expressed in any Chinese source. Nor – until today, right at the top of this thread – that anything (actual, supposed, or imputed) about modern China originated with Genghis Khan. Folly Mox (talk) 11:49, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There’s some info over at Poetry of Mao Zedong lending weight to what Lambiam was saying, but these may be older ideas from another generation: "Genghis Khan, whom the Chinese celebrate as the founder of the Yuan dynasty despite him never personally conquering China.” FWIW, Mao apparently killed more people in China than Khan. Viriditas (talk) 12:18, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did the Mongol conquest disrupt China’s development? Kublai Khan established the Yuan Dynasty in 1271. Without that, there would have been a different development that likely would have excluded Zheng He’s exploratory voyages and the incorporation of Mongolia into the empire. The Yuan was a time of great literary and artistic progress, as well as contact with Western, south Asian, and Middle Eastern empires. Religious diversity flourished, and China’s advances in science out-ran those of other parts of the world for several centuries. Hence, the short answer would appear to be no. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 00:39, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is the best way for me to get signatures for a petition?

I made a petition a while ago to bring a US business over to the UK. I am annoyed, as I can’t seem to figure out how to get people to sign it. It’s driving me crazy, and I’ve been in danger for getting into trouble for spam. How on earth am I meant to do this? I don’t have many friends on social media, and I am not very good at using it. How do I reach out to people? Thank you. Pablothepenguin (talk) 18:24, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You need to know your audience. Where would you most likely find the people who would sign your petition? See market research. Viriditas (talk) 19:37, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can’t find a good place. Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:22, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For the background to this question, see here. --Viennese Waltz 21:23, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, that was very helpful. Pablothepenguin, now that I have more information about your problem, there is good news and bad news. The bad news first: give up on the idea of petition for this, as you are using a butter knife to try and bring down a dinosaur. It's not the right tool for the job. Now for the good news: you sound like just the person who is a self-starter and willing to run their own business. You know what you want to do, but now all you need is a roadmap to make it happen. First thing you are going to need is a business plan. Your town will also have resources to help you, such as small-business associations, etc. In my specific area, there are yearly stipends available for certain kinds of businesses, but they usually aren't very much. For example, my state is trying to promote farming by offering land and cash, but it's pretty tough because you have to move and start from scratch. Anyway, there are also business incubator communities that you will want to join and get to know people in the network. I know, you said you aren't good face to face, but this is a way for you to learn. As for social media, check out the incredible, worldwide success of a young baker like Kitty Tait at the Orange Bakery. She's a hero to a lot of people, and you might want to check her out and her community online. I find her story inspirational. Those are the kinds of people you can learn from here. Viriditas (talk) 21:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What nonsense are you talking about? Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:45, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You sound too much like a shill. Could someone please direct me to a more reliable source of information? Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For courtesy, you can find the petition here: [www.change.org/MenchiesUK] Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'm shilling for Big Bread in the UK. All the way from Hawaii. Good luck with your future endeavors. Viriditas (talk) 21:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn’t talking about that, I was talking bout all the nonsense about running my own business. Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:58, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What part of it is nonsense? It's the same advice you were given in the other discussion. Reach out to the business community and network with them. Have a great day! Viriditas (talk) 22:01, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But I can’t do that. I’m too busy being poor and I don’t understand business technobabble. Pablothepenguin (talk) 22:03, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great. That's an opportunity for you to start learning. Recognize your flaws and deficiencies, and move forward by addressing them. Welcome to the business world. Viriditas (talk) 22:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why are you so keen on me getting into business? I’m not trying to start my own business you know, I just want to address an injustice in my country. One that offends me so greatly, I can’t even focus on my normal work. Pablothepenguin (talk) 22:07, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When you perceive that there is a lack of something and someone needs to do something, you are very often the best person for the job. Congratulations on your new position as CEO. Viriditas (talk) 22:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do need to raise awareness of this issue. It is eating at me and I’m not very happy these days because of it. Pablothepenguin (talk) 22:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, to get back to Kitty Tait up above, you might want to check out her book Breadsong. She was in the same boat as you until she started baking. Viriditas (talk) 22:19, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And before I forget, check out the inspirational story of Katie Fahey, one woman who changed the entire state of Michigan. You can do this. Viriditas (talk) 22:29, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for the positive comments. I really do appreciate them. For the sake of clarity, I will remind you that I see a great injustice in the world that breaks my brain. How can it be that there are tonnes of self-serve froyo places in the US, but I always have to ask a complete stranger to serve me in my locale? That’s the problem. Pablothepenguin (talk) 22:41, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know a lot about online petitions, but I do know something about franchising. I think it is doubtful that an online petition would make a difference. Have you been in touch with the company? Your first step (and perhaps you have already taken this) should be to reach out to the company to let them know that there is interest in the UK, and particularly in your area, in being able to patronize their outlets. Moving into a new country is a big and expensive decision, and learning that there is already interest is reassuring.
Evidence of that interest will help your case. But an online petition is not very good evidence, since an online petition can be signed from anywhere. That said, if the company tells you that there is a particular kind of evidence they are looking for, you might be able to act on that. John M Baker (talk) 22:49, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’ve just done that. I hope I can make a difference here. My sanity depends on it. My will to live is still just fine, but I sometimes worry it will weaken if I don’t see change soon. Pablothepenguin (talk) 22:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You should consider opening up your own froyo shop. Where I live, they do very well, provided there are tourists to buy them. And that's really what it comes down to for you as well. In business, this is called "foot traffic" (also geographic location). Combine these metrics with a good product and experience, and you have the recipe for success. Based on what John M. Baker said, you could contact the company and go from there. My guess is that they may want to hire you to help open a store. BTW, I kind of like "Ride or Die Froyo" as a potential name for a new business. It's catchy, memorable, and attracts a younger customer base. Just my two cents... Viriditas (talk) 23:01, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is hard, I’ve got a lot of other projects to work on. Projects, such as becoming a fine music producer, composing songs for commercial and kids’ entertainment, and sorting out my living arrangements. I am a very sensitive person, who just can’t stand the idea of the ice cream machine being locked away in a staff only area. Pablothepenguin (talk) 23:04, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What was the company's response when you reached out to them? John M Baker (talk) 23:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’ve only just sent to them. It will be a while yet for a response. Pablothepenguin (talk) 23:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I would not waste time on a Change.org petition. Are there local bulletin boards in your area that neighbors can use to connect? I'm thinking of something like Nextdoor. You could try posting something about the advantages of this kind of frozen yogurt shop and see if you get any responses. If several people post that, yes, they would love to see something like this, giving their own reasons and experiences, you could let the company know about that, so they could tell that it is not just one enthusiast's views. If the response is less positive, no need to bring the discussion to the company's attention. John M Baker (talk) 23:22, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Best thing I found is local Facebook pages. Pablothepenguin (talk) 23:43, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems like it can’t hurt to post something there. Probably best to be clear that this is not something you want to start (you have other vocational goals - no need to jump immediately into what they are), but something you want to see and patronize. John M Baker (talk) 23:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, in case you haven't heard of it, one of the most interesting hyper-small business, ice cream success stories in recent years is CVT Soft Serve. It's surprising they don't have their own article. Keep in mind, they are your antagonists, as they are vociferously anti-froyo, but it's important to be aware of their business model.[4] Frankly, it's fascinating, so take some time to explore their website. They started with a simple food truck (you should seriously consider this), and have expanded to frozen products in the supermarket freezer aisle, and full-service machines. They also do major catering events. Their success is due to diversification into multiple revenue streams. Viriditas (talk) 23:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 24


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