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: The problem is that I do not know whether he wants to declare a binding process for all Wikipedias (and whether their respective maintainers would want that to happen), or just for the English one. For the time being, I consider this a project that is the result of the chaos on the English Wikipedia list in the last weeks, and unless Jimbo says otherwise, consider the results of our discussion primarily relevant to the EW, with adoption of our conclusions by the other Wikipedias being an option. --[[User:Eloquence|Eloquence]] 22:50 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC) |
: The problem is that I do not know whether he wants to declare a binding process for all Wikipedias (and whether their respective maintainers would want that to happen), or just for the English one. For the time being, I consider this a project that is the result of the chaos on the English Wikipedia list in the last weeks, and unless Jimbo says otherwise, consider the results of our discussion primarily relevant to the EW, with adoption of our conclusions by the other Wikipedias being an option. --[[User:Eloquence|Eloquence]] 22:50 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC) |
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Perhaps polls on binding policy issues should be left open indefinately and people allowed to change their registered vote. This would allow newcomers an immediate voice while also providing long term flexibility to allow the community to drift appropriately with the prevailing weather. |
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The results of these polls should be summarized concisely and presented to newcomers and users as per Mav's and Axel's suggestions regarding the edit submittal form. Both a concise form and the long form could be required to initiate the poll so people know exactly what they are voting for and how it will be presented to the community and public at large.[[User:Mirwin|mirwin]] |
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okay, as much as I am personally convinced that a decision making process is necessary, I play the advocatus diaboli now (feel free to move stuff into the article)
that's it, for the moment. --Elian
1) Our goal is to arrive at a final decision about the process, made by Jimbo. I'm not sure to which extent such a decision should/can be made for the non-English Wikipedias, but they can certainly adopt it.
2) This is a minor issue -- if nobody wants to implement the system we agree on, we can always pool money to pay someone to do it.
3,4,5) These belong as proposals in the article.
3) Except for Jimbo and possibly other people at Bomis, who should be able to veto what and why?
4) If we use voting, the "body of unalterable things" can still be alterable, but simply with a significantly stronger majority. I don't think unalterable rules are ever a good idea.
5) I have no problem with posting polls to announce-l, but there should also be a "Recent polls" list on Wikipedia itself for those who don't want to subscribe to the list. --Eloquence 16:19 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)
That comment
In other cases, a small minority might manage to get a particular change implemented for the simple reason that most people do not take notice of it and therefore do not decide to oppose it. The majority may then, eventually, be surprised by a change that nobody really wanted. ...
...should not be seen as a particular drawback of consensus making process. It is related to poor information, not to this specific process. A vote which is not advertised, or with a very short voting time, can lead to making a decision which was not desired by the majority just as well.
This issue can be solved by making clear what discussions are currently under way, and when they seem to be coming to a final consensual decision.
This comment is "not" a valid argument against consensus ahma.
Why in the world is this on the English Wikipedia and not Meta when this grew from a post from the general policy mailing list? Wouldn't such a process be used by the entire project or just en.wiki? --mav 21:09 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)
Perhaps polls on binding policy issues should be left open indefinately and people allowed to change their registered vote. This would allow newcomers an immediate voice while also providing long term flexibility to allow the community to drift appropriately with the prevailing weather.
The results of these polls should be summarized concisely and presented to newcomers and users as per Mav's and Axel's suggestions regarding the edit submittal form. Both a concise form and the long form could be required to initiate the poll so people know exactly what they are voting for and how it will be presented to the community and public at large.mirwin
