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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
This is possibly a hoax. I've moved the discussion over from the hoax talk page to save time. This is my reasoning:
While attempting to WP:DEORPHAN the article on Ahmed Farah Dualeh, I noticed an inconsistency. The article states that he is the President of Jubaland, whereas Jubaland has Ahmed Madobe as the president in the infobox. The results of my research were: Google: I could not find any reliable sources to support the claim that he is the president of Jubaland, or even that he exists. Most sources are either clones of Wikipedia or social media accounts.
JSTOR: Searching "Ahmed Farah Dualeh" in quotes had zero results. Searching "Ahmed Dualeh" in quotes had a six results. Some of the results are about Elmi Ahmed Dualeh, which I initially believed that "Elmi" was some sort of Somalian title, which I wasn't familar with. However, it is not, as the papers refer to Elmi Ahmed Duale. One result, Against All Odds: The History of Archaeological Research in Somaliland and Somalia, says The most remarkable of these students is Ahmed Dualeh Jama, who published his PhD on Mogadishu; so talks about a different person who has the same first and middle name. The article was created, with the claim that he is the president of Jubaland, over fourteen years ago.
However, after this discussion I would keep. Following on from research, I would !vote to Merge this article with Præsidenten fra Nordvest. The documentary is independently notable with the Danish sources I've found. Most of the sources I've found on Dualeh tie his notability to the film. Svampesky (talk) 18:58, 11 June 2024 (UTC); modified 16:35, 12 June 2024 (UTC); modified 14:37, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Searching the Somali form of his name, Axmed Faarax Ducaale, does turn up a few hits that support his work with the Somali community in Denmark, notably this call-in segment on VOA Somali. 2018 visit to Garbahare (described as an expatriate), 2015 comments on Ethiopian intervention in Gedo (described as a politician), and a 2014 conference of intellectuals (described as speaking for the Sade community). There's also a 2013 news blog describes him as "Foreign President of the Jubbaland State Administration" (not WP:RS) and a link to a compromised URL that the search headline seems to be describing him as the "self-proclaimed president of Jubbaland." He's listed in this 2010 press release about a Somali community meeting in Denmark. There was also a 2011 talk group post calling for him to be declared president of Jubbaland; and here's a 2012 talk group post describing him as president.
Overall, it seems likely that he is a real person and the article is largely accurate in describing his work in Denmark. The claim that he was/is president of Jubbaland is not supported (though it seems there is a group that, at least in 2011/2012, recognized him as president). It might be possible to cobble together enough sources to meet WP:N, but the statement about being president is definitely more aspirational than actual. —Carter (Tcr25) (talk) 20:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was unable to find the documentary available anywhere. The production company is listed on IMDb as Film & TV-Compagniet ApS, which translates to "Film & TV Company Ltd." I'm assuming (hoping) it's a does what it says on the tin company. I found their contact information here and I'll email them to request a free copy of the film for the purpose of editing Wikipedia. Before I do this, could anyone advise whether this might go against any Wikipedia policies, such as conflict of interest, primary sources, or original research? The documentary could provide valuable insights and guide where to look on further research for the article. Svampesky (talk) 16:46, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a hoax, but "Jubaland" is a bit misleading here. In ~2010, Somalia was embroiled in a certain civil war (it's still ongoing); much of the region of Jubaland was (and still is) occupied by al-Shabaab. One consequence of this is that a bunch of self-declared mini-states were established, many with competing claims and no de-facto control. This article from Somalia Report has more detail on the mini-states and mentions Dualeh as the president of a "Jubbaland (2)"; this other Somalia Report article contains an interview with Dualeh, who established his claim in January 2012 in the US. This claim obviously didn't go very far; other claims like Azania, which was initially supported by Kenya during its invasion of southern Somalia to oust al-Shabaab, had more success. There are other sources as well; for example, here's an interview with Dualeh in which he talks about being the "president of Jubaland" at around 1:20. He also appears in Danish media (where he's based), like Jyllands-Posten[3][4] and this in-depth profile of him in POV International[5], and has an X profile [6].
Here's how a Danish newspaper interview/report describes his "presidency" when talking about the movie: "In 2012, Danish-Somali Ahmed Dualeh was elected by exiled Somalis as president of the regions Gedo, Middle Jubba and lower Jubba, which together make up Jubaland in the civil war-torn country of Somalia, and it is precisely this story that DR tells in the new documentary." (via Google Translate). —Carter (Tcr25) (talk) 20:22, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone ahead and reworked that section of the article (and removed the infobox) to reflect what's in these sources. More work and sourcing on the rest of the piece is needed, but I would say keep while acknowledging the article needs improvement. —Carter (Tcr25) (talk) 15:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My !vote remains "keep". I disagree with the nominator's statement that "most of the sources I've found on Dualeh tie his notability to the film": profiles of Dualeh like [7], [8], and [9] make little reference to the documentary about him at all, and even if a source like [10] does refer to it, that in no way implies that the documentary is the cause of his notability—clearly, it's his life story that is of interest.
These profiles of Dualeh show that he meets WP:GNG, so WP:NPOL is not relevant here per WP:BASIC. I also have to mention that the documentary itself is a reliable source with (a lot of) WP:SIGCOV—most people are not the subject of an hour-long documentary about them!
In my opinion, none of the sources cited in this discussion prove that the documentary itself is notable per WP:NFILM, so I'm not sure why we'd merge this article into the documentary's article. None of the linked articles provide independent (DR isn't in this case), significant coverage of the film per WP:NFILM (e.g. a film review or a detailed discussion of the filming process); instead, they all discuss Dualeh rather than the documentary itself. That isn't to say that the documentary isn't notable, as reviews of the documentary like [11], [12], and [13] do exist, but it needs to be shown that they meet the nationally known critic standard of WP:NFILM. Malerisch (talk) 01:53, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Request Per advice from my mentor Special:Diff/1228772919, I would like to withdraw the AfD, but Walsh90210's singular delete !vote is preventing me from doing so. It cites there are no sources, but sources have now been found. Would you be willing to review your !vote? I'm NOT asking you to change your !vote. If you still think the article should be deleted, that's fine. It's not the end of the world if the AfD runs for seven days. Svampesky (talk) 13:54, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is definitely not a hoax; it is about an actual person. But I am not withdrawing my vote, it is not sufficiently clear that this person is notable (and *definitely* not clear that he and the film about him are separately notable); I would prefer discussion continue. In particular, his "political career" does not meet WP:NPOL. Walsh90210 (talk) 20:29, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great to hear. To clarify, I was not requesting you to change your vote. Rather, I was informing you to review the sources that were presented following your statement about the absence of sources. I've changed my !vote to merge, for reasons listed in my edited opening statement. Svampesky (talk) 14:38, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep it is heartening to see such a great example of research and cooperation on wiki. The three sources linked by Malerisch ([14], [15], and [16]) especially convinced me that this person is independently notable. I'm not sure if the film is notable as well, but that's not the point of this AfD. Toadspike[Talk]10:51, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
