Talk:Battle of Busan
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Exaggeration on strength and casualties of Japanese forces[edit]
Since the Japanese naval forces only had less than 10,000 personnel, the statement of 70,000 of naval strength of Japanese forces in this battle is quire an exaggeration. Also, 5,000 casualties is not recorded (as far as I read). Comparing the original strength and the damage Japanese naval forces caught (128 or 400 "empty" ships), the statement of 5,000 casualties is quire unlikely. Wiki Humanities Arao (talk) 16:32, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
[edit]
In the previous naval battles, the Japanese naval forces realized that they needed to avoid the battles over sea against the Josen naval forces due to difference on the tactics between them. Japanese naval forces' tactics was boarding, on the other hand, the Josen naval forces' tactics was utilization of fire arrows. Although the Josen naval forces introduced cannons on their ships, their firing rage was limited only around 100 meters and was not the main force. Due to such background, the Japanese forces avoided naval combat. Wiki Humanities Arao (talk) 16:32, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Combat in the battle[edit]
Since the Japanese forces avoided naval combat and preferred on land combat, and since the objective of the Josen forces was recovery of Busan bay then cutoff of the Japanese supply lines, the main combat was taken place on land. Then since the Japanese forces attacked the Josen forces from the higher place, the Josen forces were not able to defeat the Japanese forces then were needed to retreat. Firing empty 128 or 400 Japanese ships was collateral in this combat. Wiki Humanities Arao (talk) 16:32, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
[edit]
Once Japanese navy saw Korean navy, they withdrawed from navy while abandoning their own ships. They tried to withdraw and protect in land.≠ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ichrio Nazuki (talk • contribs) 08:53, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
External links modified[edit]
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Wrong title[edit]
Shouldn't it be, like, Battle of Busan (1594)?--Smashfanful (talk) 12:16, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
A Japanese strategic victory?[edit]
- I wrote "Joseon victorynavy destroyed part of the Japanese navy, but failed to capture Busan and withdrew" without using the expression "victory" in order to incorporate both claims. This is not ignoring consensus. たたたたたたたたったポンタ (talk) 10:00, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
- That is not how the infobox works. Please consult Template:Infobox military conflict.
this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive". The term used is for the "immediate" outcome of the "subject" conflict and should reflect what the sources say. In cases where the standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail (such as "See the Aftermath section"). Such a note can also be used in conjunction with the standard terms but should not be used to conceal an ambiguity in the "immediate" result. Do not introduce non-standard terms like "decisive", "marginal" or "tactical", or contradictory statements like "decisive tactical victory but strategic defeat". Omit this parameter altogether rather than engage in speculation about which side won or by how much.
Qiushufang (talk) 10:06, 21 March 2023 (UTC)- Got it. Then, should I write "Inconclusive" in the result column and "Joseon navy destroyed part of the Japanese navy, but failed to capture Busan and withdrew" in the annotation? たたたたたたたたったポンタ (talk) 10:21, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
- No, it is clear that you are fighting against consensus over the past few days and your behaviour of tendentious editing needs to stop. Qiushufang (talk) 10:55, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hi there. Watching randomly articles I've tweaked in the past, kinda interesting act y'all're engaging here?
- I'm curious about how you can make the battle where the Joseon Dynasty herself recognized "not won" to her victory.
- According to the Veritable Records of the Joseon Dynasty[1], "李舜臣等攻釜山賊屯, 不克", and also "水兵不能下陸、乃燒空船四百餘艘而退", Joseon navy couldn't land Busan and what they could was to burn amazingly over 400 vessels!! And it also sais "鹿島萬戶鄭運居前力戰, 中丸死", one of their general killed by enemy's bullet, during just burning unmanned ships there.
- The references which are your fave say such battle is Joseon's victory don't they? Wow! Today I knew the lowly self-consciousness of participants whether victory or defeated can be negligible in front of the great books written by people of later times who can become judges beyond the time space, regardless of the participants!!
- Anyway I'm still curious about how they goes and have researched some of them.
- At the first, I checked the Nanjung ilgi (乱中日記) translated by Kitajima, the sole edition which is accessible by laymen in Japan; as the result, the book lacks the 9th month of 1592 to the 1st month of 1593. This battle is occurred in the 1st day of the 9th month, and it doesn't tell anything about this battle.
- On "Chester W. Nimitz, New York Times, Oct, 10, 1944"[2], at least there aren't any mention of battle of Busan on the part we can read without payment.
- James B. Lewis (2014) goes "In spite of the loss of Chŏng Un, one of Yi's staff who was shot during the battle, Yi achieved an enormous victory in sinking over 100 ships in this one battle alone." This part doesn't have any references, I think whether the author think that is victory or not is personal freedom, but when the time he asserts it is superior than thoughts of belligerents themselves, I shall make an objection.
- https://www.routledge.com/products/9781138786639 is dead copy of the above. Never dilute man. 😓
- Samuel Hawley (2005) is inaccessible from web, I can't confirm the page 251. Could you please present how Hawley judged this is Joseon victory? I suspect it is a historical novel, or not descent research though...
- http://iss.ndl.go.jp/books/R100000002-I000008547764-00 is dead copy of the above. No again! 👿
- This Korean text is the letter attached to the Nanjung ilgi. As regards damage to the enemy it just says"적선100여척을 3도로 여러 장수들이 힘을 모아 깨뜨렸습니다 (→Generals of the 3 provinces combined their power and destroyed over 100 enemy ships)". They constantly never say it was victory against Japan.
- 亂中日記草 ; 壬辰状草 is based on same manuscript of the Nanjung ilgi mentioned above, which is once owned by Governor-General of Korea, and must lack the 9th month of 1592 through 1st month of the next year too.
- Turnbull (2002), 金永 (2008), 片野 (1983) and 藤居 (1982) don't show the page where whether and how they won or lose is written. They are unrecognizable as a reference.
- I wonder do you yet can think these are the absolute insurance certificates that guarantee victory of the glorious Joseon dynasty?--荒巻モロゾフ (talk) 11:50, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
- No, it is clear that you are fighting against consensus over the past few days and your behaviour of tendentious editing needs to stop. Qiushufang (talk) 10:55, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
- Got it. Then, should I write "Inconclusive" in the result column and "Joseon navy destroyed part of the Japanese navy, but failed to capture Busan and withdrew" in the annotation? たたたたたたたたったポンタ (talk) 10:21, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
- That is not how the infobox works. Please consult Template:Infobox military conflict.
References
- ^ Hawley, Samuel (2005), The Imjin War, The Royal Asiatic Society, Korea Branch/UC Berkeley Press, 326, ISBN 89-954424-2-5
- ^ Diary entry for 18/2/Kyesa (Mar. 20, 1593), Yi Sun-sin, Nanjung ilgi, 16.
- ^ 51 Japanese ships destroyed while less than 5 Korean ships destroyed
- ^ Hawley, Samuel (2005), The Imjin War, The Royal Asiatic Society, Korea Branch/UC Berkeley Press, 376, ISBN 89-954424-2-5
- ^ The Collection of Yi Chungmugong(李忠武公全書), volume 4, report 3
- ^ 31 Japanese ships destroyed while none of Korean ships destroyed
- ^ Turnbull, Stephen. The Samurai Invasion of Korea 1592–98 (Campaign) (p. 157). Bloomsbury Publishing.
- ^ Times, Telephone To the New York (1944-10-10). "Nimitz Startles Reporters With Communique Of Victory Off Korea, Adds It Was in 1592". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331.
- ^ James B. Lewis, The East Asian War, 1592-1598 ; International relations, violence, and memory, Routledge Press, 126p (2014)
- ^ "Routledge".
- ^ Samuel Hawley, The Imjin War, Royal Asiatic Society, Korea Branch ; Institute of East Asian Studies, University of California, 251p (2005)
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