This page is not a forum for general discussion about Cinco de Mayo. Any such comments may be removedorrefactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Cinco de Mayo at the Reference desk. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on 20 dates. [show] |
This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 13 times. The weeks in which this happened: |
This article has been mentioned by a media organization:
|
|
|||
"While Cinco de Mayo has limited significance nationwide in Mexico, the date is observed in the United States and other locations around the world as a celebration of Mexican heritage and pride.[8] While Cinco de Mayo is not Mexico's Independence Day,[9] it is the most important national patriotic holiday in Mexico.[10]"
These two sentences are completely contradictory. I fixed it. The second part was a vandal edit.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.231.37.26 (talk) 18:32, 29 April 2013 (UTC)Reply
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!! "The Mexican victory, however, was short-lived. A year later, with 30,000 troops, the French were able to defeat the Mexican army, capture Mexico City". Nice. On which Mai Day do we celebrate on the side of the French?? Vive La France!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.178.137.210 (talk) 20:45, 5 May 2020 (UTC)Reply
"Events after the Battle
The Mexican victory, however, was short-lived. Thirty thousand troops and a full year later, the French were able to depose the Mexican army, capture Mexico City, and establish Emperor Maximilian I as ruler of Mexico.[14] However, the French victory was also short-lived, lasting only 3 years, from 1864 to 1867. With the U.S. Civil War over in 1865, the U.S. was able to provide more assistance to Mexico to expel the French, after which Maximilian I was executed by the Mexicans, along with his Mexican generals Miramón and Mejía, in the Cerro de las Campanas, Queretaro.[14][19] Significance
The Battle of Puebla was important for at least two reasons. First, although considerably outnumbered, the Mexicans defeated a Kim Cullelar and Tracy Patterson. "This battle was significant in that the 4,000 Mexican soldiers were greatly outnumbered by the well-equipped French army of 8,000 that had not been defeated for almost 50 years."[20][21] Second, it was significant because since the Battle of Puebla no country in the Americas has been invaded by a European military force.[22]"
The two paragraphs seem to contradict by saying that no country in the Americas has been invaded by a European military force since the Battle of Puebla. The preceeding section says that the French used thirty-thousand troops and a full year following the battle of Puebla to complete the invasion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrNailbat (talk • contribs) 22:29, 5 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
Yes, exactly. I was just going to post the same comment. I am inserting a parenthetical phrase to acknowledge this, but I don't think that's a very satisfactory solution -- this "Significance" section should be significantly rewritten, or even removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidlchandler (talk • contribs) 16:13, 8 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
I agree, it's incorrect to say "since the Battle of Puebla no country in the Americas has been invaded by a European military force" when it was only after the Second Battle of Puebla that no country in the Americas has been invaded by a European military force. Preceding comment added by me :).
Cinco de Mayo is NOT A HOLIDAY anywhere. No country, state, or government has declared it a holiday. It is a celebration, and/or cultural observation. All references to the word "holiday" should be removed from this article. Karialaine1967 (talk) 16:14, 5 May 2016 (UTC)Reply
It is not a Mexican Holiday. It is not an American Holiday and is not observed or celebrated nationwide in America. It may be used as an excuse to drink by individuals who only see commercials and do not know the history. Vive la France!
"Cinco de Mayo (Spanish for "fifth of May") is a celebrated in the United States and primarily limited to the state of Puebla in Mexico.[1][2] The holiday commemorates the Mexican army's unlikely victory over French forces at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862, under the leadership of Mexican General Ignacio Zaragoza Seguín.[3][4]"
I can understand that there have been some strong disagreements over whether the day is celebrated more in the US than it is in Mexico. Perhaps it is due to large populations of Mexican-American citizens and other residents in the US. In any case, the leading sentence is woefully inadequate, confusing, and borders on contradictory. When an opening statement of this nature causes controversey, then it is not suitable for Wikipedia. We must start with something that can be stipulated or assumed, and then work in the not-so-obvious information...
"cinco De Mayo (Spanish for "fifth of May") is an observed celebration day that commemorates the Mexican army's unlikely victory over French forces at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862, under the leadership of Mexican General Ignacio Zaragoza Seguín. While not an "obligatory federal holiday" in Mexico, it is celebrated primarily in the state of Puebla in Mexico, and in the United States."
--T-dot ( Talk/contribs ) 12:12, 4 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
I agree with these edits (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cinco_de_Mayo&action=historysubmit&diff=359629238&oldid=357533309) by Lord Hawk to a point. However, I have to agree even more with T-dot. S/he has shown s/he is not looking to revert Lord Hawk's edits but to come to some reasonable middle ground. In particular, we should all know that a monumental change like the one made by Lord Hawk, where the perspective represents a full 180-degree about-face change, should at a minimum been brought to the Discussion page first - specially when you are just 2 days away from the calendar Cinco de Mayo day, and Lord Hawk should had known the article is obviously bound to get far many more hits. So why the rush...to (potentially) mislead (potentially) masses?
A few points:
I have thus adopted T-dot's proposal in the hope that this wording is agreeable by most. Mercy11 (talk) 01:26, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Eh. It was like that way for a year or two before some Americans decided to change it. They always mess with it around May and try and justify that it is a Mexican holiday.
I must ask, why this article is written almost with -reverence- about the 5th of May. All the Mexicans I know (about 5) insist that Cinco de Mayo is an unimportant holiday. Further, if it's to be celebrated in the United States, along with St. Patrick's day, Octoberfest, etc., then the United States should drop Cinco de Mayo OUT OF RESPECT for the Mexican people and celebrate the 16th of September. Cinco de Mayo is (probably) entirely the 'production' of Corona Beer or something like it. To write this entry about the "United States" in terms of something entirely Mexican, is the very travesty Americans should seek to avoid. Something about gabachos and such. If the editors of this article want to write about the day, it should focus on Mexico, and not contain information about the US, unless the commercial character of the 5th of May is made a part of this article.Mark Preston (talk) 22:04, 5 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
I request that references to it being "celebrated in the United States" be removed. This makes it appear that Americans of non-Mexican heritage are celebrating this holiday, which is not true. And it is also not celebrated by all Americans with Mexican heritage. I propose instead that it read "sometimes celebrated outside of Mexico by people of Mexican heritage." Or even better yet, the reference to where it is celebrated could be removed entirely. French people living in other countries probably continue to celebrate French holidays, Americans living overseas may still celebrate Thanksgiving, etc. 206.180.154.82 (talk) Anonymous Texan (with Mexican heritage!) —Preceding undated comment added 19:26, 2 May 2012 (UTC).Reply
The text talks about Cinco de Mayo being the final invasion of the American Continent by a foreign power... however, it was not the last battle. The invasion continued, resulting in the conquest of Mexico. So... from an invasion standpoint, Cinco de Mayo is completely irrelevant. Needs either rewritten or deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ijecharles (talk • contribs) 22:55, 4 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
As the footnote in References states, "Note that since Cinco de Mayo no army from another continent has invaded the Americas. The War of the Falklands War, for example, was fought in the Americas but the Islands were invaded by a military from the Americas (the Argentine military). They were subsequently attacked (not invaded) by the UK. Another example, Pearl Harbor, experienced an attack, not an invasion by the Japanese. The only possible exception to the Cinco de Mayo claim above might be the brief occupation/invasion of two of the Alaskan Aleutian Islands by the Japanese military during WWII. This event, however, was so insignificant as to be virtually negligible: the islands invaded had a total population of 12 Americans and some 45 natives, the invasion was short-lived, and the battle fought there had no notoriety other than the psychological effect on the Americans that the Japanese had invaded American territory again (Alaska was not yet a full-fledged state). In short, the military importance of this small, frozen piece of "land" was nowhere comparable to superior military significance of the Battle of Puebla."
As for the statement that "the British invaded the Falkland Islands after they were seized by Argentina", this is not correct. The way history registers the events leading to the [[Falklands War] is that it was Argentina that invaded the Islands, with the British responding militarily to retake (not invade) the islands. As such, there was no invasion by an European power, but by a power from the Western Hemisphere.
Mercy11 (talk) 21:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
I know this piece of the talk page is old, but this still needs to be addressed somehow. Since the French intervention continued (and did NOT start with this battle), I could also choose any subsequent battle in the war and say the same thing (that no foreign power invaded the Americas following it), even including the Second Battle of Puebla, which was a loss for Mexico. Saying that one battle in a war that Mexico LOST is significant because no more foreign powers invaded just seems like trying to make this much more significant than it was. 208.126.138.31 (talk) 15:26, 4 May 2015 (UTC)Reply
{{editsemiprotected}} Please add:
"The CocoRosie song "Lemonade", from their 2010 album "Grey Oceans", refers to the date in it's opening line; "It was Cinco de Mayo..."
To popular culture references. Thank you XLM (talk) 00:06, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
A quintessential band and orchestra piece in the U.S. that's popular with audiences and enjoyed by performers, played not only on Cinco de Mayo, is "Malagueña_(song)". Depending on the arrangement, it usually has a very rhythmically interesting and exciting bass line accompaniment. Some tuba players, such as I, have said that the beginning of Malagueña reminds them of the beginning of "Mars, the Bringer of War" -- the first Movement from Gustav_Holst's seven movement orchestral suite, "The_Planets." Jon L. Slate (talk) 04:50, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
This piece has also been used for the title track for Star Trek - The Undiscovered Planet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.122.83.180 (talk) 14:30, 5 May 2020 (UTC)Reply
repeats itself. The second paragraph just repeats the first. Is such nonsense protection worthy?--24.85.68.231 (talk) 06:48, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Stating that Cinco de Mayo is significant for two reasons, and one being it was the last time the Americans had been attacked by a foreign army, downplays the attack in the Aleutian Islands (which were also occupied by Japanese forces for a time). I feel that while the cited article says that this was insignificant, it is still true. Therefore, I request we remove that as a reason Cinco de Mayo is significant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gazanga (talk • contribs) 12:44, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
The Japanese invasion may not be comparable to superior military significance of the Battle of Puebla, as the editorial claims, but the fact remains that it was the last invasion of the Americas by a foreign military power. Therefore, I once again suggest that we get our facts straight and rewrite the sentence to "The invasion of Puebla was the last time that a 'European" power invaded America". Tony the Marine (talk) 23:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Some of the sources I checked state this was the last time an "European power" invaded "North America". Others state this was the last time an "European power" invaded "The Americas". Some sources go further to state this was the last time a "foreign power" invaded "The Americas". No source I found state the Alaska/Aleuthian Islands attack by the Japanese to have been the last time a foreign power invaded the Americas or even just North America. Thus the text as it stands now is correct. Written differently would be a violation of WP:OR. Mercy11 (talk) 18:22, 11 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
I think the whole sentence should be thrown out. For example, a year later, the French re-invaded Mexico and installed Maximillian. The fact that this is mentioned in the paragraph directly above the statement about no more invasions makes it worse. Drunaii (talk) 16:48, 11 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
I agree with you that sources state the French re-invaded. However, though the French may have re-invaded, history still views 5 de Mayo as the last time a foreign power invaded the Americas... Historians look at the re-invasion as part of the whole French intervention in Mexico campaign and not as a separate event on its own right. We cannot concoct our own generalizations; that would also be WP:OR. Mercy11 (talk) 18:22, 11 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
{{editsemiprotected}}
Under Observances: Elsewhere someone edited the article to say grade 12 highschool students will be drinking all day today.
24.161.2.187 (talk) 14:19, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Please eliminate "Grade 12 High school students in Ottawa will be drinking all day today". 72.152.223.250 (talk) 14:31, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
One of this page's regular editors should remove or correct this sentence: 『In 1861, Benito Juárez stopped making interest payments to countries that Mexico owed large amounts of marijuana to.』 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.74.13.100 (talk) 16:24, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Quote from wiki article: "While Cinco de Mayo has limited significance nationwide in Mexico, the date is observed in the United States and other locations around the world as a celebration of Mexican heritage and pride.[8] While Cinco de Mayo is not Mexico's Independence Day,[9] it is the most important national patriotic holiday in Mexico.[10]"
The last sentence is not just misleading, it is wrong and not only does it contradict the sentence directly before it, it isn't even what the the source it cites (source [10]) says. Source [10] is this article http://www.alpineavalanche.com/articles/2008/05/01/news/news03.txt. In which it says, "A common misconception in the United States is that Cinco de Mayo is Mexico's Independence Day; Mexico's Independence Day is actually September 16 (dieciséis de septiembre), which is the most important national patriotic holiday in Mexico."
September 16th, Mexico's Independence Day is the most important national patriotic holiday in Mexico, not Cinco de Mayo. Now I don't know much about editing wiki pages, especially if they are semi protected like this one, otherwise I'd do it myself. But this is pretty obviously wrong and somebody should fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.42.177.164 (talk) 17:14, 5 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
In the introductory description of Cinco de Mayo, it is described at a "voluntarily-observed" holiday. Does this make sense to anyone? Are there "forcefully-observed"? I think that language can be tweaked so that it elicits fewer Orwellian allusions. Holidays are essential "recognized" by various levels of state or religious institutions. Maybe they have "forcefully-observed" holidays in North Korea, but I don't think the phrase "voluntarily-observed" gives any level of context. - Gwopy 20:46, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
It means that it is not officially recognized.
{{editsemiprotected}}
The number of French troops is incorrect. Most sources report only about 6000, rather than 8000 were present. One such source would be:
http://www.pbs.org/kpbs/theborder/history/timeline/10.html
74.197.151.250 (talk) 05:38, 6 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Not done: Welcome and thanks for pointing that out. The current text is a quote from one of the sources and can't simply be changed. Can you provide text to replace the quote? Also, you may want to find more examples of "most sources" if you want to remove the newspaper source. The current tally is one source, a PBS web page, which says 6000 and one source, a newspaper, which says 8000. Celestra (talk) 13:27, 6 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
None of the items in the "Popular Culture References" section seem, IMO, to meet the criteria in WP:IPC. Is there any reason we should keep that section? I'm strongly inclined to nuke it, but I thought I'd ask for opinions... -- Narsil (talk) 00:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
I would like to point out that the statement "While Cinco de Mayo sees limited significance and celebration nationwide in Mexico, the date is observed nationwide in the United States and other locations around the world as a celebration of Mexican heritage and pride" lists a reference to [8]; going to the link provided labeled as "statement from a Mexican official" takes you to an article from 2007 that quotes no such offical, nor does it indicate a national movement in the United States as a celebration of Mexican heritage and pride.
Thank you.
Montoyad73 (talk) 01:22, 7 May 2010 (UTC)Montoyad73Reply
I have unprotected the article. Please keep in mind that all additions to the article must cite verifiable reliable sources. Changes made to the article must be within reason and justified. Provide an explanation in the "edit summary". Most important of all, refrain from vandalizing the article, This is no place for childish behavior. Thank you all. Tony the Marine (talk) 14:48, 10 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
The section titled "Consequences to the United States" needs serious revision. The portions in quotations are of debatable accuracy. It is doubtful that the Battle of Puebla kept the French out of the US Civil War. The Battle of Antietam in September 1862 and the subsequent Emanciation Proclamation on January 1, 1863 were more effective in keeping out the French (and British). Intervention after January 1, 1863 would have meant fighting to defend slavery. While the Union Army may have been the largest and most advanced army in the world at the end of the Civil War, calling it the "greatest army the world had ever seen" seems overkill. Size and technological superiority do not always equal victory as is shown by the Battle of Puebla among many other battles. Nor is it accurate to state that the Union army "smashed the Confederates at Gettysburg...essentially ending the Civil War." The Civil War lasted almost two years after the end of the Battle of Gettysburg. And Gettysburg, though a Union victory, can hardly be called a smashing. It was a near-run thing which the Confederates almost won several times. The Confederate army, though beaten, was still a potent force and defeated the Union army several times after Gettysburg. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HarryC123 (talk • contribs) 16:35, 10 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Yes, that was what I intended. Thank you. This was my first attempt to comment on a Wikipedia article and I had trouble with the interface. I hope this is done correctly.
Nothing I said constitutes original research. I am not a professional historian. I have been interested in Civil War history since reading Bruce Catton's "A Stillness At Appomattox" about 50 years ago. I would cite that first for what happened to the victorious Union army after the Battle of Gettysburg. Bruce Catton's three volume "Centennial History of the Civil War" and Shelby Foote's excellent three volume history of the Civil War are good sources for the background and effects of the Emancipation Proclamation. It is difficult to be more specific because the claims in the section I questioned are rather broad.
Perhaps it is the person responsible for posting the quotation I questioned who should be expected to provide documentation. I checked the source and found that the quotation came from a web site for "Viva! Cinco de Mayo and State Menudo Cook-Off" of San Marcos, Texas. I believe I would be violating the "Respect" and "Politeness" standards of Wikipedia should I discuss the principal ingredient in Menudo at this point. I believe someone got a bit carried away with an attempt to show how the Battle of Puebla is important to the U.S. HarryC123 (talk) 03:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
In reading the above I realize that I have not provided the sort of specific references you require. Again, this is a first for me so please bear with me.
First, I believe the entire section should be removed because it is poorly documented and is really irrelevant to the subject of the article. There are two specific citations contained in the section but they are not independent. One citation is to the Menudo Cook-Off site I mentioned above. This site has no references to back up its claims and really does read as if it was written by a member of the local Chamber of Commerce. The other citation is to something called The Huffington Post. This site uses identical language as the Menudo Cook-Off site to describe the Battle of Puebla and, therefore, can't be an independent source. The Huffington Post also cites Wikipedia as a source and, thus, is a circular reference.
The question here involves the conduct of a significant portion of the American Civil War. Thus, I believe that I should support my theses with references that cover the war as a whole.
This Hallowed Ground, 1955, by Bruce Catton The Army of the Potomac trilogy by Bruce Catton
Mr. Lincoln's Army, 1951 Glory Road, 1952 A Stillness At Appomattox, 1953
The Centennial History of the Civil War by Bruce Catton
The Coming Fury, 1961 Terrible Swift Sword, 1963 Never Call Retreat, 1965
Grant Takes Command, 1968, by Bruce Catton The Civil War: A Narrative, 1958, 1963, 1974, by Shelby Foote
These are ponderous volumes. But, reading them is most rewarding as they are among the most easily read histories ever written. Mr. Catton and Mr. Foote provide excellent documentation to primary sources. Appropriate sections of these books discuss the connections between the Battle of Antietam, the Emancipation Proclamation, and its effect on potential European intervention. The books all cover the Battle of Gettysburg in detail. Finally, the books describe the years of hard fighting still to come after Gettysburg. The Confederates won several major battles after Gettysburg including the Battles of Chickamauga, Wilderness, Spotsylvania Courthouse, and Cold Harbor. HarryC123 (talk) 03:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
No, of course I don't expect you to read all that and I'm sorry if I upset you. But, the reason for citing the "ponderous volumes" is because of the sweeping nature of the poorly supported claims in this section of the article. The entire support for these statements is a quotation from a site devoted to a menudo cook-off. A second citation in the section is not independent and may be a reference to this article. Neither of these cited sources indicated where the sweeping claims come from. Contrast that to the "ponderous volumes." Neither Catton nor Foote omit citations to their own sources.
There were several points with which I took issue. The first two were that the Battle of Puebla kept the French from interfering in the US Civil War and that the Union army was "the greatest army the world had ever seen." Both of these points are debatable. The Battle of Puebla might have influenced the French, but not the British. One effect of the Emancipation Proclamation was to keep out the British. The "ponderous volumes" discuss the history and effects of the Emancipation Proclamation in detail and are far easier to read than more focused volumes. "The greatest army the world had ever seen" is entirely a matter of opinion and ought to be supported by actual data, not a broad statement.
The real reason for citing the "ponderous volumes" is due to the final two points. Gettysburg simply was not about the "smashing" of the Confederate army. It was about the attempt by the Confederate Army to "smash" the Union army. A telling point is that the Confederate army was in Pennsyvania to begin with. They were invading the North and hoping to "smash" the Union army. For three days at Gettysburg, the Confederates tried again and again to "smash" the Union army ending with "Pickett's Charge" on the third day. The Union Army fought a defensive battle. All this is covered by the relevant chapters in the "ponderous volumes." The battle covered many engagements over the course of three days. No single citable incident tells the whole story.
Even more than the Battle of Gettysburg itself, the notion that the war ended there requires the citation of the "ponderous volumes." At least two of the citatations, Catton's "A Stillness At Appomattox" and "Grant Takes Command," are only about the war after Gettysburg. If the war had ended at Gettysburg, Catton could have written, "the war was over, nothing else happened." Instead he wrote "A Stillness At Appomatox" and garnered a Pulitzer Prize. A lot happened and Catton's descriptions of what happened are superb. Both Foote's "Civil War" and Catton's "Centennial History of the Civil War" could have lost a volume if the war ended at Gettysburg. But, no single quotation will illustrate that better than the books themselves.
The sources cited are all readily available to anyone who wishes to verify what I am saying. Any one of the sources would do and no one has to read the whole three volumes in any single citation. The chapters on the Emancipation Proclamation and the Battle of Gettysburg plus skimming the sections after Gettysburg will establish the facts. I specifically selected sources that can be read for pleasure. No one is better at that than Catton and Foote. If you want an even easier introduction to this, Ken Burns's PBS documentary on the Civil War is available at the same local public library as the books I cited. The documentary includes extensive interviews with Shelby Foote.
In summary, the section should be removed because it is a side-bar to the main topic, is poorly supported, and is contradicted by a mass of data. The mass of data is so large that "ponderous volumes" are required to describe all of it. HarryC123 (talk) 18:17, 13 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
My objection to the Menudo cook-off site was that it was the only citation (the Huffington Post citation was not an independent source) and that the cited source made broad statements not backed up. Your additional citation only addresses the question of whether the Battle of Puebla prevented the French from intervening in the Civil War. Had that been the only questionable statement in this section I probably would have let the whole thing pass as the kind of exercise in post hoc that really would become a pointless debate. The statement that the victorious army at Gettysburg was "the greatest army the world had ever known" falls into the same category.
You object to my citations of entire books. The point of those citations is that entire books have been written about Gettysburg, the Gettysburg Campaign, and the history of the war after Gettysburg. The very existence of these books is evidence that nothing I might say on the subject is original research. But, it also means that there is a very large mass of data that contradicts the statements in the article about Gettysburg and no single quotation is going to summarize that data. If you want to know what happened, you need to read the books.
I'm not going to debate this further. It's your article and you can decide how much hogwash you want in it. HarryC123 (talk) 00:38, 14 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
No, nothing here can take away from the remarkable victory won by the Mexicans at Puebla. That victory is worthy of celebration.
And it did not go unnoticed that you have improved the article. I'm glad to hear that you have learned something. I originally read the article to learn about the history of Cinco de Mayo and, therefore, learned as well. HarryC123 (talk) 02:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
Mercy, you have received a considerable amount of academic sources to the actual history of the Civil War and especially Gettysburg.
As they are all nothing more than alternate history fiction ("What would have happened if...") with laughable claims (absolutely baseless assumptions about the French intentions which contradict the Wikipedia article of the invasion itself and it's much better sources/the claim that Britain was deterred by the Mexican victory while it is well established that the Emancipation Proclamation was the main deterrent as intervention for slavery would have been political suicide for any British politician etc. pp.) none of your sources fulfill the criteria of actual academic research as outlined in wp:rs.
Your asking for sources of alternative views is fallacious. Obviously there will be no credible historical research about a fictitious version of events basing itself on absurd and partially outright wrong claims.
Alternate history is not the realm of academical historical research but of cheap novels. You will not find a single historian wasting his time to discount the claims of how a singular event could have lead to German victory WW2, which is the most common theme of cheap alternate history novels, either. Additionally you will not find a section with this subject in the article about WW2 because it doesn't fit Wikipedias purpose.
Furthermore all the citations and the websites of the "sources" themselves are tainted by the language of national identity and pride, again something that has no place in serious academia. Wikipedia is not a platform for nationalist propaganda of the greatness of a nations achievements and its impact on other people.
Overall the whole section as it stands now should be removed for not being anywhere near Wikipedia's Purpose or Standards and nothing more than a piece of nationalist self glorification (or celebration as the article terms it...). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.185.192.44 (talk) 22:18, 20 August 2010 (UTC)Reply
the French army, the worst-best army at the time
What does 'worst-best' mean?
Also, there appears to be an unbalanced quote-mark at the end of the quoted sentence.
---Tex (talk) 18:44, 10 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
the quotes from http://egpnews.com/?p=9337 "Cinco de Mayo is not a Mexican holiday—it is an American Civil War holiday, created spontaneously by Mexicans and Latinos living in California who supported the fragile cause of defending freedom and democracy during the first years of that bloody war between the states." Needs to be discussed and edited. This quote is opinion and not fact. Cdiasoh (talk) 16:33, 19 April 2011 (UTC)Reply
What's so not fact about it? not a Mexican holiday? an American Civil War holiday? created expontaneously by Mexican and Latinos? living in California? etc? etc? Please be specific. Mercy11 (talk) 17:11, 19 April 2011
a quote shouldn't be in the wiki summary. are there other references other than an op-ed piece to support "civil war holiday"? look at other wiki pages about holidays for reference on how a page should be structured. Cdiasoh (talk) 20:11, 3 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
as well the statement "Cinco de Mayo is not a Mexican holiday—it is an American Civil War holiday, created spontaneously by Mexicans and Latinos living in California ..." completely contradicts the history of observance section that references the UCLA study AND the wiki page on Public holidays in Mexico that does list Cinco De Mayo as a Civic holiday. If you must reference the article then paraphrase it in the history section of the wiki article. As well the complete quote from the article is:『The answer is simple: Celebration of the Cinco de Mayo is not a Mexican holiday—it is an American Civil War holiday, created spontaneously by Mexicans and Latinos living in California who supported the fragile cause of defending freedom and democracy during the first years of that bloody war between the states.』Leaving out "The answer is simple: Celebration of the" is taking the quote completely out of context. Cdiasoh (talk) 20:31, 3 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
It is a well-documented fact that Cinco de Mayo sees a wider celebration in the US than in Mexico; however, the previous lead failed to reflect this other than saying so. The additional quoted and sourced information provided fixes this shortcoming. The statement that you are objecting to is the only statement in the lead that explains -why- it is celebrated also in the US. Again, it is a well-documented fact that 5 de Mayo sees a wider celebration in the US than in Mexico, and that is what the lead needs to reflect. Mercy11 (talk) 01:39, 4 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
There's needs to be a better way to explain "-why-" it is celebrated in the US than using a quote from an article. The section "Consequences to the United States" explains "-why-" it is celebrated in the US and also in the "History of observance" section. Expand those sections with the opinions of the article the quote is from. Leave the partial quote out of the summary. It completely contradicts the summary. Cdiasoh (talk) 14:05, 4 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
The lead contained information that continued to place too much emphasis in the celebrations in Mexico over the US. This is now changed to reflect reality: the holiday is celebrated nationally in the US, and only regionally in Mexico.Mercy11 (talk) 05:23, 5 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
I concur w/ the summary paragraph (although the last sentence is a repeat of the blurb at the top of the article). Cdiasoh (talk) 14:52, 5 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Cinco de Mayo marks an outnumbered Mexican army’s victory over an invading French army on May 5, 1862, in Puebla, east of Mexico City.
Although Mexico’s triumph lifted morale during a time of political and economic upheaval, it was short-lived. Mexico later succumbed to French rule in a period known as the French Intervention that lasted until 1867.
Keeping the French from creating an empire in North America was a mutual interest that sparked cooperation between US President Abraham Lincoln and Benito Juárez, his counterpart in Mexico. Today, statues of the American president stand tall in Mexico, and statues of the Mexican president, one of the country’s most beloved leaders, grace US soil.
24.23.66.191 (talk) 15:21, 5 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
There is a conflict of facts in the following paragrahs - the article under "Significance" states that "since the Battle of Puebla no country in the Americas has been invaded by a European military force." But one paragraph before that under "Events after the Battle" states that "The Mexican victory, however, was short-lived. Thirty thousand troops and a full year laterk, the French were able to depost the Mexican army, capture Mexico City, and establish Emperor Maximilan I as ruler of Mexico." This means that one country in the Americas "has been invaded by a European military force" after the Battle of Puebla, making the statement aforementioned inaccurate and thus, cannot be "significant".
Events after the Battle The Mexican victory, however, was short-lived. Thirty thousand troops and a full year later, the French were able to depose the Mexican army, capture Mexico City, and establish Emperor Maximilian I as ruler of Mexico.[14] However, the French victory was also short-lived, lasting only 3 years, from 1864 to 1867. With the U.S. Civil War over in 1865, the U.S. was able to provide more assistance to Mexico to expel the French, after which Maximilian I was executed by the Mexicans, along with his Mexican generals Miramón and Mejía, in the Cerro de las Campanas, Queretaro.[14][19]
Significance The Battle of Puebla was important for at least two reasons. First, although considerably outnumbered, the Mexicans defeated a much better-equipped French army. "This battle was significant in that the 4,000 Mexican soldiers were greatly outnumbered by the well-equipped French army of 8,000 that had not been defeated for almost 50 years."[20][21] Second, it was significant because since the Battle of Puebla no country in the Americas has been invaded by a European military force.[22]
65.126.245.162 (talk) 20:51, 5 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
As noted under another comment pointing out this contradiction, I have added a parenthetical phrase to correct this. However, I think this is just a stopgap solution, and the whole "significance" section should be rewritten. DLC (talk) 16:54, 8 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
One of the worst wikis I've ever seen. Largely made up by a slipshod combination of blatant lies, incredible speculation, and baseless assumptions.66.190.31.229 (talk) 08:37, 6 May 2011 (UTC)Reply
In the penultimate paragraph of citation #9, it states, “Mr. Hayes-Bautista thinks…” this acknowledged Cinco de Mayo. This is not a conclusive or valid citation, regardless of whether or not he is a professor at UCLA. Citation #10, Youthworker.com, is a propaganda article again citing Hayes-Bautista: “according to David E. Hayes-Bautista.” Citing this same information twice does not validate it. Citation #11 is a college newspaper again citing same – citing same source three times does not validate source. Citation #12 has no information directly related to Cinco de Mayo – it is simply a link to EMGNews.com. Invalid source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.223.219 (talk) 04:30, 15 October 2011 (UTC)Reply
This edit has been reverted - not liking a citation (or 3 as in this case) not a reason for text removal. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 15:05, 17 October 2011 (UTC), and I approve this message.Reply
Per WP:RS, the citation #9 to Cinco de Mayo: The Real Story., when clicked on, connects only to the main site http://egpnews.com/ and thus does not satisfy WP:RS.
However, assuming that you are able to find the link your looking for, I still contend few persons beyond Mr. Hayes-Bautista and perhaps Mercy11 celebrates Cinco de Mayo “to commemorate the cause of freedom and democracy during the first years of the American Civil War.” I agree that this “date is observed in the United States as a celebration of Mexican heritage and pride.” But to add that it’s a celebration for freedom and democracy of the Civil War, in my opinion, belittles this otherwise significant day of celebration, since it appears a clear attempt to give it greater historical significance.
To use your own logic, Mercy11, if Battle of Puebla is in fact the last “the last time any army from another continent invaded the Americas” which you prove by first dismissing, per historical record, the actual most recent invasion with the statement that the Japanese invasion and occupation of Alaska was “so insignificant as to be virtually negligible: the islands invaded had a total population of 12 Americans and some 45 natives,” which, for the sake of this argument I’ll accept (even with its questionable logic – after all, you describe Alaska as a “small, frozen piece of land” who military invasion “was nowhere comparable” to Mexico [read: no importance to me, Mercy11, in terms of promoting my political agenda]), then we can extend your logic to assume that if only yourself and Mr. Hayes-Bautista celebrates Cinco de Mayo in relation to the Civil War, then whether or not you have a citation that satisfies WP:RS would make little difference, because this opinion would be “so insignificant as to be virtually negligible” given that only a couple persons out of millions of Latinos, including myself, celebrate it as such.
You, Mercy11, have assigned yourself as Gatekeeper and Censor to Wikis Cinco de Mayo page – refers to your numerous comments above on this Discussions page. If one feels your logic is questionable, such as your insistence that Latinos celebrate this holiday as an extension of the American Civil War and that it’s the last time an outside power invaded the Americas, your control and constant disallows any dissenting opinion.
For myself, I will not continue checking this page to see if you have continued to keep its historical record in accordance with your views and what I would term historical revisionism to satisfy your clear political agenda (see Mercy11 contributions). So in the end, you win. But if you do, in fact, see yourself as somebody trying to contribute to an objective historical record, then I suggest you step back for a moment and reevaluate your motives for so keenly monitoring pages such as this one.
Certainly, you can respond to this comment by reverting the page to its former self and sign off “Mercy11 (talk) 15:05, 19 October 2011 (UTC), and I approve this message.”
But be very clear, your “approval” does not lend itself historical authenticity or objectivity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.217.80 (talk) 05:23, 18 October 2011 (UTC)Reply
I've edited the article to take out the clause "the best army of the time". If you look at my edit summary, it's clear that I misread that clause, quoting it as saying "the best of all time", but I think that what I said in the edit summary still applies. There were lots of strong armies in 1862, such as Britain's Army, the Russian Empire's army, and many others. An article about Cinco de Mayo in The Bulletin, "Philadelphia's Family Newspaper" isn't a reliable source for proclaiming one of them the "best". The real downside to this edit is that it leaves the sentence feeling cut short. The sentence probably should go on to describe how strong the French Army at the time was.
Perhaps, "one of the strongest armies at the time" would be more appropriate. I think the source could be held as semi-reliable for that statement. If the article does refer to France's army as the "best" of the time, the author would basically have to be lying or making up her facts in order to make that statement if France's army wasn't at least among the strongest at the time. Not lying or making up facts is something I think we can rely on from a genuine new article (as opposed to tabloid National Enquirer-style news).
In fact, I'll make the above edit. There may be a description of the French Army's strength (something that the sentence in question clearly needs) that would serve as an even better fit than "one of the best armies at the time". If anyone comes up with such a description, obviously they should be bold and replace mine. Or if someone finds a more appropriate source for the statement that France's army was "the best of the time", they should edit it back in (with the obvious qualifier that that statement should genuinely represent what the majority of our reliable sources say, or imply, on the issue so that we avoid just "cherry picking" the one reliable source that says what we want to say).--James Fahringer (talk) 03:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)Reply
My name is Mercy11 (talk) 17:34, 31 January 2012 (UTC), and I approve this message.Reply
I removed and to commemorate the cause of freedom and democracy during the first years of the [[American Civil War]].<ref name="egpnews9337">[http://egpnews.com/?p=9337 ''Cinco de Mayo: The Real Story.''] Cinco de Mayo: The Real Story, Part 1: While viewed as a Mexican holiday, the date has more meaning in the US. David E. Hayes-Bautista. Retrieved April 14, 2011.</ref> Ref did not work and made little sense. Jim1138 (talk) 04:50, 12 February 2012 (UTC)Reply
Reverted date and content changing vandalism by IP and warned. --RichardMills65 (talk) 01:51, 8 March 2012 (UTC)Reply
Is this analogy somehow supported by citation or just as an observance? If the latter I question the ostensible truthfulness of that analogy. No one consciously considers St. Patricks day a day to celebrate pride and heritage of being Irish in America. Chinese New Year is simply put, Chinese New Year and once again has nothing to do with pride or a celebration of being Chinese. Oktoberfest is quite clearly only about drinking (and though omitted, one can almost say that of St. Patricks as well). The closest you can come to it being about pride or heritage is with a clearly limited scope, such as food, drink, and attire meant to look humorous.
I write this not to try to elevate the status (though really it doesn't matter why, it only matters if it is true or not) of the holiday above others, but that it truly is an unprecedented celebration of a foreign heritage within a country not directly related to the origins of it's events. While not technically their independance day, it's celebrated as such by many Mexican Americans, and seems more akin to celebrating the fourth of July in Canada, if we like analogies.
24.255.144.59 (talk)anon (no I have no idea what I'm doing heh) —Preceding undated comment added 14:46, 28 April 2012 (UTC).Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hello im from Mexico and for me is clear that the battle of Puebla is more important to Mexico, well was fighted in Mexico, so the first two lines of the wiki page for Cinco de mayo in english are totally wrong
Text says: "It is celebrated nationwide in the United States and regionally in Mexico, primarily in the state of Puebla,[1][2][3][4] where the holiday is called El Dia de la Batalla de Puebla"
and should be: "It is celebrated nationwide in the United States and all Mexico, primarily in the state of Puebla where the hemicicle monument to the『niños heroes』(hero kids) ,[1][2][3][4], in all Mexico the holiday is called El Dia de la Batalla de Puebla"
Cinco de mayo is not like the Independence Day but is very important.
Another fact is the paricipation of USA, im not totally secure but i think USA don't take part in any battle of the conflict with france. Punktoy (talk) 22:02, 3 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
You have locked the page, I can't do the change or improve the content. I know that there are persons insanely watching this kind of pages to change them to support the revisionist conservative pseudo-historians in the quest to degrade all those people that forged this nation. They can be fanatic catholics manipulated by members of the catholic church or even people hired by some government agencies in charge of doing propaganda. This kind of entries is always subject to such attacks. You must be more strict with which sources to consider reliable, trust just academic work with quotations of original documents, discharge historic novel and of course tourism information pages. This is a very hard work to do, but you decided to be in charge of this pages and locked them to be the only rulers. Good lock, I hope the mistakes are that not part of the people in charge to distort the history of Mexico. Above comments entered by User:201.141.174.181 on 07:48, 5 May 2012.
The article should be supported by scholarly sources. There are volumes of books regarding Mexican history to fill a library. However, not a single book is cited. There are fine sources in English, e.g.Triumphs and Tragedies: a History of the Mexican People (WW Norton & Co, 1993), Ruiz, Ramón Eduardo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aguilayserpiente (talk • contribs) 17:58, 5 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
There should be further research, since el cinco de mayo is commemorated with military parades and re-enactments throughout Mexico. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aguilayserpiente (talk • contribs) 23:57, 5 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
There's always a jerk out there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.76.36 (talk) 23:33, 5 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The mobile version Says "shut the f*** up" under history.
207.6.160.123 (talk) 01:42, 6 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please remove "As far away as the island of Malta, in the Mediterranean Sea, revelers are encouraged to drink Mexican beer on May 5.[1]" since the article quoted is mainly an article advertising the return of Corona distribution to Malta, but does not really prove that Cinco de Mayo is celebrated. In fact this event as to my knowledge was not repeated after 2008.
213.165.190.226 (talk) 15:59, 8 May 2012 (UTC)Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
mr:सिंको दे मायो PrathamMarathi 20:12, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
I have marked the text reading "Due in large part to the withdrawal of French troops by Napoleon III in 1866 – 1867" as Failed Verification/Original Research because the WP:good faith edits have 2 shortcomings: (1) The effect of the edit is to make the paragrapgh mean that the U.S. was able to provide more assistance to Mexico to expel the French due in large part to the withdrawal of French troops by Napoleon III in 1866 – 1867. However, the citation given doesn't say, or imply to say, that anywhere in that page that I can see; (2) for that sort of entry to be made, the citation given must contain the clear Cause-Effect relationship that the editor is adjudicating with his edit. However, the citation given doesn't present that sort of C-E relationship. That is, the citation cannot just talk about the French withdrawing from Mexico and the US help to Mexico on the same page: that's not enough. It must actually link the two events in a C-E relationship. Jumping to a Cause Effect relationship when none has been stated by Meyer and Beezley, would be tantamount to WP:OR.
As a side note, on the "in large part" part, (3) even if the citation given did say that the US started helping Mexico fight the French as a result of the French withdrawal (which, as I stated already, it doesn't), nowhere does it say that that particular event of the French withdrawal was, of two events (the other being the end of the US Civil War) the primary one. As such, the use of the phrase "in large part" just before introducing the French withdrawal as a reason, is not warranted.
I have, for the time being left the entry intact, pending response/feedback/discussion from the wp:good faith editor(s) involved, or other parties, but will remove it summarily if no reasonable response is received timely. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2012 (UTC), and I approve this message.Reply
I have reverted the good-faith edits by Wikigi regarding the size of the armies for 3 reasons. (1) The History Channel is a much better known and more reliable source than the newly introduced『Fondation Napoléon』source. (2) The 7,000 French army number from the Fondation Napoléon is actually incorrect in the Fondation Napoléon article itself: 3,500 + 4,500 = 8,000 (not 7,000), lending reason to wonder how many other details in the Fondation Napoléon article could also be wrong. (3) The 12,000 Mexican army number, while attributed in the Fondation Napoléon's article to "according to French sources", fails to indicate what sources those are (the sources section at the bottom of the Fondation Napoléon article do not provide the answer). As a result, the previous numbers (8,000 French vs. 4,000 Mexicans) continue to offer the most reliable (and most commonly, or near most commonly, reported) figures. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 02:37, 25 October 2012 (UTC), and I approve this message.Reply
I think the Cinco de Mayo page needs to be reconciled with the Battle of Puebla page. To be honest, this page feels like it's cheerleading instead of reporting facts and cherry-picking sources to promote the importance of Cinco de Mayo.
Some examples:
5 de Mayo page: "...the date is observed to commemorate the Mexican army's unlikely victory over French forces... The 8,000-strong French army attacked the much smaller and poorly equipped Mexican army of 4,500. Yet, on May 5, 1862, the Mexicans managed to decisively crush the French army, then considered "the premier army in the world.""
Puebla page: "Zaragoza retreated to Puebla which was heavily fortified – it had been held by the Mexican government since the Reform War. ... against all advice, Lorencez decided to attack Puebla from the north. ... Lorencez was led to believe that the people of Puebla were friendly to the French, and that the Mexican Republican garrison which kept the people in line would be overrun by the population once he made a show of force. ... The French artillery had run out of ammunition, so the third infantry attack went unsupported."
The Puebla page seems to explain what happened pretty factually. The 5 de Mayo page, on the other hand, is pretty value laden.
>>Was the victory "unlikely"? According to the Puebla page the city was heavily fortified and Lorencez was advised not to attack, so from a military strategy perspective this is at least a debatable assertion.
>>"The 8,000-strong French army attacked the much smaller and poorly equipped Mexican army of 4,500." First, the term "much smaller" is value-laden. If we're giving troop size, readers should determine for themselves if that is "much smaller" or not. Second, the Puebla page says the French had 6,000 troops to Mexico's 4,500. That should be reconciled. One of the sources cited no longer exists online. The other source (the PBS source) says it was 6,000 to 4,000. I think the author was cherry picking to make the battle seem more disproportionate.
>> Mexicans "decisively crush[ed]" the French army. Puebla says 80 killed to 460 killed, armies retreat. Is that a "decisive crushing"?
The statements that France would've joined the confederacy had it won Puebla seems pretty unbelievable as well... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.206.98.158 (talk) 04:28, 26 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
05:17, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
I went ahead and made the edits I suggested. I also took a look at the Significance section and got rid of that too. The notes in their were essentially a debate that should have occurred in the talk pages. One of the significance quotes uses incorrect numbers so should not have been there. The other incorrectly states that the Battle of Puebla was the last European invasion of South America. It was not. See, eg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chincha_Islands_War.
I made a lot of edits so I can imagine there won't be agreement on every one. Hopefully people re-edit what I've done rather than just revert it so some of that work can stay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.206.98.158 (talk) 05:17, 26 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
About your Third Opinion request: I am a Third Opinion Wikipedian. Mercy11 has made a substantial response to 108.206.98.158's edits. If 108 wishes to pursue those edits, s/he really needs to discuss Mercy11's responses at length before resorting to dispute resolution, especially (but not only) in light of the substantial amount of time which has passed since that response was made. If after substantial back-and-forth discussion a standstill is reached, dispute resolution can then be considered. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 18:23, 26 February 2013 (UTC)Reply
What about the Falklands War? Does that count as an invasion? 66.66.64.52 (talk) 14:15, 3 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
The claim "It originated with and is celebrated primarily by Mexican Americans in the United States" is not found in the citation given, and has been removed as a violation as WP:OR policy. The edit summary by the editor "(it's a US - based celebration)" has nothing to do with the claim that "It originated with and is celebrated primarily by Mexican Americans". These claims need to be backed up with verifiable citations, and the stated citation failed verification. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 14:28, 20 March 2013 (UTC), and I approve this message.Reply
First paragraph makes it sound like it is an American holiday. It should be emphisized that it is a Mexican holiday also observed in other countries which have Mexican minorities. And also the real origin of the holiday should be emphasized (1862 victory). In my opinion, the first paragraph is confusing and misleading. FYI I am neither American nor Mexican. I have just come here to find out about Cinco de Mayo and as usual I had to refer to other reliable sources such as Britannica because this article (especially the first paragraph) is a mess as a result of national/regional agendas.--Abuk SABUK (talk) 18:24, 25 April 2013 (UTC)Reply
"However, all public schools are closed nation-wide in Mexico on May 5"
I don't think this is true — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BD51:92D0:E091:2063:41A3:D597 (talk) 18:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
Added May 4, 23:56 -4 GMT: "It should say that is a holiday celebrated in Mexico, and by the Mexican Community, not as if it were a national holiday of the United States of America, as this only furthers the representation of Latin America as accessory to the USA, and reinforces the structure of dependence, as well as creating appropriation of the holiday. This is a Mexican holiday, and despite everyone being invited to participate, it should be emphasised its Mexican, not American as in of the United States". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.21.104.70 (talk) 03:56, 5 May 2014 (UTC)Reply
This section was debated over in 2010 above in this talk page and I agree with the objection of the source for menudo recipe on history of Cinco as not WP:RS yet shockingly this paragraph remained:
Some historians have argued that France's real goal was to help break up the American Union, at the time in the midst of a civil war, by helping the southern Confederacy:[2] "The Mexicans had won a great victory that kept Napoleon III from supplying the confederate rebels for another year, allowing the United States to build a powerful army. This grand army smashed the Confederates at Vicksburg and Gettysburg just 14 months after the battle of Puebla, essentially ending the Civil War." The consequence of Cinco de Mayo to the United States has been thus recognized: "The defeat of the French army had consequences for America as well...the French defeat denied Napoleon III the opportunity to resupply the Confederate rebels for another year."[3]
Source 2 doesn't exist anymore and I can not find a RS that isn't quoting Wikipedia when searching. The North's army didn't greatly outnumber the Souths and Vicksburg was only won by siege and the losses at Gettysburg were the worst of the war with 23k from Northern forces and 28k from the South. The North didn't smash the south.
Source 3 is Huffpo which states it is drawing from THIS Wikipedia article for a source so that is a circular source.
If anyone can find some scholar to support the above paragraph then restore it but name the scholar and avoid circular sourcing.
What is left of the section names the scholars and gives their opinions and pretty much says all the things that the removed paragraph had. Alatari (talk) 02:40, 23 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
Some historians[who?] have argued that France's real goal was to help break up the American Union, at the time in the midst of a civil war, by helping the southern Confederacy.
Please remove the sentence "Brothers give their sisters 5 american dollars in appreciation of the holiday". This sentence was inserted at 2 locations in the article, in 2 revisions by 72.220.72.42, occurring at 03:12, 30 April, 2014 and 03:15, 30 April 2014. Clearly somewhere a sister / vandal is hoping for 5 dollars early next week.
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The Monroe Doctrine was the reason no other country invaded Mexico. the U.S. making it an american holiday is out of order, the U.S. did not have any troops involved nor did the south, it may be that France wanted the south to win but they could not. no factories no fresh troops the north had all kinds of immigrants, especially from Irland. so the battle did not have any fuction to the U.S., it is a way to try to get favorable treatment to immigrate to the U.S., nothing other than that, americans being fat, dumb and stupid may give the country away but I won't. 2602:30A:2E23:1C70:7568:D9C0:E91B:FF8F (talk) 05:45, 5 May 2014 (UTC)Reply
Reinserted content removed by Edward321, please discuss the changes here. Edit summaries aren't enough for major edits like those. The removals are objectionable per WP:RS. Mercy11 (talk) 11:16, 14 June 2014 (UTC)Reply
is it Spanish, a location, a proverb?--Heebi (talk) 07:37, 31 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
The "Elsewhere" section stretches about 15 page lengths across the website. please fix. I am not registered, but I went to this website for my spanish class and this bothered me, and I do not know how to fix it. 207.233.27.224 (talk) 21:37, 29 April 2015 (UTC)Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
please change 'Battle of Puebla' to 'Franco-Mexican War', in the sentence the "Second, since the Battle of Puebla, no country in the Americas has subsequently been invaded by any other European military force.[29]" (in the section about significance). The reason for this is, as the article stated earlier, a year after the Battle of Puebla the French successfully invaded Mexico and established the reign of Maximilian for 3 years. While the Battle of Puebla was significant in offsetting French plans in Mexico, it can't be called the end of the invasions. 64.184.34.180 (talk) 18:19, 5 May 2015 (UTC)Reply
"The 6,000-strong[16] French army[17][note 2] attacked the much smaller and poorly equipped Mexican army of 2,000. Yet, on May 5, 1862, the Mexicans managed to decisively crush the French army, then considered "the premier army in the world".[21][22][23]"
Come on, there is no needed for so much lies. The Mexican were 4,000 (not 2,000) and the French 6,000. Therefore the "much smaller" can also turn into "sligtly smaller". And the French army wasn't "decisively crushed" but rather temporarily halted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.211.63.234 (talk) 07:40, 6 May 2015 (UTC)Reply
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Cinco de Mayo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to trueorfailed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}
).
Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 05:29, 2 March 2016 (UTC)Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The date is observed to commemorate the Mexican army's unlikely victory over French forces at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862, under the leadership of General Ignacio Zaragoza Seguín and the lesser known Captain Kit Sanderson. 69.193.7.73 (talk) 05:54, 27 April 2016 (UTC)Reply
on cinco de mayo people dance around and eat mayonnaise and make make mayonaise sculptures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.40.226.47 (talk) 20:16, 30 April 2016 (UTC)Reply
Cinco de Mayo is a big event in the Philippines.112.198.77.43 (talk) 08:20, 9 May 2016 (UTC)Reply
Cinco de Mayo in Tokyo is now celebrated during Japan's Golden Week holidays in Odaiba and not Yoyogi Park. The event in Osaka has ceased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skim2018 (talk • contribs) 02:49, 25 January 2017 (UTC)Reply
Well I have never herd of 5 de mayo so I want to learn more!Who particepated,how did they? That's the questions I have.45.36.225.132 (talk) 20:28, 11 May 2016 (UTC)Reply
Is there any other name for the Cinco de Mayo holiday? (such as Independence Day for Fourth of July, various proposed names for September 11th, etc) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.225.17.141 (talk) 00:20, 4 July 2016 (UTC)Reply
"Second, since the Battle of Puebla, no country in the Americas has subsequently been invaded by any other European military force."
Wtf? The battle didnt even stop the French invasion, the entire country fell soon after and had to wait until the US negociated French departure in 1866 to gain its sovereignty back... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB1C:8172:5400:6C5F:95BB:4831:1ED8 (talk) 16:48, 24 October 2016 (UTC)Reply
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Cinco de Mayo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to trueorfailed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:54, 25 November 2016 (UTC)Reply
The Cinco de Mayo festival is virtually unknown outside of California and the south western portion of the United States. This should be reflected in the article. 104.219.106.83 (talk) 22:27, 3 May 2017 (UTC)Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
{{subst:trim|
74.254.87.120 (talk) 13:49, 5 May 2017 (UTC)Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the "French invasion" section, the number of mexicans is 4500 or 4802 not 2000. According to the same references that are noted : http://www.bicentenario.gob.mx/Img/5mayo/5deMayo.pdf http://www.mexonline.com/cinco-de-mayo.htm Mithraw fr (talk) 14:31, 5 May 2017 (UTC)Reply
Done Power~enwiki (talk) 05:50, 26 May 2017 (UTC)Reply
note: I put "4000" as a round number. Power~enwiki (talk) 05:50, 26 May 2017 (UTC)Reply
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Cinco de Mayo is sometimes mistaken to be Mexico's Independence Day—the most important national holiday in Mexico—which is celebrated on September 16, commemorating the Cry of Dolores that initiated the war of Mexican independence from Spain Raromero1 (talk) 18:13, 5 May 2017 (UTC)Reply
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on Cinco de Mayo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:01, 7 August 2017 (UTC)Reply
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Cinco de Mayo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{dead link}}
tag to http://www.montrealmirror.com/wp/2012/05/03/drag-superstar/When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:45, 8 November 2017 (UTC)Reply
This article contains both the following sentences:
"The French army of 6,000 [12][13][note 1] attacked the poorly equipped Mexican army of 4,000."
"This battle was significant in that the 4,000 Mexican soldiers were greatly outnumbered by the well-equipped French army of 8,000 that had not been defeated for almost 50 years." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blhatibm (talk • contribs) 09:12, 13 April 2018 (UTC)Reply
In the section on the Reform War ("Events leading to the Battle of Puebla" under "Background"), "Liberal" and "Conservative" are capitalized. This is correct, because that's what the factions were actually called. However, since those words are occasionally capitalized when they aren't proper nouns, that is potentially unclear. I've turned them into links to the two relevant articles. Changing it to "supporters of the Liberal Party", or adding the Spanish names, as in "the Partido Conservador", would make it clearer, but I think the links make it clear enough without adding text. Roches (talk) 19:02, 5 May 2020 (UTC)Reply
“However this was not the end of the war and when the American civil war ended the Union started loaning money and guns to Mexican liberals, pushing France and Mexican Conservatives to the edge of defeat.“
Correction:
However this was not the end of the war and when the American civil war ended, the Union started loaning money and guns to Mexican liberals, pushing France and Mexican Conservatives to the edge of defeat. Ktomaska (talk) 04:15, 10 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
“However this was not the end of the war and when the American civil war ended the Union started loaning money and guns to Mexican liberals, pushing France and Mexican Conservatives to the edge of defeat. “
Correction: However, this was not the end of the war. When the American civil war ended, the Union started loaning money and guns to Mexican liberals. This pushed the French and Mexican Conservatives to the edge of defeat. Ktomaska (talk) 04:24, 10 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
“However this was not the end of the war and when the American civil war ended the Union started loaning money and guns to Mexican liberals, pushing France and Mexican Conservatives to the edge of defeat. At the opening of the French chambers in January 1866, Napoleon III announced that he would withdraw French troops from Mexico.”
Why specifically did the French subside? This is important information. It leaves a person guessing as to the intrinsic factors that caused this. Ktomaska (talk) 04:26, 10 February 2023 (UTC)Reply
The info about Zaragoza and the aftermath is beneficial, but feels extremely discursive for the first paragraph of the article. I recommend cutting that first paragraph off after "led by General Zaragoza" but weaving the rest of the facts from this opening paragraph into the history section. Eowar (talk) 15:30, 30 June 2024 (UTC)Reply