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A danegeld was not just an English tax, it was also used in Francia, and it did not necessaraily have to be a 'tax' in the proper use of the word. Charles the Bald was the first Frankish king to pay a danegeld in 845. This consisted of him handing over 7,000 lb's of silver to the viking leader Ragnar.
Source: The year 845 in the Annals of St Bertin. I'll come back later and rewrite this article unless anyone else has further input?
Just checking a few sources and the first English danegeld actually appears to have been in 865 by the people of Kent.
Source: Jones, Gywn. A History of the Vikings. New York: Oxford University Press, 1968.
"48,000 pounds (17,916 kg) of silver" - something wrong here. 17,916/48,000=0.37325 kg in one pound. Wrong pounds or kilograms? --Tigga en 04:39, 4 February 2007 (UTC)Reply
Whatever 'francia' was, it is noteworthy that there was nothing at all alike to England's Danelaw nor the Danish placenames therein. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.101.41 (talk) 20:49, 23 April 2018 (UTC)Reply
As far as I can see, the images of rune stones in this article don't relate to danegeld, except perhaps indirectly. The translations for these rune stones, offered in the indicated WP article, mention only "payments", made to the individuals concerned by their respective Scandinavian leaders. That's not danegeld. Danegeld was paid by rulers to their counterparts, and, specifically in the case of the English danegeld, this was from land taxes. Of course the payments received by the individuals commemorated on the rune stones are interesting, and might have originated in danegeld collected by their leaders, but it is wrong to call these payments "danegeld". Nortonius (talk) 10:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)Reply
(undid indent) All very interesting, and thank you very much. I think what's going on here is that a line is being blurred, between the land tax known as "danegeld", and payments made to individuals from the proceeds of that land tax. This would be comparable to the difference between say a modern "income tax", and the "wages" paid to soldiers, or perhaps more accurately mercenaries. Obviously they are connected, but they are two very different things.
In Bengt Holmström's paper here, he's not discussing the danegeld, and the impression is that he is being uncritical in that regard in quoting from a translation of the Yttergärde rune stone - it's not his subject, after all. Incidentally, that writer does his credibility no favours, I think, when he describes Cnut as 'looking Nordic' in the illustration in the New Minster Register. While that image is clearly designed to make Cnut look as much like an English king as possible, no doubt for purposes akin to propaganda, it is directly comparable to an image of his thoroughly Anglo-Saxon predecessor King Edgar, in the New Minster charter.
Much the same can be said for the item here. Its subject is the rune stones, not the issue of what constitutes a danegeld. In this example, the word "danegeld" is used in the main text reporting the inscription on the Väsby stone, but this then becomes merely "geld" in the caption for the accompanying illustration. The main text then goes on to mention 'payments of geld' (i.e., not explicitly "danegeld"), with regard to the inscription on the Yttergärde stone - but, this inscription is translated here using only the word "payments".
Meanwhile the third example is really just a repeat of the second one, as it too mentions the inscription on the Yttergärde stone. By this point, I have to ask, can anyone provide trustworthy translations of these inscriptions, which are not coloured by foreknowledge of the existence of an English tax called "the danegeld"?
Of course I'd still be interested to see what else might be offered by way of answer to this question, but to me it still looks very much as it did when I left my first comment - in other words, that the rune stones don't record payments of danegeld, which would require that the persons commemorated on the stones themselves received tribute, in this instance collected through a land tax called "danegeld", directly from whoever had collected it, in this instance being an English ruler with the power to tax. Instead, the rune stones record individuals who had been in England, and had been paid by their leaders, probably from the proceeds of danegeld.
I think that the quote from Jansson's book, Runes in Sweden, is itself illustrative of the point that I'm trying to make. In effect, it may well be that the rune stones do mention danegeld, but not by name, and only indirectly. To begin with, Jansson himself introduces the word "Danegeld", and then there is mention of 'Canute's payment', and then 'two payments', with no further mention of danegeld - just, "payments"; until, that is, Jansson mentions a man named Gudve, who was 'west in England and took his share of a Danegeld payment' (my italics).
So, what I'm driving at is that there is a distinction between "the danegeld" as a tax, and how the proceeds of that tax were used. In other words, at present the Danegeld article doesn't appear to recognise this distinction, and this is especially evident in the image captions, which speak of individuals "taking" and "receiving" danegelds. I still say that they didn't - they simply received payment - their shares - from their leaders. The rune stones are still of great interest here, as I would agree that these payments were most probably derived from the proceeds of danegelds, so long as they are chronologically appropriate; but the line between the supply of a demand for tribute by an English ruler's imposition of a danegeld on the one hand, and the rewards given to warriors and mercenaries on the other hand, is invisible in the article as it stands. I suppose the bottom line is that, as it stands, the article appears to allow readers to go away thinking that "danegeld" is a term that can be used for any payment received by any Danish warrior who had been fighting in England. And, very grateful though I am for the examples that have been offered in this discussion, really what I (or anyone) would be hoping to see would be simple, contemporary examples of the word "danegeld" being used outside the context of an English land tax being raised by an English ruler and paid to a Danish ruler or leader of a war band; or, reliable, published discussion of contemporary use of the word "danegeld" which would explain and include the sort of payments received by the individuals commemorated on the rune stones. Failing that, a solution to this problem in the article might be to create a brief subsection discussing what happened to the proceeds of danegeld, and relating the images to that, rather than directly to a tax known as "danegeld". Any further thoughts? Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 17:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)Reply
(undid indent) Sorry, I don't mean to be annoying! But you refer me to previous examples which I've already discussed in some detail, without actually responding to my discussion. The issue I'm addressing is precisely that the "Ulf" commemorated on U 344 received "wages" from Tosti, Thorkell and Cnut: those three were the ones who received "danegeld", not Ulf. Also, you haven't responded to my last illustration, about "danegeld" allegedly being collected in Paris. I'd be grateful if you would. Thanks. Nortonius (talk) 14:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)Reply
Is the addition of Appeasement in the "See also" section legitimate? I am not a native English speaker, but the article does not have any mention of the word being relevant for Danegeld. --Saddhiyama (talk) 15:19, 1 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for Spoting that your have good eyes Appeasement difinatly deserves to be linked to this artical 76.244.155.36 (talk) 06:13, 21 July 2012 (UTC)Reply
Under the heading Frisia you say:
where they assaulted Dorstadt and extorted a tribute from the population
are you sure this should not be Dorestad (NL) instead of Dorstadt (DE). Kadeike (talk) 10:02, 6 March 2010 (UTC)Reply
Can someone tell me what I've did wrong with note 18 and why the brackets don't do their job? Nik Sage (talk) 13:35, 2 December 2010 (UTC)Reply
I corrected the few instances of "Danegelds" to Danegeld. The addition of plural -s is foolish and demonstrates no feeling for the old Norse language; a discussion could be started regarding plural of old Norse words, since almost no-one today has knowledge of complex old Norse grammar wherefore the correct usage of plural in different contexts might prove exceedingly difficult to implement.
Be that as it may, "Danegelds" is certainly unpreferable. One might conjugate as in German 'Danegelder', but for now I have corrected as uncountable 'Danegeld', and then number of instances where Danegeld was received.
Forgot to sign in again-again, sorry; ~ Jjjjc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.72.23.67 (talk) 23:58, 25 January 2011 (UTC)Reply
This article would appear to be unfocused according to www.britannica.com (my emphasis):
Though the Danes were sometimes bought off in the 9th century in both England and France, the word Danegeld is usually applied to the payments that began in 991 and continued at intervals until 1016. Danegeld is distinct from heregeld, an annual tax levied between 1012 and 1051 to pay Danish mercenaries. The Anglo-Norman and Angevin kings continued the geld until 1162. ("Danegeld". www.britannica.com.)
Would it be correct to distinguish two processes: the extortion of money through menaces, and the raising of that money through a protection racket? Shtove 14:04, 12 June 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shtove (talk • contribs)
Article reports translation into modern English as "Danish tax" or "yield". I'm no expert on Old Norse/English, but I was wondering if this is correct?
"tax" or "tribute" seems to fit, but translation as "yield" seems wrong - only source seems to be this page.
"gæld" in modern Danish is "debt" - it is described as『Danegæld』on the Danish page. In fact modern Gældstyrelsen (https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A6ldsstyrelsen) comes after you if you don't pay your taxes or public debt.
Would "Dane debt" be a valid translation? One reliable source describes it as such from Univ. Exeter. https://projects.exeter.ac.uk/RDavies/arian/viking.html Jw2036 (talk) 22:35, 9 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
How did it (the wider practice) start - before/outside England ? Could do with a chronological overview, in intro or own section, since the national sections make it hard to see if Fresia or elsewhere was the first. Were the payments made to a single Danish authority, or to various tribal groups ? - Rod57 (talk) 11:17, 28 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Can we have/start a list of such payments, including dates, amounts, by-whom, to whom, location ? Did the Vikings always visit to collect the Geld, or was it sometimes delivered to them ? - Rod57 (talk) 11:30, 28 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
The article uses both. Should it be capitalised or not? LastDodo (talk) 09:14, 4 August 2023 (UTC)Reply