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Although it is implied in the article, many (perhaps most) of the differences between what is called "NZ English" and other forms of English by the article appear to me as a New Zealander to actually be differences in speech associated with social origins/social class. Instead the article (perhaps unintentionally) implies that lower social class accents are NZ English, when it practice these pronunciations are associated with social origins rather than nationality. 59.102.61.38 (talk) 15:08, 22 February 2017 (UTC)Reply
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@Awesomemeeos: Regarding this edit summary of yours, the mere fact that some Kiwis realize stressed /ɘ/ as relatively close and front doesn't mean that they have a separate /ɪ/ phoneme, just as the fact that the final sounds of words such as commaorChina are commonly as open as [ɐ] doesn't mean that the correct phonemic analysis of them is /ˈkɒmɐ, ˈtʃɑenɐ/ (although Wells seems to consider it a valid transcription).
To prove your assertion, we'd need a thorough study of unstressed /ɪ/ and /ə/ in NZE. Mr KEBAB (talk) 18:44, 12 April 2018 (UTC)Reply
New Zealand [ɪ] does not contrast with [ə], and New Zealanders studying phonetics usually find it unrealistic to distinguish the phonemic symbols /ɪ/ and /ə/. Accordingly it seems sensible to symbolize the New Zealand KIT vowel as /ə/, as /ðəs θəŋ/. (...) The centrality of New Zealand KIT means that there is no doubt at all about the HAPPY vowel: it belongs with FLEECE, /iː/, and not with KIT. Cityis/ˈsətiː/, invisibilityis/ˈənvəzəˈbələtiː/ (compare old-fashioned RP /ˈɪnvɪzɪˈbɪlɪtɪ/, nowadays usually /ˈɪnvɪzəˈbɪlətɪ/).
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Mr KEBAB (talk) 13:12, 16 April 2018 (UTC)Reply
/l/ is certainly not velarised in all positions by all speakers. I haven't heard it among the South Islanders I have frequent contact with, nor among the North Islanders I have occasional contact with or hear on radio and TV. It is velarised before a consonant and before a pause. When velarised, it colours a small range of vowels (the coat/coal divide and the food/fool divide), with the result that many New Zealanders drop the /l/ in these positions, and this has extended to /l/ following other vowels, where it is vocalised as a [u]. Prevocalic /l/ is neither velarised nor vocalised. Koro Neil (talk) 01:16, 19 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
/oe/ can be closing-fronting as well as just fronting
/oe/ is fronting according to the vowel chart given in the article - closing diphtongs, part 2. Close-mid back to close-mid front, to be precise. Erkin Alp Güney 13:36, 4 February 2019 (UTC)Reply
The only u-vowels in the article are [ʉː] ⓘ (as in "too") and [ʊ] ⓘ (as in "pull"). However, there is also a separate "pool" vowel [uː] ⓘ, which is not mentioned in the article except for saying these 3 can all the same (a footnote containing "/ʊ/ and /ʉː/ (pull /pʊl/ vs pool /pʉːl/) ... may be merged
" – except that pronouncing pool as [pʉːl] makes you sound like youre trying to be posh). Adding an /l/ to the end of "too" [tʉː] does not usually make it "tool" [tuː(w)l]. Nixinova T C 04:38, 17 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Just like the anon, I'm for transcribing the LOT vowel with ⟨ɔ⟩ (⟨ɞ⟩ would be even better, capturing the centralization), but changing the way we transcribe the DRESS vowel is IMO the priority. There's not a single other set of symbols used for a dialect of English that uses both ⟨ɛ⟩ and ⟨e⟩ in the way this system does (indeed, how often is the TRAP vowel written as such?), and the former is very easily confused with the latter due to the fact that NZE is perceived by laymen as "using the DRESS vowel instead of the TRAP vowel", which is of course inaccurate. IMO we should change ⟨e⟩ to ⟨ɪ⟩. Surely there's at least one source that writes DRESS with ⟨ɪ⟩, due to its rather extreme closeness? And if there isn't, perhaps we should stop using ⟨ɛ⟩ and use the RP symbol ⟨æ⟩ instead? The South African TRAP vowel is basically the same as in New Zealand (perhaps only very slightly more open than that), yet Lass 1990 prefers ⟨æ⟩ for it anyway. He also writes the DRESS vowel with ⟨e⟩.
But using ⟨æ⟩ is seriously inaccurate as far as NZE vowel space is concerned. The TRAP vowel contrasts with STRUT primarily by height, not by backness. So I wouldn't support that change.
The non-front vowels /ɒ/ and /ʊ/ are, of course, better transcribed with ⟨ɞ⟩ and ⟨ɨ⟩, capturing their height, backness and, in the second case, lack of rounding. But nobody transcribes them as such - as far as I know anyway (Rogers does use ⟨ɞ⟩, but for NURSE). Perhaps we can switch ⟨ɒ⟩ to ⟨ɔ⟩ to make the transcription of LOT the same as its Australian counterpart (which is more back but not less open than the New Zealand vowel). This is something I wouldn't edit war over, though. The South African vowel (written ⟨ɒ̝̈⟩ by Lass, but judging by the written description of the vowel he actually means ⟨ɒ̜̽⟩ or ⟨ɑ̹̽⟩) is similarly centralized but less rounded, so maybe using ⟨ɒ⟩ is not such a bad idea. It's definitely immediately recognizable as LOT, as that's how the symbol is used in transcriptions of RP.
EDIT: I've changed ⟨ɒ⟩ to ⟨ɑ⟩ in South African English phonology, per Lass (1990) and other sources. It contrasts with PALM purely by length.
As for the FOOT vowel, ⟨ɵ⟩ would be a nice compromise, as that's how we write the South African vowel. But New Zealand sources use it for the NURSE vowel, though with a length mark. And since the fronted FOOT vowel is unrounded, maybe using ⟨ɵ⟩ for it is not the best idea. Sol505000 (talk) 10:33, 9 August 2021 (UTC)Reply
The article mentions "younger" and "older" speakers a dozen times, but the references are from 20 years ago. When you think "younger speaker" now you're thinking Gen Z/late Millennials while the sources would mean Millennials/Gen X. These mentions should be made more specific. Nixinova T C 21:54, 10 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
The transcription table compares phonemic representations which are not directly comparable between the accent pages. The most egregious example is writing Australian NURSEasɜː when it is actually ɵː. This makes the table slightly misleading. Nixinova T C 06:40, 20 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
The decision to write "ing" as /iːŋ/ instead of the expected /əŋ/ is problematic.
This merger is assumed in transcriptions in this article, which is why ring and writing are transcribed /ɹiːŋ/ and /ˈɹaɪtiːŋ/ (note that when the g is dropped, the vowel also changes: [ˈɹaɪɾən]; such forms are not transcribed in this article). This makes FLEECE the only tense vowel that is permitted before /ŋ/. Some speakers also use this variant before /ɡ/ and, less often, before other consonants. As both KIT and FLEECE can occur in those environments, it must then be analysed as an allophone of KIT. It is transcribed with a plain ⟨ə⟩ in this article and so not differentiated from other allophones of /ə/.
These sentences provide several items of evidence against the claim that "ing" is phonemically /iːŋ/. When the G is dropped it goes back to [ə], and /əŋ/→/ən/ is a much more realistic substitution than /iːŋ/→/ən/. And then the article even says this usage when not with /ŋ/ is just an allophone of KIT
! Let alone the fact that this completely breaches English phonotactics.
Instances of /iːŋ/ should be changed to /əŋ/ and this whole text should be nuked and just replaced with simply Some speakers also use this variant before /ɡ/ and, less often, before other consonants.
Nixinova T C 06:42, 26 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
NZ has the celary-salary merger, so /el/ -> /ɛl/. However, for monosyllabic words the two may be kept separate with a length distinction: "pell" //pel// [pʰɛɫ] vs "pal" //pæl// [pʰɛ:ɫ]. This length distinction is maintained when the L is vocalised - "pal" would be homophonous to "pow" while "pell" wouldn't. Is this mentioned in any sources? Nixinova T C 06:37, 21 January 2023 (UTC)Reply
In the morpheme-final position, the distinction between /ə/ (KIT, COMMA, LETTER) and /a/ (STRUT) is neutralized towards the open /a/ in the word-final position and towards the mid /ə/ elsewhere.
– This is slightly wrong in that /ə/ is pronouced [a] also in syllables immediately preceeding a stressed syllable. The word "about" is not [ə]bout but [a]bout. Nixinova T C 05:56, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply
I also think that this should still be denoted with /ə/. When linking R is applied to "lava" you go from "la:va"+"əz" = "la:vərəz". Nixinova T C 03:45, 25 June 2023 (UTC)Reply