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"Bernhard joined the NSDAP, the SA and a special branch of the SS called the " Reiter SS" ( SS on horseback). The Prince was not a nazi, these memberships made life easier for an ambitious young man." Can one say someone joined the Nazi party and then say that they weren't a nazi? Maybe better to say not a commited nazi?
There seemed to be no conviction involved. I would like to see some discussion of why he joined, though. Note he gave it all up when going to work for Farben, just as the regime was rising and had consolidated its rule. That is, he left that side when it was (seemingly) winning.
Hello all, I agree with Robert. Some of the contributors clearly have a 'hate on' for the prince. Save the editorials for your blog.
Also, this entry should not be titled Bernhard of Lippe-Biesterfeld rather Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands. Individuals with title are being categorized according to their most recent honorific, and that should be the case here. The man died a Prince of the Netherlands and that is how he should be categorized.
Adriaan // Canada
My fellow Wikepedians, there is a lot of nonsense to be found both on this page and in the article! Prince Bernhard was a larger than life figure and some aspects of his life were enigmatic but Wikipedia is not meant to slander people! I will try and correct a few mistakes one of these days. Robert Prummel// The Netherlands
Tell us: was he ever a member of the NSDAP?
And yes i am a republican, but i met the prince and i liked the man a lot!
Hello PMelvilleAustin, Whatever you replaced a series of apostrophes with displayed as '?'s, so I changed them back. What were you were trying to do? -- Viajero 13:18, 2 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Bernhard was a member of the NSDAP, SA and the SS. Anyone knowledgeable willing to make mention of that in the text? -- Dissident (Talk) 21:35, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The membership of the "Reiter SS" ( not the propper regular SS of Auschwitz fame) should be mentioned. Berhard was not a liberal, cristian-democrat or social-Democrat,he was an aristocrat. it seems fair to conclude that he swam with the flow. This did not make him a Nazi. He was above these things.He was ambitious and did what everybody else did to have a flourishing career in a nasty dictatorship. I will include them in the article.
Robert Prummel 19:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
SO WHAT MAKES A PERSON A NAZI? (shemyaza) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.1.227.98 (talk) 08:25, 2 October 2013 (UTC)Reply
"Berhard was not a liberal, cristian-democrat or social-Democrat,he was an aristocrat. it seems fair to conclude that he swam with the flow. This did not make him a Nazi. He was above these things.He was ambitious and did what everybody else did to have a flourishing career in a nasty dictatorship."
So by your definition an aristocrat is above the rules that apply to other people? The man was NOT a shameless gold digger and opportunist, but somebody who "did what everybody else did to have a flourishing career in a nasty dictatorship"? Not EVERYBODY did that, mind you. At least not in Germany. Too many did that, but some did NOT, so not EVERYBODY did it.
Kerr-ist!!! I have never seen anything quite THAT despicable anywhere at Wikipedia. And that means a lot.
-- 84.180.227.122 (talk) 20:22, 12 July 2010 (UTC)Reply
Page appears to be hijacked as of 9:52pm Wednesday (GMT-5)
What a complicated man -- amoral and selfish. It appears that Prince Bernhard, except for his WWII service and the World Wildlife Fund, was on the wrong side of some of the biggest action in the 20th Century. Thanks for the article. 2 Dec 2004 1:07am CST (US)
And what was discussed between him and Hitler when they met to discuss his marriage?
Klinkenberg gives the exact words in "Bernhard,een politieke biografie" Haarlem 1986. The source is above suspicion: It is "Hitlers Tischgespraeche" ( hitlers conversations at the dinnertable)' an exact account of his rambling.Hitler called Bernhard " A complete idiot,shivering before me like a lapdog". Robert Prummel 20:08, 26 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
In this artikle someone says: However, he outraged the Dutch when he declared that he felt sorry for the German General Blaskowitz, later charged with war crimes, who was responsible for the Nazi surrender in the Netherlands. Such matters, plus a much more regal attitude than the unpretentious Princess Juliana, prevented the Prince from becoming genuinely liked by the Dutch, but he won some respect for his hard work in helping to reinvigorate the economy of the Netherlands in post-war years.
I never heard about this incident. Can any one give a source.. thanks.--212.45.53.118 07:44, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I dont think he was trained in Germany as a fighter pilot...in the second half of the thirties he was living in The Netherlands. Bernhard didnt get his 'wings' until in England
Dear User:212.45.53.118,
Without a citation the remarks about Blaskowitz should be deleted.
Robert Prummel 19:48, 26 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
I think the rumor that Bernhard sent a letter to Hitler is just a not notable rumor. Such a rumor does not even deserve to be treated and debunked. Are there any sources for this rumor? Andries 01:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
Dear Andries, The rumor exists and as false rumors go we will never get rid of it! It can not be proven that the Prince wrote this letter. It is highly unlikely that he did. It is out of character. But the rumor will allways persevere... The source? Igor Cornelissen in " Vrij Nederland" 19/4 1980. Tomass Ross wrote a novel about this non-existing letter called " Om Wille van de troon" (For the sake of the Throne) Amsterdam 2002. On 7/2 2004 Prince Bernhard refuted the allegations in a letter to the editor in the newspaper " De Volkskrant". J.G. Kikkert ( Bernhard: "That joke of an historian") wrote about the stadholderletter in his book " De prins in Londen". Soesterberg 2004. Kikkert calls the rumor " bizarre" and concludes that there has never been a letter by Bernhard.
People will never agree about Bernhard, maybe in the future the archives will tell us more, for the moment it is our duty to be fair and concise.
Faithfully yours,
Robert Prummel 19:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)19:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC) GroningenReply
I am making a small edit. When born, Bernhard bore the title of Count of Biesterfeld, rather than Lippe-Biesterfeld. The Biesterfeld branch of the House of Lippe, formerly known as the Counts of Lippe-Biesterfeld, succeeded to the Princely throne on the extinction of the main, Detmold, line on 25 October 1905. They became Princes and discarded the suffix of Biesterfeld at that point. Bernhard, as a morganatic scion of this House -His mother being a mere Baroness and a divorcee at that- was not entitled to the Princely title or the succession. Bernhard's uncle, the reigning Prince Leopold IV made Bernhard and his brother full Princes with the right of succession on 24th of February 1916. His mother, known as Countess of Biesterfeld up to that point, also became a Princess. Bernhard's father had died by then. They however kept the suffix Biesterfeld, discarded by the other members of the family. Perhaps a slight snub to mark their distinction from the non-morganatic members of the House. Also note the distinction in German between "Prinz / Graf zur Lippe-Biesterfeld and "Graf von Biesterfeld. In German it is also "Fürst / Prinz zur Lippe, rather than von Lippe. Both are usually translated into English as "of" and in Dutch as "van". "Zur" means "of the".--Gerard von Hebel 19:44, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply
Now Bernhard is known to the world as Prince Bernhard, Prince Bernhard of Lipe -Biesterfeld an Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands. The period as a count is of little importance. Lets stick to " Bernhard of Lippe-Biesterfeld". This is in compliance with Wiki policy.
Robert Prummel 19:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
I wrote:"The Dutch armed forces wear their medals in a manner that is copied from the Prussian Army. The Prince's deliberate disobedience of the regulations was not widely noticed but it is a clear sign of his allegiance" [citation needed].
Source: H.G.Meijer, author of " Het Vliegerskruis" Amsterdam 1997. Henny Meijer, a fellow member of the "Dutch Society for the study of Orders of Knighthood" met Prince Bernhard to interview him and photograph his medals. In the conversation Bernhard made the remark about his dislike of the regular Prussian style that medals are worn. Mr. Meijer in turn told me. Indeed , the exentric manner in wich H.R.H. wore his medals has been photographed and published thousands of times.
Enough proof?
Robert Prummel 20:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
THE ARTICLE STATES::Outside the Netherlands a great deal was written over the Hofmans affair. On 13 June 1956 an article appeared in the German magazine Der Spiegel with the title Zwischen Königin und Rasputin, literally meaning Between queen and Rasputin, which, as the title already indicates painted a less than flattering picture of Hofmans. Later on, Bernhard admitted that he personally provided the information for the article. It is thought that by doing this he hoped to have Hofmans removed from the court. In addition, various sources have reported that Prince Bernhard tried to get Queen Juliana admitted to a mental institution during this period, in which case he would have ascended to become reigning king of the Netherlands [citation needed]."
MY COMMENT: On 31/1 1956 crown-princess Beatrix had celebrated her 18th. birthday. No regent was necessary. Rumours about this crises abound but it is not documented. It does however show us that the monarchy was in deep crises. I PROPOSE TO DELETE THE LAST SENTENCE.
Robert Prummel 20:57, 26 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
There are a few entries that still need a citation. I propose to skip these unproven entries today. There has been ample time to prove that these entries are facts. We will have to face the fact that some people hate the Prince and the rumours about him will allways persist. The Princes' life was a bit " shady", who knows what we will find out next? Robert Prummel 13:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)Reply
I'm trying to find out more about the source for Hitler's "complete idiot" comment but don't come up with anything when I search for "Hitlers Tischgespraeche." Is this a book Klinkenberg is quoting within his own book?
G.G Kikkert also quites this comment, citing Klinkenberg and an "American publication after the war". Not Wiki-standard.
The book certainly exists: see
Allas! I don't have it. Robert Prummel (talk) 04:37, 3 February 2008 (UTC)Reply
There should be a cite on the claim that the erasure of "honourary" was unconsitutional. --Daniel C. Boyer 16:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC) Why? Any errasure in a royal decree is unconstitutional. But a respectable cite is "Harry van Wijnen, "De Prins Gemaal, Amsterdam 1992, page 66. Robert Prummel (talk) 04:17, 3 February 2008 (UTC)Reply
is it true he was descended from the last roman empire and that he had veto power of any pope? He is a descendant of the merovingian dynasty? This pos was made by User:24.57.210.130 on 15:57, 18 November 2007
References
I have taken out the following:
as it seems to be better left here at the discussion page. Pavel --80.95.254.1 (talk) 13:55, 8 January 2008 (UTC)Reply
"... proof of Prince Bernhard's German SS participation" now reads "providing proof of Prince Bernhard's Reiter SS membership". The prince was not active in the SS and it was not the "real" SS. The SS had lots of organisations, some organised drivers for the Nazi-party. As a student Bernhard had to participate in the NSDAP or quit University. He chose the Kraftfhrer (or was it the Reiter?) SS. He was a member but, in his own words, not an active member, he did not therefore "participate".
SOURCE: [1]
Some sources give "Reiter SS", some "Motor SS"..... difficult.
Robert Prummel (talk) 04:12, 3 February 2008 (UTC)Reply
This article has some examples of Wikipedia Policy:RidingDick that I removed or changed. The early section that said he was a member of NSDAP and SA seem to be trying to cover for him, a bit. For the lazy researcher, you see some alphabet soup and you'll miss entirely that he was associated with the Nazi Party. Note that wikipedia has an article on NAZI PARTY, not merely "NSDAP." That's euphemistic and needed to be clarified. The SA link now goes directly to the proper article, rather than the disambiguation page for "SA."
I also cut some pole-riding comments near the Post WWII area. "The popular and regal, well-connected Prince..." I'm not making that up. I left it as "the popular Prince."--Shink X (talk) 19:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)Reply
If Bernhard was a member of the Nazi Party, that is interesting. We must bear in mind that some countries (e.g. Austria) were not "invaded" so much as they were merely annexed into the German Reich, oftentimes with the overwhelming support of the local population. John Paul Parks (talk) 13:40, 5 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
The claim is made that the Dutch Royal Family Website is wrong without giving a source. How on earth can anyone claim an official website is wrong without giving a source? I propose this sentence is deleted or the a source is given.
The statement indicating that Queen Juliana's "abdication was tacitly understood to be directly related to her husband's conduct" seems tenuous. The scandal was known in 1976 or earlier, but Juliana did not abdicate until 1980. At that point, she was about 71-years old, and her decision to renounce the throne was widely reported as merely being imitative of her mother's abdication in 1948. I note that Queen Beatrix is about 71-years old now, so it will be interesting to see if she abdicates anytime soon. John Paul Parks (talk) 13:37, 5 February 2009 (UTC)Reply
I removed the following paragraph A contribution like this, if included at all, should be relably cited.
Also - the "close friendship" with the Perons is cited by [2], which merely states (in a single line) that he visited them. Should the contribution go? Wikipeterproject (talk) 18:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)Reply
I am confused by this passage: "In an interview published after his death, on 14 December 2004, Prince Bernhard admitted that..." After whose death? I think this must have been trucated from something else along the way. 96.224.14.105 (talk) 02:07, 24 August 2010 (UTC)Reply
well it does say published, so that sounds logical. --KARL RAN (talk) 12:48, 8 October 2010 (UTC)Reply
The second paragraph of the lede says "numerous illegitimate children," the previous paragraph having said he had six children (four of them legitimate). Which is correct? Biblioteqa (talk) 18:07, 5 March 2012 (UTC)Reply
Just cut this little lot out - "(he was a member of the NSDAP and the SS, a convicted bribe-taker and fathered numerous illegitimate children, only one of which he supported or recognized)" - no sources at all chaps? Bad show. Quintessential British Gentleman (talk) 18:48, 13 June 2012 (UTC)Reply
"For assisting specific individuals" in the lede section. It's a very strange claim - we all assist specific individuals unless we are curmudgeonly hermits - but it's also been unsourced for three years. (It's not even good English; after all, what the heck is a non-specific individual?) The rest of the sentence seems to be supported by the sources later in the article, but that? Has no relation to anything. --NellieBly (talk) 22:34, 16 December 2012 (UTC)Reply
As of Aug. 11 2016 the article's first paragraph lists his name as:
Prince Bernhard Leopold Frederik Everhard Julius Coert Karel Godfried Pieter of Lippe-Biesterfeld
and his birth name as:
Bernhard Friedrich Eberhard Leopold Julius Kurt Carl Gottfried Peter Graf von Biesterfeld
but the Early Life section of the article has:
"Bernhard was born Bernhard Leopold Friedrich Eberhard Julius Kurt Karl Gottfried Peter Graf von Biesterfeld"
What's the correct spelling and ordering of his names? Xelkman (talk) 03:45, 12 August 2016 (UTC)Reply
Wilson[1] links him to Boy Scouting, in passing; was he involved?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:09, 31 October 2016 (UTC)Reply
References
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in paragraph Second World War: The wording "War Admirality" is totally strange to me! The "Admirality" is the correct wording for the higher staff of the Royal Navy and not "War Admirality"! 80.151.9.187 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:27, 7 January 2019 (UTC)Reply
Recently there is evidence that Bernard was a member of the NSDAP nazi movement. The file is now published by the Royal family. Feel free to verify that and adjust his WIKI to be clear on this man's personality and history. 2A02:A445:71DB:1:590B:62D:6165:2CEB (talk) 01:18, 6 October 2023 (UTC)Reply