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The result was: promotedbySL93 (talk) 02:17, 10 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
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Improved to Good Article status by XOR'easter (talk) and Tercer (talk). Nominated by Tercer (talk) at 13:30, 23 March 2021 (UTC).Reply
What User:David spector is saying in support of editing out the sentence about the superdeterminism loophole are all known facts in Qauntum Mechanics. I already know that superdeterminism is not well accepted within the physics community, and I respect that. Therefore, I only added one single sentence in the article Quantum Mechanics, under the paragraph for hidden variables, without editing out any previous sentences: "However, Bell tests cannot close the superdeterminism loophole, therefore, local hidden variables cannot be completely ruled out." This is a small addition compared to the entire article, and it's only an addition at the end of a relevant paragraph, which was on hidden variables. Besides, the existence of local hidden variables have been supported by Einstein and Schrodinger, and has been suggested by John Bell himself, and is still supported by a Nobel winner Gerard 't Hooft. So I don't understand David Spector and User:Tercer's strong objection to it.
Anyone who has read anything about quantum mechanics has read statements like "Our commonsense intuition, which validates local realism, is certainly valid in large scales, all the way up. But it is just as certainly misleading when applied to the very tiniest of scales." However, if I follow that reasoning, I could also say that, "Our commonsense intuition, which validates randomness, is certainly valid in large scales, all the way up. But it is just as certainly misleading when applied to the very tiniest of scales." In our everyday observations, a lot of things seem random, but once we think deeply and find patterns, we find a very deterministic mechanism. This can apply for quantum mechanics as well.
Superdeterminism loophole was not simply created to prove Bell's theorem can't be used to disprove the existence of local hidden variables (I discovered this loophole on my own independently the first time I read about Bell's theorem almost a decade ago, and back then, I didn't even know someone else on earth also thought of this loophole and came up with this term "superdeterminism"). It's just a name given to the internal logical fallacy, namely a circular reasoning, itself within Bell's theorem. Bell's theorem attempts to disprove local hidden variables, and local hidden variables would have made the whole quantum mechanics a completely deterministic system. However, Bell's theorem also requires that measurement settings can be chosen randomly. The problem within this theorem is that, if local hidden variables really existed, measurement settings can never be chosen randomly in the first place. So if you already make the assumption that measurement settings can be chosen randomly, I don't see the point of doing all those experiments to prove that the observations of quantum mechanics are really random. Local hidden variables may really not exist, that's a reasonable possibility. However, even if local hidden variables didn't exist, we can't use Bell's theorem to disprove local hidden variables, because it requires the assumption that local hidden variables don't exist (ergo, circular reasoning). But if local hidden variables exist, the inevitable consequence is that Nature is deterministic, therefore the universe must be derdeterministic from the moment of Big Bang. This is now unfortunately called "supderdeterministic", but there is nothing "super" about it.
So basically, when we see randomness in the quantum world, we have two options:
(1) We can refuse to accept the principle that reality is deterministic, even though a vast number of observations in physics (everywhere except the quantum-scale world) support it and this deterministic principle (local reality) has been successful to explain countless phenomena, and accept that observations in the quantum world are really random, which would lead to all these "counterintuitive" observations and paradoxes.
(2) We can refuse to accept the principle that reality is random, even though a vast number of observations in physics (only in the quantum-scale world) support it and this indeterministic principle (absence of local reality) hasn't prevented us from being successful in explaining countless phenomena, and accept that observations in the quantum world are really deterministic, in which case, we have to assume the existence of a local hidden variable.
For a minority group of people including me, Option 2 seems more sensible, because I don't believe that Nature can have paradoxes, and I believe that there is a underlying mechanism for every inexplicable observation and we can eventually know that mechanism. Accepting Option 2 would still leave the room open that perhaps someday someone will develop concrete theories for local hidden variables (just like how the existence of germs was denied by academics for a long time, and just like how the existence of atoms was also denied by academics for a long time until the twentieth century, but they were eventually proved to be correct). But denying the possibility of its existence altogether would discourage a lot of physicists to explore this idea altogether, because they would wrongly assume that local hidden variables have been completely ruled out, which Bell's theorem can't really do.
But if someone accepts Option 1, this is a dead end.There would be no way to resolve paradoxes and inexplicable things in the quantum world, and it would be impossible to reconcile quantum mechanics with general relativity (a theory that has also been immensely successful), let alone predicting motions of individual elementary particles. I don't understand why anyone would have a strong opposition to a completely deterministic reality and why anyone would really think that things are really random rather than considering the possibility that perhaps there is something more to it that we still don't know but can potentially discover eventually. I don't understand why the majority supports randomness even after physics has been able to show again and again that a lot of observations that initially seemed random were later turned out to be deterministic and can be explained with equations. But that's not for me to think about.
David Spector and Tercer, if my arguments sound reasonable to you, I can add back that sentence to the article on Quantum Mechanics. While I think that your editing out a row from the table within the article Interpretations of Quantum Mechanics and your editing out a few sentences that I added in the Superdeterminism article can be debated, I strongly believe that that single sentence ("However, Bell tests cannot close the superdeterminism loophole, therefore, local hidden variables cannot be completely ruled out.") still has a much-deserved place in the article Quantum Mechanics. Please let me know your thoughts. Proshno (talk) 02:35, 11 August 2023 (UTC)Reply
We need a section shortly after the lead titled something like "Quantum Systems" that defines what a quantum system is and goes into detail about the different types of quantum systems. I'm an IP editor so I can't edit the article.
The impetus for this is: There are many articles in Wikipedia which mention the term "quantum system" or "quantum mechanical system"; Like for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_emission . I was reading that article and I wanted to know what a quantum mechanical system is. It is even linked in the article. So I followed the link and I get to the page for quantum mechanics, which explains the field of physics but does not readily define what a quantum system or quantum mechanical system is.
So in short, this article needs a section that goes over what a quantum mechanical system is, including the different types of common systems like molecule, atom, subatomic particle, and potentially many particle systems.
Something like the following:
== Quantum Systems == A quantum system is a physical system that can be analyzed using quantum mechanics. Quantum systems are fundamentally irreducible, in that to analyze the system one needs to know the total state of the system to make any useful observation on it. In contrast, an [[open quantum system]] is one where not all the information about the system need to be known to be able to make a useful analysis. Examples of quantum systems include: * [[atom]]s * molecules * subatomic particles * other many particle systems Mathematically, a quantum system is the [[tensor product]] of its component systems.<ref>https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/quantum-system</ref> — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.223.203 (talk • contribs)
The intro has a paragraph featuring bound states but the text has no corresponding section. Johnjbarton (talk) 16:03, 16 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
Hello. This is regarding a minor edit that was recently reverted.
'Quantum mechanics differs from classical physics in that energy,..., bound states are restricted to discrete values(of energy,...)' which had a change of 'are' to 'can be' since Bound states may not necessarily have discrete energy, for example.
@Johnjbarton Let's put our arguments and wait to see what others think. I think the article can remain as 'can be' to avoid inaccuracy in the meanwhile. EditingPencil (talk) 16:38, 16 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
The redirect Quantum realm has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Quantum realm until a consensus is reached. Utopes (talk / cont) 00:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC)Reply