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Currently, I am struggling to understand why we need to keep modifying the table at all. Including the other article, first the table had to have the colors changed to prevent some sort of "insidious implication" with the colors. Then we needed a note to explain the Vote to Table column. Next, the tables were synced before the colors we again switched to show Against as red, implying that the Vote to Table succeeded.
Personally, I don't see what the need was to even change the colors in the first place. The original table made it clearer whose votes were not in line with their party. Those who have a blue background had a vote lining up with the Democratic party, those in red has a vote lining up with the Republican party, and those in grey were absent. That was simple and clear. Now we have a table where the colors don't line up with the success or failure of the vote, but if it was a 'positive vote or a negative vote.' Pinging Nevermore27 for input. --Super Goku V (talk) 19:51, 4 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
I'm not too familiar with arbitration enforcement, but from what I gathered it seems that Template:American politics AE should be added by an admin, which it wasn't (see [1]). If it was a valid addition, I think the Template:American politics AE/Edit notice needs to be added to the article, which also can only be done by an admin. Liu1126 (talk) 15:38, 5 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
{{Contentious topics/talk notice|ap}}
. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 03:49, 6 October 2023 (UTC)ReplySome facts that illustrate the unique brevity of McCarthy’s tenure as speaker. One or more of these might be worth adding, if property sourced.
If my research is correct:
The result of the move request was: Moved to Removal of Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the House. While those opposed a move based their arguments primarily on WP:CONCISE, there are many more supporting a move to indicate from what position the person was being removed from from WP:WORLDVIEW perspective. Among the many proposed titles, all of which are variants of the initial proposed titles, the Removal of Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the House title has more support among the participants here. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 16:11, 21 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Removal of Kevin McCarthy → Removal of Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the United States House of Representatives – Mostly per WP:NCE and WP:NCGAL and how our sources refer to the topic generally (as far as I've seen, all sources mention his former role as Speaker, and the sources almost always talk about the House of Representatives). WP:NOYEAR per the Tenerife airport disaster example (this is the first time a Speaker of the US House of Representatives has been removed). WP:CONCISE concerns are correctly balanced by WP:PRECISE, and as Wikipedia is designed for readers around the world, omitting the country creates a bias against non-American readers. See also WP:NCGAL Use official names in article titles (United States Department of the Treasury instead of Treasury Department), unless an agency is almost always known by an acronym or different title (DARPA)
. —Locke Cole • t • c 23:28, 8 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Articles where the article name can mean several different things tend to default to subject matter more familiar to the average Wikipedian. "Removal of ..." by itself is exceptionally vague for something that is so specific (McCarthy was removed from his role as the Speaker, not from his role as Representative in the United States House of Representatives). —Locke Cole • t • c 23:39, 8 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Oppose solely because the proposed title is basically the same as the last RM, except now he has been removed.Just to be clear, the prior RM was launched on October 3, but McCarthy had been voted out on October 2. The prior RM was, IMO, doomed from the beginning because of that basic fact. Thank you for providing an alternative you'd support and at least addressing WP:PAG, see below my counter-proposal. =) —Locke Cole • t • c 03:53, 9 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Just to be clear, the prior RM was launched on October 3, but McCarthy had been voted out on October 2.- Just to clear this up for the record, October 2nd was when the motion to vacate the chair was filed in the House. October 3rd in the morning was when the RM started and McCarthy was voted out that afternoon/evening. (Still doomed as it was a bit premature.)
the proposed title is basically the same as the last RM, the prior RM was submitted as Efforts to remove Kevin McCarthy → Efforts to remove Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the US House of Representatives. The modifications to the proposal after it was submitted because of a move that broke policy and should not have happened caused a significant amount of trouble; a number of votes were opposes because the rename would make it Efforts to remove when McCarthy had already been removed while a number of supports were agreeing to a move, but not to the Efforts to remove title.
...balance brevity with sufficient information to identify the topic..., not that we need to make the title as shortest as possible.
That RM was closed as moot and then reopened, which means that commenters thereafter should've had a clear understanding that the title as proposed there was no longer an option.It is clear by a number of comments that not all users understood that the RM was closed, the article was moved, the RM was reopened, and then modified. A number of users failed to follow Template:Title notice (with those moves now logged above) and that discussion was messed up as a result. Hence why I suggest it is better to somewhat ignore the prior RM. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:05, 12 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
I would also spport a move to Removal of Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the House. Would Removal of Kevin McCarthy as Speaker of the U.S. House suffice? There are other governments around the world with a "House". —Locke Cole • t • c 03:26, 9 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
First of all, the capitalization is problematic. The word "speaker" should not be capitalized.Yes it should, please see WP:NCGAL, specifically Use official names in article titles (United States Department of the Treasury instead of Treasury Department), unless an agency is almost always known by an acronym or different title (DARPA).
Secondly, there is no other notable removal we need to disambiguate this one from.Please see WP:NCE and again WP:NCGAL; I've already conceded WP:NOYEAR should be applicable here, but we still must do more than simply name an article Removal of Kevin McCarthy and leave our readers to guess what the hell he got removed from.. also consider WP:PLA and how this very vague title looks to non-Americans/Europeans (WP:WORLDVIEW). I'll remind !voters of WP:LOCALCON. If you want to overturn a sitewide guideline or policy, here is not the place to try and do that. —Locke Cole • t • c 03:24, 9 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Use official names in article titles .... And since you appear to believe "Speaker" should be lowercase, perhaps you can explain why these exist: List of Speaker of the United States House of Representatives elections, January 2015 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election, October 2015 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election, 2019 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election, 2021 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election, January 2023 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election, and October 2023 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election. —Locke Cole • t • c 02:37, 10 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
This is basically the same proposal that was just closed with the comment "there is a clear consensus against this proposed move".Out of morbid curiousity, @Station1, could you tell us what the last RM proposed title was, and what if any difference there might be to this RM? —Locke Cole • t • c 02:38, 10 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
If you're hinting that that had something to do with the close, I disagree.So the many !votes stating oppose because the title would be "Efforts to remove ..." didn't factor in?
Exceptions to the precision criterion may sometimes result from the application of some other naming criteria. I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that we should strive for the shortest name possible at the expense of all other things which would seem to be so common sense it shouldn't need to be in writing. And yet here I am, arguing against Removal of Kevin McCarthy, a title which leaves only American citizens with enough context to determine what it's about (and even then, only if the person follows politics at all, which there are clearly people who don't). If we want to go WP:PRECISE vs. WP:CONCISE, I'm not seeing how this is a "middle ground". What's the more concise version of this? Removal of Kev? —Locke Cole • t • c 01:24, 11 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Impeachment of Bill Clinton, Relief of Douglas MacArthur, Dismissal of James Comey, Firing of Shirley Sherrod—we usually don't include offices in titles like these.Nothing has changed since then; it's not necessary to add the position since the title's still unambiguous and reading past the very first sentence explains everything. eviolite (talk) 13:45, 13 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize.A review of the news sources indicate that they often refer to his removal without adding any additional precision as to what he was removed from. The existing title is sufficiently recognisable. The other route for readers to arrive at this page is from links (eg from articles on the person or the position) and these will be in a context that will reasonably clarify what he was removed from without the need for additional precision in the article title. As an aside, we would only capitalise speakerorhouse if it were used as part of the full name of the position (eg Speaker of the United States House of Representatives}}. MOS:JOBTITLES, MOS:SIGNIFCAPS and MOS:INSTITUTIONS applies. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:27, 14 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article was proposed as a potential choice for the 2023 in the United States collage. You are free to participate in the collage choice discussion here: Talk:2023 in the United States#Collage submissions. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 07:51, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply