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It is stated in the 2nd para that "Scouting began in 1907 when Robert Baden-Powell, Lieutenant General in the British Army, held the first Scouting encampment at Brownsea Island in England." I think the wording should be revised to something like: "By tradition, Scouting is said to have begun in 1907. It was then that Robert Baden-Powell, ..."
I would be bold and just revise it that way, but I think the first sentence requires a footnote to a source about the date generally being ascribed to be 1907, and i don't have the appropriate source.
This wording would be more factual. It is hard to define the beginning point of Scouting. It could easily be defined, instead, to be the earlier date of the siege of Mafeking in which Baden-Powell organized and/or noticed boys engaging in military support and also engaging with his handbook on scouting for soldiers. Or, the date could be defined to be 1905, when i read that Daniel Carter Beard started the Sons of Daniel Boone organization (which was later folded into Boy Scouts in 1910). My point is that the date Scouting began is something that is arbitrary, albeit perhaps by a kind of consensus, and the wikipedia article should be clear about that, not just uncritically repeat what is said. doncram (talk) 05:20, 21 January 2009 (UTC)Reply
The reference to the 'Baden-Powell Scouting Society' being formed in 1900 is by E.E. Reynolds who didn't cite a source. Is there any other reference?
Robert c2227 (talk 03:21, 27 January 2013
So, who can put an exact date on when the Scout Movement started? For all the edits and re-edits by "experts" in the years since this comment was first posted, we still don't have a clear answer. The Scout Association's incorporating royal charter of 1912 ]] [1] gives a vague date of 1908, yet The Scout Association later claimed 1907. Surely the great observant scout and "genius", Baden-Powell, who petitioned for the royal charter in 1911 knew when he supposedly founded the scouts just a few years before. Too many lies are hidden by such vagaries. The Scout Movement developed but The Scout Association started on an exact date.
This article needs to distinguish the Scout Movement from The Scout Association
Robert c2227 (talk) 06:55, 13 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
DiverScout, "Generally accepted" does not make it a validated historical fact. In what way was the Brownsea Island Camp '"official"' as you state? As your comment above (of 21 January 2009) indicates there were boys forming scouting organizations such as the "Baden-Powell Scouting Society" in 1900. Why qualify the facts and try and attach some other meaning to them? Why not just stick to the facts and state that Baden-Powell held a camp on Brownsea Island in 1907 without trying to claim that it marked the beginning of something or was an 'official' start of something else. Stick to the facts. Robert c2227 (talk) 02:38, 27 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
References
DiverScout, you resort to vague generalities e.g. "This has been taken...". By whom, when and where? As you challenge, "find a reliable, independent source". What was the "rule book" by Baden-Powell? Have you ever even seen Baden-Powell's book in its original edition? Then you dismiss the BPSS as "proto-scouting". The difference with your attempted Rugby analogy is that none of the other Rugby-like games were called Rugby. With the BPSS and others you dismiss as "proto-Scouting" we have Scouts doing scouting, calling themselves and being called Scouts and Boy Scouts doing scouting, calling themselves boy scouts and being called Boy Scouts. ... and then you resort to threats. Just a bully!
You cannot state something as fact in the lead, then reference it in a way somewhere in the body which, when critically examined, makes it apparent that the lead is misleading and deceptive. The aim of one organization is not the aim of the movement. Both "generally considered" and "This has been taken as the accepted" are attempts at fudging facts. Stick to the plain facts and stop trying to embellish them with a story to suit your own beliefs. Robert c2227 (talk) 14:03, 27 January 2013 (UTC)Reply
The article begins with this: "This article is about the Scouting Movement." So what exactly IS a "Scout"? The great strength of the Scout and Guide Movements - the greatest movements for peace that the world has ever known - is that every member has made the same Promise, and keeps the same Laws - albeit in different forms and different languages. Therefore, the first Scout was the first to take that Promise to keep those Laws. Hence there cannot have been a Scout (in the sense that this article is about) until the Promise and the Laws had been published - which it was in "Scouting for Boys", so that gives the earliest possible date. Am I wrong? The boys on Brownsea were NOT Scouts. Similarly, the Bible (Acts 11:26) tells us that it was in Antioch that they first called themselves Christians. Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. I believe, too, (BICBW) that every enrolled British Scout's enrollment had to be registered by the Boy Scout Association. Also, a Scout is (by definition) part of a Patrol, and part of a Scout Troop - which itself has to be "registered". Whithout meeting these criteria, no boy is "officially" a Scout. Does the Scout Association have those records still? One would think so, and I find it extra-ordinary that this date is still in doubt ! RobinClay (talk) 19:07, 6 September 2014 (UTC)Reply
I corrected a mistake on this page not that long ago about Brownsea Island being called the first Scout Camp. It of course wasn’t the first Scout camp and was actually a Boys Brigade camp used to experiment with the idea of Scouting, because of this I see no reason why it should be featured as the first image that comes up on that tab this in many ways could add to the misconception about Brownsea Island. Pongo774532 (talk) 22:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC)Reply
That’s a fair point, how about having images of both sites as mentioned in a article from the I believe Hexham 1st who I mentioned it’s a case of the Chicken or the egg. Pongo774532 (talk) 18:20, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply
A decent part of this article is just plain unsourced. The rest of the sourcing leaves a great deal to be desired. Although there are high quality books and scholarly sources about Scouting, this article relies heavily on websites affiliated with the scouting movement. (t · c) buidhe 07:03, 19 November 2022 (UTC)Reply
In reference to the final sentence of the History -> Influences section, which says "Worldwide, roughly one in three Scouts are Muslim." The source it gives for this says "it is said that worldwide, roughly one in three Scouts are Muslim", which does not seem to be intended as a factual claim; it does not reference any actual data. Since the scouting tradition is strongest in Anglophone countries with relatively low Muslim populations (e.g. Britain, North America, Australia), and were explicitly Christian historically, I think this is unlikely to be an accurate statistic. It might be better to revise this to say something like "A growing population of Scouts worldwide are Muslim" or "policies of scouting organizations have broadened to be more open to Muslim members" - these would preserve the intent of this sentence while being more factually accurate, and better reflecting what the article cited actually says.
@Graywalls:, I reverted your edit. There are more than 100 sources. If you think some are bad, please tag those sources rather than slapping a template on the top of the page. Thanks. --evrik (talk) 03:23, 21 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
I am going to be AFK until next week. Just an FYI, I just posted this: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Graywalls reported by User:Evrik (Result:_) --evrik (talk) 03:58, 25 March 2024 (UTC)Reply