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On 28 Feb, I added the following paragraph to the Victoria_Nuland page:
^^^^
This is how you re-write history. Shameful. Victoria Nudelman said "Fuck the EU". You want to leave it out, fine, but don't make stuff up 84.104.41.19 (talk) 19:18, 2 November 2015 (UTC)Reply
This paragraph was deleted (for the second time) by user NazariyKaminski, on the grounds that it was not adequately referenced. May I ask whether other WikiPedians consider this material adequately referenced, and worth adding to this page? Many thanks. DomLaguna (talk) 13:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC)Reply
--- Can someone please explain her beef with the EU for the sake of context? I know the EU has back-stabbed the United States with the petroeuro but how deep does this mutual animosity run? - 67.7.203.155 (talk) 03:49, 12 March 2014 (UTC)Reply
The anonymous criticism above, from 69.158.124.43, that "It lacked any references and made no sense" is tendentious and factually incorrect. The section is indeed carefully referenced, and makes good sense. There are indeed different recorded versions of the same conversation. It is bizarre, which is why it is worth reporting in Wikipedia. If you chase down the recordings of the Nuland-Pyatt conversation on Youtube and elsewhere, you will find that there are two (and maybe more) quite different versions of the SAME phone conversation. Evidently, there has been some editing or splicing of an original recording so that the parts of the conversation appear in different sequences. We don't know which of the public versions is more original, or if both derive, through editing, from some unknown third version. It's not (only) the reports that differ. It's the actual recordings in circulation. I have documented the two different recordings in my text. Both are publicly available at Youtube. Also, one is on the BBC website and the other is at archive.org. I am now reinstating the text for the second time, because it is of high public interest. I am also contacting the Wikipedia authorities for advice on this dispute. 2001:62A:4:2600:7532:2F28:5BCC:8752 (talk) 14:36, 8 April 2014 (UTC)Reply
I have researched the different-phonecall-versions issue sufficiently to know that the (so-called) GlobalTVz version is fake. In the correct version, Victoria's statement makes conversational sense, that if the UN can help glue it, then F the EU. That is, we don't need them. In the GlobalTVZ version, Victoria comes out of the blue after Pyatt's comment about the Russian possible attempt to torpedo it. It clearly doesn't fit. Moreover, Pyatt would not have said "No, exactly" at that point in that case. (The "no" is subdued, but everybody seems to agree it is "no".)
This shows how someone with basically nothing can use Wiki to promote their POV.
The entire section about multiple versions should be eliminated, and a reference to GlobalTVZ's pitiful fraud should just be eliminated as well.
I personally won't do anything. I'll state my analysis, and leave it at that. (I neglected to log-in and my comment didn't show my sig. I edited it slightly after I did login.) Nehmo (talk) 06:30, 9 May 2014 (UTC)2605:A601:250:8601:6D43:FA15:B560:40B4 (talk) 06:17, 9 May 2014 (UTC)Reply
I have reinstated the account of the two versions of the recording. I hope NazariyKaminski does not delete it again. I have satisfied his requirement for better referencing. Anyone else: please let me know if you think this paragraph needs improvement. DomLaguna (talk) 09:50, 14 March 2014 (UTC)Reply
"TheRedPenOfDoom" deleted my changes of yesterday without discussion and without justification. My edits were minimal, clear and well-referenced. I have reinstated my edits, pending a reasoned discussion here about the status of this text. TheRedPenOfDoom has a controversial track-record here at WikiPedia DomLaguna (talk) 01:16, 12 June 2014 (UTC)Reply
Dear Friends, I have rewritten the account of these multiple phonecall versions in a manner that I believe takes into account the suggestions and discussions above, and that is brief, uncontroversional and to the point. It also follows WP guidelines and is referenced as necessary. I sincerely hope that we can now leave the matter here. If you disagree with the current version, kindly discuss it here before deleting it wholesale, and generate a consensus on your proposed new wording. DomLaguna (talk) 17:00, 19 July 2014 (UTC)Reply
Iselilja!!! How could you? You deleted my text within one minute of my post. This is a gross violation of WP policy. What is your motivation? Why do you not wish to discuss the matter here in Talk, rationally, and come to a balanced expression of these matters that you and the rest of us can agree upon? DomLaguna (talk) 17:16, 19 July 2014 (UTC)Reply
Dear Iselilja When you immediately deleted my last post, you said "(Undid revision 617599171 by Wujastyk (talk) Removing WP:OR, that is introduction of video that has not been covered in reliable sources.)" The only video I referred to is that of GlobalTVz, which is on YouTube. This is a reliable source. There's no WP policy that one cannot refer to YouTube videos. Furthermore, you suggest with your WP:OR reference that this post can be deleted on the grounds that it is original research. This post reports the appearence of materials at YouTube and The Archive. It remains carefully noncommittal about the meaning and background of these materials, presenting no research on these matters. It links the existence of these versions to Nuland's public comment on 7 Feb about "tradecraft", which adds legitimation to the discussion of these matters. How do you respond to this? I have initiated a "Diff of edit warring / 3RR warning" complaint with WikiPedia because you have reverted my various rewritten and re-edited posts on this topic four times. DomLaguna (talk) 17:44, 19 July 2014 (UTC)Reply
Dear Iselilja, you miss the point about what a source is. When we cite a source, we are not simultaneously making a judgement about the trustworthiness of that source. If you cite the Bible, you don't have to get into a big discussion about whether you believe God wrote it or not. You cite the Bible because everyone can find it and check the citation for themselves. What you believe about its origins and value is another subject, and one you may well choose to discuss. But it isn't necessary for the citation. If I wanted to cite a source for "quack", I could cite one of the Disney Donald Duck cartoons. If I want to cite a joke, I could cite the lavatory wall on which I saw it. I don't have to think the source is particularly authoritative. The point is to give a source that others can check, in order to find where you got your information. I completely agree with you that there may be something fishy about GlobalTVz. I think it is worth investigating, and writing about. Please go ahead - I don't have time or inclination. We can even say "GlobalTVz is fishy and bears further scrutiny". I think that would be a good idea (and I may already have said that in one of my many rewrites, no?). But whatever GlobalTVz may really be, it doesn't matter at all for our present purposes and the Nuland phonecall versions. All that matters is is that we state the facts and give references so that others may also check our sources. DomLaguna (talk) 15:02, 2 August 2014 (UTC)Reply
lol much ado about nothing, attributing/debating the intentions of genocidal murderers and criminals aka vile us state dept operatives... very funny — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.42.57.237 (talk) 17:29, 17 August 2016 (UTC)Reply
References
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From the recent book by Isikoff and Corn:
“We wanted to raise the cost in a manner Putin recognized,” Nuland recalled.
Knowing that Putin was notoriously protective of any information about his family, Wallander suggested targeting Putin himself. She proposed leaking snippets of classified intelligence to reveal the secret bank accounts in Latvia held for Putin’s daughters—a direct poke at the Russian president that would be sure to infuriate him. Wallander also brainstormed ideas with Victoria Nuland, the assistant secretary of state for European affairs and a fellow hard-liner. They drafted other proposals: to dump dirt on Russian websites about Putin’s money, about the girlfriends of top Russian officials, about corruption in Putin’s United Russia party—essentially to give Putin a taste of his own medicine.
So, is this what caused russia to kick our asses?
Putin sure did recognize it when Nuland et al raised his costs.
if the above is correct, then should a new section be added concerning who authorized the Panama Papers hack?
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwd1 (talk • contribs) 14:35, 11 March 2018 (UTC)Reply
Re: "stated on the that the EU" should there be a word between the two bolded ones? ϢereSpielChequers 22:48, 26 October 2019 (UTC)Reply
It's a small thing, but it feels misleading to frame her departure from a political appointment requiring senate confirmation to say it was "amid the departure of many career officials who left in the early days of the Trump administration." It doesn't make a significant difference, like with many executive branch positions, the Trump administration was slow to replace her, and it's arguable she would have been left in the position instead of appointing someone in an acting capacity, but it doesn't really feel like it should be grouped with the resignations of apolitical state department officials or framed like it was particularly unusual. 99.237.222.68 (talk) 14:51, 24 April 2023 (UTC)Reply
The article says that Nuland graduated with a B.A. degree in 1983.
Then, in 1993, she became chief of staff to the deputy secretary of state - a pretty serious position, which implies that, by that point, she had earned the trust of the political establishment and gotten herself on "the inside" of US politics. How'd she manage that?
What was she up to for the decade after she graduated from college? That would give important insight as to why she was elevated into such important positions.
I'm going to look for sources that discuss what she was doing between 1983-1993. I think it would be great if other editors did the same. Philomathes2357 (talk) 19:02, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Her father was born in 1930 according to Wikipedia. That is the Soviet Union not Russian Empire. 2601:195:C382:DD0:F454:D3C8:7362:ED21 (talk) 17:04, 10 March 2024 (UTC)Reply