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@ElKevbo and I have been disagreeing about this (adding that Yale is a prestigious university in the lede) for some time. Instead of edit warring, the mature and proper thing would be to talk about it here, so here it is.
Schools like its well-known rival Harvard and another great school like Stanford both have similar statements. The consensus of a related RfC was that it is permissible to add statements of prestige in the lede of universities as long as they are supported (which was the case in the Yale article, or so I believe). I don't understand why schools like Yale, Princeton, and MIT does not deserve the statement like Harvard and Stanford. I'm not saying that one schools is better than the other; rather, I am pointing out the inconsistency. Thanks for any comments on this. Do we really need to open a new RfC?
(I'm at school and may not be able to check this talk page regularly. Please feel free to leave a message on my talk page if I don't respond :)) William2001(talk)(Please ping when replying) 02:01, 26 March 2023 (UTC)Reply
Again, despite the consensus, someone reverted and removed the statement, claiming that Britannica was not a reliable source. I have added it back. Please see the edit summary for a quote from WP:RS explicitly supporting the use of reputable encyclopedias like Britannica as a reliable source. Thanks. William2001(talk)(Please ping when replying) 01:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
This argument seems so strange to me. The perception of Yale as a prestigious university so widespread that it's almost universal, to the point that most articles simply assume that readers are aware of this. A statement about how Yale is a prestigious university should certainly be included in the lede (as they are for Harvard and Stanford). Here are some examples of reputable publications referring to Yale as prestigious (it's noticeable that this is included even in articles that shed a bad light on the university):
"Yale University carries a centuries-long history that cements its place among the Ivy League and stands as one of the most prestigious schools in the United States."
"The Justice Department sued Yale University on Thursday on the grounds that the prestigious university discriminated against white and Asian-American applicants during its rigorous admission process."
"It wasn’t what she imagined when she was admitted to Yale, one of the country’s most prestigious universities."
"Yale University President Peter Salovey is stepping down after 11 years at the helm of one of the nation’s most prestigious and wealthiest universities."
"Yale University agreed to settle a lawsuit alleging the prestigious university discriminated against students with mental health disabilities, according to a joint statement from the university and plaintiffs."
@Magnolia677: You've removed the quote from Facebook twice now. I wanted to discuss this with you, given that several reliable sources have commented on that particular quote. For reference, the quote is:
Dear Yale, I loved being here. I only wish I could’ve had some time. I needed time to work things out and to wait for new medication to kick in, but I couldn’t do it in school, and I couldn’t bear the thought of having to leave for a full year, or of leaving and never being readmitted. Love, Luchang.
Luchang Wang, posted on Facebook in 2015 shortly before her death[1][2][3][4][5]
On January 27, 2015, Yale sophomore Luchang Wang made a Facebook post expressing her fear of facing university dismissal due to her depression. Hours later, she jumped to her death.
Five years before the pandemic derailed so many college students’ lives, a 20-year-old math major named Luchang Wang posted this message on Facebook:and proceeds to quote the post in full with analysis.
"The fact that [Wang’s] suicide note specifically mentioned the role of withdrawal and readmission policies was pretty inflammatory among undergraduates," said Caroline Posner, a sophomore at Yale who has advocated for mental-health reform on campus.
The end of Wang’s note — in which she discussed her fears about taking time off from Yale and not being allowed to return — casts new light on a campus debate about how the University handles cases of mental illness, withdrawal and readmission. While some students have criticized the University’s policies as cold and demanding, others have emphasized the complex confluence of factors that led to Tuesday’s tragedy.
On January 27, Yale University mathematics major Luchang Wang jumped to her death from San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge, leaving behind a Facebook post saying that while she was in deep emotional pain, she feared that if she left school to get treatment she would not be allowed back.
The reason why I included the years is that this demonstrates that most reliable sources covering Yale's policies on mental health (as well as mental health in American universities) consider the post to be important. They analyze it and frequently quote it verbatim, with multiple articles over the course of 7 years.
While I understand that you see this as over-the-top and unnecessary
[1], the fact that this may be shocking to our readers isn't a reason not to include a heavily analyzed and quoted statement from a student on Yale's mental health policy. At least 3 reliable sources (I can try to find more) considered the quote important enough to include it in their articles, and the other two I've cited still devote analysis to the post. It's necessary for readers to see the post to understand reactions to it.
I'm also not sure what you meant by This article is about a university; it is out-of-scope to post a suicide note on this article.
[2] While the post may be a suicide note, it directly criticizes Yale's policies on mental health. It's been subject to at least 5 reliable sources analyzing it over a period of several years, specifically in the context of the university's response to the note. It's very in-scope to include the note, though perhaps we can rework the section to provide the necessary coverage to contextualize the note.
I don't understand why you don't apply this standard to virtually any other part of the article, such as the seven-paragraph listing of every alumnus of Yale with a Wikipedia article, or the athletics section, the frequently unsourced listing of clubs, or whatever else. There are more independent reliable sources covering that one quote than entire subsections of this article, so my belief is that it's not WP:UNDUE. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 22:37, 21 June 2023 (UTC)Reply
Editors of controversial subjects should quote the actual spoken or written words to refer to the most controversial ideas.It's a dramatic and controversial claim that Yale University caused her suicide. Policy says quotes are the best way to express that. Wikipedia:Quotations#Formatting also recommends block quotes for quotes over 40 words in length, though I agree that the placing is too prominent and have suggested a right-aligned box instead.
Neutrality requires that mainspace articles and pages fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in those sources.This is a significant viewpoint, published in most reliable sources covering mental health at Yale, and is prominent in all of them. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 00:36, 22 June 2023 (UTC)Reply
References
Regarding the statement "Yale is a prestigious university", there are two questions:
No further explanation needed here. See above section titled "Prestige statement" for discussions. Also, refer to the edit summaries of our edits. William2001(talk)(Please ping when replying) 14:37, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
It is among the most prestigious universities in the nation.[3]
Even with well-sourced material, if you use it out of context, or to reach or imply a conclusion not directly and explicitly supported by the source, you are engaging in original research[.]
...is among the most prestigious universities in the country, there should be paragraphs expounding upon prestige and the perceptions of the university's prestige in relation to other universities in the United States. There's not any of that in the article at all; in fact, prestige is not mentioned at all besides that one lede sentence. I reiterate that it's failed WP:UNDUE and WP:SYNTH. This has become another textbook case of the WP:BOOSTERISM we've all been fighting against — Yale shouldn't get a pass. GuardianH (talk) 04:28, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
being directly supported by high-quality sources (WP:V, WP:RS, WP:SYNTH). Under WP:RSP, Britannica has no consensus for being a reliable source and fails this criterion. It shouldn't be used to support the statement. GuardianH (talk) 04:38, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply