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Category talk:Muslim apologists

This category was nominated for merging on 11 August 2020. The result of the discussion was not merged.

This category was nominated for deletion on 15 December 2010. The result of the discussion was keep.

This category was nominated for deletion on 22 August 2015. The result of the discussion was keep.

This category was nominated for deletion on 1 June 2020. The result of the discussion was No action.

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What is a Muslim apologist how can you have a cat without even knowing what it means?--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 18:30, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Highly subjective term which could be used for anyone who advocates Islam using rational explanations. It also sounds pretty negative.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 20:05, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I saw this discussion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_June_1#Category:Muslim_apologists. Timtempleton and Carlossuarez46, should this along with sibling categories be listed again for deletion as Marcocapelle suggested? Both of you seem to have agreed that all should go.VR _talk 12:37, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Vice regent: agreed - it seems to be a loaded category. Muslims have nothing to apologize for, any more than followers of any other religions. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:54, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Would you like to nominate all such categories for deletion? I'd do it except I've not done this before.VR _talk 15:55, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Timtempleton I saw this edit. That link you added (Apologetics#Islam) refers to Islamic apologetics, where Islamic doctrines and theology is being defended, and Islam is being promoted as the true religion. It is analogous to Christian apologetics. Hence most people in this category are also Islamic missionaries of sorts, like [Zakir Naik]] and Ahmed Deedat.

But now we have a debate here (Talk:John_Esposito#Incorrect_removal_of_Category:Muslim_apologists) on whether Esposito is an apologist. Esposito is not an Islamic missionary and is not defending Islam as the true religion. However, he still defends Islam and the Muslim world in a political way. There are tonnes of scholars who have done that, including Edward Said, Reza Aslan etc. Should he be in the same category as the missionary apologists above? VR _talk 02:49, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also pinging @Thincat: @Drmies: @Johnpacklambert: @Peterkingiron: who made comments over what this category constitutes at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_August_22#Category:Muslim_apologists.VR _talk 02:52, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vice regent For once I kind of agree with you. I thought something similar when I saw this category. In my opinion who defend the Islamic religion should be categorized as "Islam apologist" (new Wikipedia category), while who defend Muslims, as humans that happen to have a particular religion, should be categorized as "Muslim apologist". Grufo (talk) 03:02, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Adding to this cleanup, as an FYI, I proposed merging and renaming these as Apologetics versus Apologists. Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_August_11#Category:Religious_apologists. I saw adding Apologetics#Islam to the lead for the Apologist category as a compromise. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:00, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]