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Talk:AFAB queen

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Rename article to Faux Queen

[edit]

This article, as even the one source referenced, should be renamed to Faux Queen. Benjiboi 23:18, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Done. Bio queen is now a redirect to faux queen. Oh, and I've removed the transwiki tag from this talk page because it hasn't been transwikied under the new name and doesn't appear to be there under the old one either (probably deleted from wikitionary). --AliceJMarkham 00:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

thank you! Benjiboi 00:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know faux queens really got a huge boost and exposure with the San Francisco Faux Queen pageants but women parodying female drag didn't start there. I know Deena Davenport and Connie Champagne are role models for many. Any other faux's out there, and any other cities have faux queen events? Benjiboi 08:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We need to remove her picture from this page. She's a musician, not a female female impersonator. I spent 15 minutes googling her name and faux queen and this wikipedia was the only instance I found of the two together

FreddyPickle (talk) 19:45, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, she's flamboyant and all but if she doesn't self=identify as a drag queen then likely she shouldn't be a part of the article. -- Banjeboi 23:45, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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• http://www.newnownext.com/michelle-visage-bisexual-drag-queen-guardian/03/2020/

---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:57, 30 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Faux queen is generally outdated and widely considered offensive. "Female queen" or "female drag queen" is more commonly seen in news articles, reference books and in use by performers. While "faux queen" needs to redirect here (as it's used in some older pageants and in historical literature), this article should be titled with a more common term.

The article had also not been updated in over a decade; I added information on the more recent news around AFAB/female queens in media and a section on discrimination within the community. --PropterScientiam (talk) 01:39, 15 July 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by PropterScientiam (talk • contribs) 01:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some initial searches suggest that this is not supported by the majority of sources, but I'll have to look more in detail later. Mathglot (talk)

In most of the cited articles, the terms "bioqueen," "female queen" or "cisgender female drag queen" is used. This old edit also contradicts the current article "drag queen" which also states that faux queen is considered offensive. --PropterScientiam (talk) 14:47, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is still not addressed. Evidence for faux queen being offensive:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jul/10/workin-it-how-female-drag-queens-are-causing-a-scene

https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/article/female-drag-queen-real-life-story

This is a marginalized group being referred to by an outdated and widely offensive term and NEEDS to be corrected ASAP as there are currently several high profile AFAB/female queens in the news.

PropterScientiam (talk) 13:24, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article is full of the phrase "assigned female at birth", but that term includes trans men who are drag queens. But trans men performing as drag queens are not "faux queens", "female queens", nor "female female impersonators". They are men performing as women, i.e. male drag queens (who were also assigned female at birth - "AFAB" describes a past, not present state).

The term is completely out of place and makes the transphobic implication that trans people should be viewed as their assigned sex in drag context, which is even contradicted in the introduction itself, so I'm surprised nobody noticed yet. 2A00:1398:9:FB03:A52A:CD80:ACCA:A0F7 (talk) 13:17, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"AFAB drag queen" is the term used by trans men, cis women and nonbinary people who perform as drag queens. It is used because all 3 groups face the same challenges and discrimination within the community on the basis of their assigned sex at birth. The only reason to distinguish a drag queen according to their out of drag gender is to discuss discrimination against their gender or representation of it within drag, and discrimination against women queens (mostly trans women) is different than discrimination against AFAB queens.

Gottmik, for example, faces the same pushback and discrimination as Victoria Scone, despite Gottmik being a trans man, while Sasha Colby, a trans woman, does not.

In discussing a group discriminated against based on assigned sex at birth, it is appropriate to reference their assigned sex. PropterScientiam (talk) 04:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]