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Taxonomy: For all marine species, Project Gastropods uses the taxonomy in the online database WoRMS. When starting a new article, do not use sources of taxonomic information that predate the 2017 revision for all gastropod groups ("Revised Classification, Nomenclator and Typification of Gastropod and Monoplacophoran Families" by Philippe Bouchet & Jean-Pierre Rocroi, Bernhard Hausdorf, Andrzej Kaim, Yasunori Kano, Alexander Nützel, Pavel Parkhaev, Michael Schrödl and Ellen E. Strong in Malacologia, 2017, 61(1–2): 1–526.) (can be dowloaded at Researchgate.net), substituting the previous classification of 2005 Taxonomy of the Gastropoda (Bouchet & Rocroi, 2005). If you need help with any aspect of an article, please leave a note at the Project talk page.
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I've placed a contradiction tag on these two pages thanks to the conflicting information regarding the largest mollusk in north america. It seems clear the Conch is smaller, and that they are both mollusks, but I'll leave the solution to someone who knows more for sure to make the needed corrections.
Corpus juris02:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The rules for GA reviews are stated at Good Article criteria. I usually do reviews in the order: coverage; structure; detailed walk-through of sections (refs, prose, other details); images (after the text content is stable); lead (ditto). Feel free to respond to my comments under each one, and please sign each response, so that it's clear who said what.
When an issue is resolved, I'll mark it with Done. If I think an issue remains unresolved after responses / changes by the editor(s), I'll mark it Not done. Occasionally I decide one of my comments is off-target, and strike it out --
BTW I've occasionally had edit conflicts in review pages, and to reduce this risk I'd be grateful if you'd let me know when you're most active (UTC), so I can avoid these times. --Philcha (talk) 14:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just wanted to say that I am happy to help out with the fixing up of this article if there is stuff that I can do. I don't really have access to the print literature right now though. Best, Invertzoo (talk) 13:04, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Overall it looks fragmented to me. The article structures for gastropods that have achieved GA status may help as guides - Kerry slug (by a reviewer whose work I know) and Love dart (don't know this reviewer but looks competent). My own zoology articles are usually at phylum and sub-phylum level, and in these I typically have a different structure, as I need to make room for evolutionary history (see e.g. Arthropod) as well as a more detailed accouint of basic zoology:
Description, with sub-sections on: appearance; anatomy; feeding and excretion; respiration and circulation; reproduction and lifecycle; nerveous senses and senses. I may vary the order, e.g. in some cases a sub-section I usually place later may help provide background for a sub-section I usually place earlier.
Ecology, with sub-sections on: habitat and range; "prey", predators, parasites, etc.; interaction with humans (e.g. as food or parasites); threats and conservation
Bits of material about threats and conversation all over the place. These should be consolidated and repetitions ratioalised. --Philcha (talk) 14:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have reorganized most of the Conservation/Threats section, removing any conservation/threat related text that was outside of it, except of course for the Article Intro. I basically merged those sections and rewrote them, removing any redundancies I could find.--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 17:34, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done Revision of name. Linnaeus said Strombus, who coined Eustrombus and why? I note CITES uses Strombus, is this a a sign of controversy, or some other reason? -Philcha (talk) 14:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It happens to be that various subgenera within the Strombidae, including Estrombus, were elevated to genus level recently. Petuch (2004) and Petuch and Roberts (2007) recombined Strombus gigasasEustrombus gigas. I can't say why, at least not now, though I can check this out later. As I was looking for more information, I also discovered that Landau et al. 2008 recombined E. gigas within a recently described genus, as Lobatus gigas. It's rather confusing to be honest! Either way, Malacolog still uses Eustrombus gigas, so we might stick to that nomenclature for a while. I will create a section to explain that confusing taxonomy.--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 16:13, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Do you hate it when that happens? Something similar happened to me recently. The textbook I use as a basic ref for zoology articles notes that gastropod taxonomy is being redeveloped with a wrecking ball. It would being prudent to have 3-4 good sources that support oneof the options and use that - and outline the alternatives. Sheesh! --Philcha (talk) 18:29, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I was able to get those papers (Landau 2008, Petuch 2004), and some other recent ones discussing this subject, and also got some info from other specialists. I'll update this info in the article ASAP. It seems that in fact, the currently most accepted taxon is Lobatus gigas. Would a move be be harmful to this article, regarding the GA review process?--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 00:53, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, bloody hell! You know the research, so will have to judge whether e.g. the name Lobatus gigas is a solid consensus or a bare majority. I know of other areas of zoology where there naming issues (e.g. in additional [1], Annelida has absorbed a few other previously-phyla), and we can't leave these under quarantine for years. If the article passes as GA (hopefully!), it should be listed under Lobatus gigasatWP:GA. While the review is open I'd expect WP:GAN should have the new name as well, but am unaware of any WP procedures on this - I'll check. --Philcha (talk) 07:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure you'd want cladogram(s) in a species article, because then you'd want to include the same cladogram(s) in articles about closely-related species. Then if a an improved analysis appeared you'd update all the copies of the cladogram(s). Etc. If there are cladograms that are well enough suported, I'd must them up to a higher-level article, e.g. the family. --Philcha (talk) 08:11, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Kronenberg's note to you mentions various taxonomies, none of which mentions Eustrombus. Re the choice between the alternative genus names, I'll leave that you. You'd need decent evidence that L. (or whatever) is current consensus. I also suggest you don't want to delve into details here. --Philcha (talk) 08:11, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Answering in order. First: Yes, this is the article he mentions (Latiolais, 2006). Yet, this is more complete than previous analysis, at least those I know. In any case, it corroborates some further presented hypothesis (In 2007-2008 works by other researchers). So, about the cladogram... I believe it is not necessary to include the whole hypothesis presented by Latiolais; We could in fact represent the Eastern Pacific/Atlantic clade Tricornis, which comprises S. gigas, S. gallus, S. costatus, S. raninus, S. peruvianus and S. galeatus and the immediate external group (S. latus). Some of those species already have articles in enWikipedia, and I would gladly create the other if needed. Second: Professor Kronenberg did in fact mentioned Eustrombus, as one of our options is to consider it at genus level. So it's our choice in the end. Third: There is no doubt at all that x. gigas is a species (no cryptics). Of that I think I am sure (at least)! --Daniel Cavallari (talk) 13:59, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think we should stay with E. gigas for the moment. If L. gigas turns out to be a valid name in the future, then we shall change it. Not to worry about right now!--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 20:55, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can seen "queen conch" appears in lead but not in main text. I'd explain in "Taxonomy", citing Leal (2002) p. 139. --Philcha (talk) 12:52, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done Leal (2002) simply gives the name Strombus gigas in a list with no futher information about the species. I'm not sure it's worth using. --Philcha (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"There is a stromboid notch on the outer lip. In life the left eyestalk protrudes through this notch."
Though this (the notch) is a common feature of most Strombidae, which can even be seen in some of the article pictures (the protruding eye can be seen in some of the pictures also). Correct me if I am wrong, but a solution could be to better describe its appearance and location, so any reader can verify it in the article pictures themselves. Do you agree? If so, I can easily describe it.--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 21:30, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You'd also need to:
Identify which of the indents is the stromboid notch.
No citations for para "In contrast, the juvenile shells are a mottled brown and white ... The outer lip of an adult shell gradually increases its thickness with age." --Philcha (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Later, probably near the end of the review, we need to decide which pics go where. Having 2 pics in the taxobox pushes the taxobox well into the main text and causes layouts in the first half of the text. In general pics should be selected and placed to support text. --Philcha (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done "stromboid notch" is not a useful wikilink, as it links to the top of Strombidae rather than a specific section, and the relevant at Strombidae could be summarised here. This is also the first point at which the layout and image issues appear, as File:Eustrombus gigas.jpg would be very helpful here - in fact IMO File:Eustrombus gigas.jpg is one of the most images in the entire article. --Philcha (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A pair of labelled pics would make it easier for readers to understand the terms used in the shell description. When we resolve the layout and pic issues, I'll show you how to use {{Annotated image}}, a tool I've found very useful in anatomy. --Philcha (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done "environmental conditions (such as geographic location, nourishment and temperature) can greatly affect it" has 2 issues:
Done The source is a MSc thesis, and that is a grey area in WP:RS - no evidence that it was externally refereed (and passed). I also note that it was dated 1991. If this work was considered significant by malacologists, I'd expect to see analyses or at least citations in academic books or articles. --Philcha (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done "environmental conditions (such as geographic location, nourishment and temperature) can greatly affect it" is a bit of a tease. I can understand if you can't fully describe the variations in shells caused by conditions, but 1 or 2 examples would be helpful. --Philcha (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Please check every statement in the entire article has a citation from a good source - see WP:V. Then please say when this is done, and I'll continue the review. --Philcha (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, Philcha has been taken ill, and has asked for another reviewer to take over this. I am willing to do so, although other reviewers may also be willing. I've made some minor fixes and copyedits (please fix or revert these if I have made any mistakes or you disagree with them).
On my read through, the main outstanding issue I noticed is the section on threats and conservation, especially the first paragraph. I am wholly supportive of the good intent to draw attention to a conservation issue, but please remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and should not express opinions or make predictions without attribution to reliable sources. We should inform the reader about the facts, and present a balance of opinions in reliable sources, then trust the reader to come to their own conclusions. The language in the entirely uncited first paragraph is loose and opinionated ("Since these days... it is hard to enforce rules... If this continues unabated... will very likely be unable to recover.").
Hi Geometry guy, Thanks so much for taking over the review; I am sorry to hear that Philcha is not feeling well. I just did now a clean up of that problematic paragraph to try to remove a lot of the POV. Perhaps we can find some sources to support what is left of the paragraph as needed. I am happy to try to do other clean up as necessary although I am not as "well read" on this species as Daniel Cavallari is. Best, Invertzoo (talk) 14:33, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I've copyedited a bit, but may also have shifted the emphasis: feel free to correct. However, this paragraph does now need to be sourced, and the ultimate phrasing (vast, many, some, etc.) needs to come from sources. (Hopefully the paragraph is now easier to source.) Geometry guy21:40, 13 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've now started a review above. The main failings are WP:LEAD (the lead does not summarize the article) and uncited material (many of the tagged sentences require citations according to the GA criteria). Since there has been no activity in the last month, these are reasons to close the nomination and not list the article. Other minor issues include image density (there are rather many in the first part of the article) and focus/neutrality (there's quite a lot on conservation issues). I'll keep the review open for another couple of days in case there is renewed effort to fix the article. Geometry guy21:49, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Now closing. Apart from the sourcing, I'm not completely convinced by the balance of the article or the lead, so I can't list it as a GA at this time. Please renominate once the issues raised above are addressed. Geometry guy22:21, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- - - - - please add review comments /responses above this line - - - - -
If you want to start a new section of the Talk page while this review is still here, edit the whole page, i.e.use the "edit" link at the top of the page.
Hi, I am reviewing this article and will add comments below. I have no special knowledge of the subject material and will mostly be addressing prose and MoS concerns. Some copy editing I will do directly and you are free to revert anything I do.
I rewrote o the opening to reduce overlinking to common words and reword slightly.
Well it seems like ingenta connect has many issues! I have the papers here, that is true. I've tried to add external links for verifiability purposes, of course. Do you believe it would be necessary to remove those?--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 15:14, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed both broken links; Both references can be verified in ingenta connect for free. The sole problem is you can't redirect links to their page. Sad, but true! Anyway, problem solved.--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 13:50, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are too many headings leading to a cluttered look and that inhibit the flow of the prose. Too many short sections.
There is overlinking of wikilinks e.g. in the Distribution section, only unfamiliar places that an English reader would not be expected to know should be linking.
To solve the picture problem completely, I see only one reasonable solution. By removing the picture [2], which details the eye and sensory tentacle, we could move picture [3], which details the whole animal, to the right. In fact, picture [4] is a crop of picture [5], so it is not really completely necessary, I believe. What do you think?--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 17:50, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you mean, but I rather like that closeup of the eye stalk. It is one of the few pictures of the actual animal rather than the shell. There are a lot of shell pictures. Are they all necessary? Also, and this is probably a dumb question, but how much of the shell does the animal life in? All of it? Xtzou(Talk)18:21, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry, there is no such thing as a dumb question. Answering is my pleasure, specially regarding this specific topic! Well, the animal can actually retract its whole body to the inner chambers of its shell. Some gastropods can do this, and even seal the shell aperture completely using their operculum! This is not the case of E. gigas, however. So it may retract as a defense response, for example. While the animal is active (moving, feeding, and so on) the foot, snout and eyestalks will usually be exposed, while the visceral hump (which contains several internal organs and such) will always remain inside the shell, very well protected! As for the shell pictures, well... They are necessary from a taxonomic point of view. Shell morphology is very important in the identification process. Oh I was in a rush and had to leave just a while ago. I did some improvements in fluidity and reduced the number of paragraphs. Also, about the shell pictures, they are not mandatory... Is creating a gallery at the article's end an option?--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 20:23, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, a gallery is an option, AFAIK. Actually, you have managed to neaten up the pics, so they look good now. I will read through the prose.Xtzou(Talk)20:33, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Further comments
Is it possible for you to expand a little on the topics? What you have is very technical to us lay people, and it would help the article to have more text to carry the many images. Ideally, an image would not interrupt a header. And ideally, text would not be sandwiched between images.
For example, rather than just link to Commensals, could you have a brief explanation of the technical terms in the article? Your explanation above was very enlightening. Is there any way you could make the article convey some of the same explanatory flavor?
"Drawings of an adult and juvenile shell of Eustrombus gigas from Index Testarum Conchyliorum (1742) and Manual of Conchology (1885):" Here you show the drawings. Is there any way you could explain what the drawing show, not just for the general audience, but keeping in mind that many readers do not see images either because of handicaps or because they have disabled images in their browser.
I wish you would explain what the pictures of the shell are supposed to show under Shell description, even though I am a sighted person I cannot tell. There should be some description in the text regarding what the pictures show. Xtzou(Talk)00:04, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Gave it a more precise meaning. I hope my grammar is correct, I'm trying as hard as I can as a non-native speaker! Feel free to correct it, as you see fit.--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 00:26, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that you never describe the various adult shells. It doesn't matter which images are colored, but it matters what they show about the shells. Whether is is ventrical or dorsal, what are the descriminating features? Xtzou(Talk)00:28, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I see... Well, the paragraph below the picture gallery is not intended to be related to it whatsoever! If it is confusing that way, a paragraph reorganization can be arranged. So, in the picture pargraph, should I briefly list the distinctive characters which a reader would be able to notice in the pictures, such as "the tall spire, flared outer lip, are distinguishable in the adult specimen drawings" and so on? The overall adult shell morphology is actually described in the text preceeding the picture announcement, just after the header. --Daniel Cavallari (talk) 00:36, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, as I have not a clue what to look for. And if you could link the jargon words, that would be very helpful. The problem is, how does a person like me learn about shells etc., if the articles are over my head? Xtzou(Talk)00:41, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Reorganized the paragraphs, linked some technical terms, and wrote some guidance as to what look for in each picture. Would that be satisfactory? I tried to do so in a way that I mentioned the structures, so that even a handicaped or image-deactivated browser user would be able to know what is being depicted in the end.--Daniel Cavallari (talk) 02:33, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In section 6.4 "Interspecific Relationships", paragraph 2, it seems that "Chicoreus pomum" is given as the formal name for "apple murex". However, I checked out the references cited for the article, but could not find any mention of apple murex in the references. Does anyone have a source which can confirm this? Or even just professional knowledge which can confirm it?
I ask because the Chicoreus pomum wikipedia article makes no mention of apple murex. If these two things are related, that article needs to be modified to reflect the relationship between the two names. I am willing to make that modification, but I have no solid proof (other than section 6.4 of this Eustrombus gigas article) that the two are really related.
Also, if I have this all confused, and this (Eustrombus gigas) article does not mean to assert that there is a relationship between Chicoreus pomum and apple murex... then I hope someone can reword the apple murex sentence to make it clearer to non-experts like me who are interested. Thanks. Fallendarling (talk) 03:23, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hello there Fallendarling! Thank you for your feedback. It's a pleasure to know that you're interested in the article, for whatever reason. Now, to answer you. I'm a malacologist, not a specialist in the group, but yet I believe I can clarify this situation. First things first. In taxonomy there are scientific names we biologists designate as synonyms; They are called so because they are different names, and yet are used for a same taxon (in this case, a single species). The classification of organisms is an ongoing process. New names are proposed now and then, and sometimes species are transferred into new genera, and so on. It happens to be that Chicoreus pomum is the current accepted name for this species, and there are several synonyms for it. You may have heard about the "apple murex" as Murex pomum, for example. So Murex pomum and Chicoreus pomum are one and the same. You can check this out, and many other marine species at the World Register of Marine Species website. Now, on to the common name. The common name is indeed Apple murex, as you will be able to see in page 131 of Leal (2002), for example. Feel free to add this reference to the C. pomum article, if you wish to. Best wishes! --Daniel Cavallari (talk) 12:47, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Five views of a shell of queen conch, a species of large sea snail (reaching up to 35.2 cm (13.9 in) in length) native to the Caribbean Sea. It is herbivorous and lives mostly in seagrass beds. It serves as prey for many creatures, including humans, and the shells are used as decorative objects.Photo: H. Zell
Recently it seems that an IP address editor changed all of the US spelling in this article to British spelling... I don't know how well thought out these changes were. This species is a New World species and it seems not unreasonable that the text should be in American English, although you could argue that the Caribbean islands that used to be part of the British West Indies still use British spelling. Does anyone have an opinion on this? Invertzoo (talk) 22:01, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just wanted to comment that the animal doesn't really exist "out of the shell" unless you are doing a dissection, because the shell is part of the animal, in the same way that your skull is part of your head. A shelled gastropod is not like a hermit crab that can change shells and exists independently of the shell. Thanks, Invertzoo (talk) 15:06, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
23:24, 17 October 2015 (UTC)~
"In Andean prehistory, Aztecs used the shell as part of jewelry mosaics such as the double-headed serpent.[68] "
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Has anyone considered nomination for featured article?[edit]
A quick read over of this excellent article seems like it should be considered for featured article. Just a few ref fixes here and there. Has anyone considered this? Mattximus (talk) 15:06, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]