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"They abandoned the Vichy regime and started fighting against the Germans when they saw that Philippe Pétain was totally bending over to the Nazis and had no intent to stop collaboration."
"totally bending over"... there has got to be a better phrase Sadena 14:19, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
This article is seriously biased. Article says "Although many moderate right-wing people are anti-racist and oppose fascism, they are not considered "antifascists" as they do not organize themselves in specific groups dedicated to the antifascist struggle."
I just finished an article about one armed antifascist organization Local Lithuanian Detachment which was not socialist but was actively resisting fascists during the WW2. Lithuanian nonsocialist self government during the ww2 successfully sabotaged Fascist mobilization.
References are biased as well. "fascism will always be an element of capitalism, especially in times of economical crisis, and destruction of fascism is impossible without destruction of capitalism"? Come on - Fascists are socialists. "To be a socialist", said Goebbels, "is to submit the I to the thou; socialism is sacrificing the individual to the whole." Sigitas 17:45, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
To cite the odd right winger in the French resistance is to miss the point. the French far right by and large sided with Vichy, thus making them be seen as collaborationists by most French people. The Resistance was preodominantly leftist orientated, with the communists forming the largest single group. For them, the resistance was defined an antifascist, meaning not only anti-German, but also anti-Vichy and anti the far right Leagues, which they had fought against in the Popular Front era before the war.
I am not impressed with this article. It should be discussing the historical importance of anti-facism and not trying to define not very important modern antifa ideology. Jdorney 21:09, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Conservatives who consistently oppose fascism, whether as politicians or as philosophers or academics, deserve recognition. This implies that they must oppose fascism on principle (including moral grounds) and not simply support one form of fascism against another. Fascism may have the cult of tradition in common with conservatives -- but the tradition that a democratic conservatism endorses does not have despotism, terrorism, or genocide as constituent parts. In contrast, a French fascist who in 1941 preferred that France be a fascist tyranny (complete, perhaps, with the persecution of Jews) like Italy or Germany but not under the domination of either -- is no more an anti-fascist than some swindler who opposes swindles other than his own can be called "anti-swindling". Paul from Michigan (talk) 06:32, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
This article is heavily biased. Churchill was right and heavily anti-fascist, Charles de Gualle was right and was heavily anti-fascist, all center-right parties are heavily anti-fascist. The White Rose was not left (or right) and was heavily anti-fascist.
Churchill was only against Fascism when it came to defense of his country, other than that he was a believer in racial purity and other such notions: <a href="http://www.quora.com/Winston-Churchill/Was-Winston-Churchill-a-racist/"rel="nofollow">Link text</a> AnarchoGhost (talk) 15:38, 8 April 2014 (UTC) In american politics De gaulle would be on the left of bernie sanders, so much for being right wing, he had some traditionnal views on the structure of society but all the other areas (welfare, international policy, economic policy...) are where de gaulle held views from the far left (emancipation of people, anticapitalism, state companies, not engaging in nato...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.192.17.51 (talk) 00:25, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
Frist of all Nazis were not socialists they just had it in their names ask any Fascist they hate liberalism and communism. 2nd while most conservatives are anti facist Fascism is a rightwing movement just like Communism is one the left. However that doe's not mean that people on the right are all fascit or that people on the left are communist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.13.118.232 (talk) 21:30, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Fascism is left, right or center. Fascist Italy had a major left wing faction of syndicalists. Nazi Germany had a major socialists faction and a major social corporatist faction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.87.195.157 (talk) 17:38, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Article says: "In a broader sense of the term, anti-fascism as shared by many left-wing people also includes opposing homophobia, sexism, racism and the restriction of civil liberties" yet later article glorifies Soviet army as antifascist and attacks people who were fighting against Soviet imperialism and soviet totalitarism. Do you really think Soviets were not racist, did not restrict civil liberties or were not militarist? Sigitas 17:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Armia Krajowa wasn't socialist or anarchist. I would say it would be more correct to call "antifascists" all people and movements (socialists or not) opposing fascism, this would obviously exclude fascists themselves like that guy Henri d'Astier de la Vigerie.
The line that says that anti-fascists are mostly anarchists is ridiculous. This is only true to any degree in Spain during the first year of the civil war. The reality is that the most active and militant anti-fascists in the 30s and 40s were communists.
This is not to say that they respected democracy inherently, or that the Soviet Union was a democracy or anything like that, but the simple answer to the question, "who opposed fascism through force of arms and politically in the 30 and 40s"? is the communists. See Germany, Spain, France Italy, Yugoslavia and elsewhere for examples.
Maybe the modern antifa groups are predominantly anarchist, though I would suspect there are many different leftists in them, but when anti-fascism was a burning question, it was the communists that were to the forefront in it.
In fact, it has been argued that anti-fascist Popular Fronts o the 30s and 40s were basically means for communist infiltration of mass political movements, but that is another argument.
Jdorney 20:59, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree that it seems a bit broad to categorise antifascists as anarchists. I think that this arises from a definitional problem. The article needs to make clearer that there is a qualitative difference between "a member of the antifascist movement" and "someone who opposes fascism". Most mainstream political groups in all Western countries are opposed to fascism, but they could not all be categorised as antifascist. In the USA and the United Kingdom (where I live), it's true that there's no clear definition of "antifascist" as opposed to "someone who doesn't support fascism", but on my visits to Spain I've encountered a political movement, popular among students and other young people, that categorises itself as "antifascist". This movement is a leftist movement (in the broad sense) and many of its members have connections to socialist or left-wing political parties. As such, the article introduction needs to spell out the fact that there are two possible definitions of the word "antifascist".
If no one objects, I will rewrite parts of the article to reflect this distinction. Walton monarchist89 11:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Jdorney 14:01, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, good work. Jdorney 22:28, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
There is no categorical difference between "someone who opposes fascism" and an "anti-fascist". They are both anti-fascists. It is only then a question of how "extreme" or "active" an anti-fascist is. In the "United States" section, there seems to be confusion about this. The only anti-fascists discussed regarding the 2016-2017 anti-fascism movement were anarchists and rioters, which are only the most extreme and active examples of anti-fascists in the US in 2017. In fact, there are currently many millions of anti-fascists in the US, which I clarified in that section.
mjleone 19 March, 2017 —Preceding undated comment added 14:05, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Am I alone in thinking this section needs some serious work? Any volunteers? The information is important, but the sequencing is not right. --BobFromBrockley 15:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Much as I love most of those bands, this seems like a rather long list, including some pretty obscure bands. Wouldn't it be better to make it shorter and sharper? --BobFromBrockley 16:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Look...I like the Clash as much as the next guy, but including him in a list of anti-Fascists that includes Leone Ginzburg is an insult to a great hero and martyr. It also makes this entire enterprise seem very, very silly... Adam Holland 20:13, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
The categories "individuals" and "musicians" do not provide a clear, meaningful distinction. (By the way, can't individuals be musicians?) The TRUE distinction that I want to bring to the attention of the editors of this section separates, on the one hand, those who actually devoted their lives to anti-fascism, sometimes dying for their cause, and, on the other hand, those who made anti-fascist statements at one time or another. Whether or not they are an individual, a musician, or an individual musician, is irrelevant to this question. The criteria that should apply for inclusion are: 1) how important was the person to the anti-fascist movement? 2) how important was anti-fascism to the life and work of the person? I would weigh the first question to be more important than the second. As far as whether or not to categorize the list by profession or nationality, I tend to think that the latter is of greater importance for your purposes, but that really matters less to me than the merits of those listed.
I make this suggestion not to disparage your work, but to point out that there is significant room for improvement here. Adam Holland 22:02, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Is it just me or are the external links here a little arbitrary? At the moment we've got:
My preference would be to get rid of all of these, maybe keep the anarchist resistance one, and find better ones. What do folks think? BobFromBrockley 10:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
This issue has returned, as an anonymous editor (82.131.22.143) has put in lots of external links:
+ *Against unveiling monument to Nazi troops + *Remembering the Anarchist Resistance to fascism + *Anvers - Un skinhead proche du Vlaams Belang a tué + *Beating Fascism: Anarchist Anti-Fascism In Theory And Practice + *Topic Fascism/Anti-Fascism + *Interview from, Beating Fascism: Anarchist anti-fascism in theory and practice + *Archive for the 'Anti-fascism' Category + *‘Fascism or Revolution !’ Anarchism and Antifascism in France, 1933-39 + *Uno Laht (photograph) + *Estonian anti-German resistance movement 1941-1944
Some of these are good links; others seem far too marginal to me. I propose editing it down to the following only:
I'm deleting the link to a blog, the link to a picture and the link to a wikipedia mirror site now, and leaving the rest in case people think I'm being hasty. And I am removing the link to the AK book, but putting this in under references. BobFromBrockley 11:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I have edited the contribution by BobFromBrockley above (See history) Because the links that were in this section are now blocked by a Wikipedia spam filter. --Philip Baird Shearer 18:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
The following paragraphs were added by an editor, then removed by another for bad English, lack of citations, etc. Thought it would be worth putting here to see if any editors think any of this is usable after editing:
- Thus, antifascism as a distinct theory and practice is historically limited to the socialist movement, although with the emergence of new, alternative political movements (the Greens being only one of them), the antifascism tradition of the socialist movement may expands itself to other left-wing people. Although many moderate right-wing people are anti-racist and oppose fascism, they are not considered "antifascists" as they do not organize themselves in specific groups dedicated to the antifascist struggle.
- - While violent or militant anti-fascism does occur, the movement may also be non-violent; being an anti-fascist is not necessarily to "fight" fascism with violence, although violence did play an important role in the 1920s and the 1930s, when antifascists were confronted to aggressive far right leagues, such as the Action Française royalist movement in France, which dominated the Quartier latin students' neighborhood (although royalist, the Action Française counted members such as Georges Valois who would later found the Faisceau fascist movement, created on the model of the Italian Fascio). In Italy in the 1920s, antifascists had to struggle against the violent squadristi, while in Germany they were confronted to the Freikorps. The squadristi broke the general strikes using violence, and the only way for the workers' movement to defend itself was physically. Thus, pre-World War II history explains why anti-fascism has been associated with violence. -
- However, many antifa activists consider today that violence is not justified, since fascists don't represent, in most countries, a massive physical threat. They argue that they should be fought intellectually. However, others disagree, and point out that skinheads pose a real threat in some neighborhoods, and have sometimes killed people. These antifascists claim that self-defense is necessary, because they observe that the state doesn't defends equally the population of specific neighborhoods. In Russia, some neo-nazis have recently committed various hate crimes against foreigners. Some antifascists groups are: Anti-Racist Action, a US group created in the 1990s; the Swedish Antifascistisk aktion founded in 1993; the UK Anti-Nazi League, set up in 1977, and which merged in 2002 with Unite Against Fascism, whose chairman is London's mayor Ken Livingstone; the UK Anti-Fascist Action, which fights the National Front and the British National Party (BNP); Anarcho-skinheads (one must recall that the original skinhead movement was antifascist, and only latter became in majority neonazi).
BobFromBrockley 12:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Antifa should not be redirected toward militant anti-fascism, as not all antifa groups are militant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.135.253.17 (talk) 15:07, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Is there any logos or symbols that represent the anti-fascist movement, especially ones that are in the public domain? Thank you. Chamaoloan (talk) 03:44, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
The flag of the International Brigades who fought in the Spanish Civil War used a three-pointed red star. The organization called Antifaschistische Aktion uses an emblem with a red flag and a black flag flying side by side in a black circle with the name of the organization on it. Commissarusa (talk) 01:43, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
The image Image:WhiteRose.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
The following images also have this problem:
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --04:12, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
I suggest that Liberal anti-fascism and Militant anti-fascism be merged into Anti-fascism. After all the uncited opinions are deleted, there is not enough content to justify three separate articles, especially since some of the remaining content repeats what the other articles say.Spylab (talk) 16:44, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I went ahead with the merge because nobody spoke up against it, and because it just makes sense, considering there wasn't really enough referenced content to support three separate articles.Spylab (talk) 23:08, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Agree with the merge. Speaking of "militant" anti-fascism, and similar derogatory labels, is revisionist propaganda. I doubt there is any academic source supporting such trash.--Sum (talk) 09:35, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
history: [2], see Luce d'Eramo
This article makes such a lot of broad generalisations that it is difficult to know where to start:
The members of the German resistance which attempted to kill Hitler in 1944 used violent methods -- so all those strung up after the failed putsch could not have been right wing traditionalists but must have been in the main "supporters of class struggle".
Such statements as the above would suggest that the operatives of SOE and OSS "supporters of class struggle, and view fascism as an anti-working class political system.", because they could not have been supporters of liberal governments which believed in democratic ideals as they were not "nonviolent". --PBS (talk) 20:17, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
The section on the UK is totally misleading. If there is such a thing as ani-fascist organisations in the UK it is the major political parties and the vast majority of the electorate, is not the very small fringe groups which are mentioned. --PBS (talk) 20:23, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
I just removed the following, which it seems to me is over-generalised, repeats some things already said, is unencylopedic, and links to a blog:
== Connections with anarchism == Anti-fascism is also the opposition to fascist ideology, organization, or government, on all levels. It has been historically associated with the anarchism movement, although many individuals who do not belong to this movement share anti-fascism ideas. However, the active struggle against fascism and many antifascist organizations are related to the socialist and anarchist movement. In the anarchist movement, anti-fascism always includes antimilitarism, since the two are considered intimately related. In a broader sense of the term, anti-fascism as shared by many left-wing people also includes opposing homophobia, sexism, racism and the restriction of civil liberties, for example during state of emergency. In the most broader sense, an anti-fascist is anyone who opposes fascism, and/or engages in anti-fascist direct action. The term antifa is a commonly used word for anti-fascist action.[1]
BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:32, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article discuss organisations like SAFKA, Nashi, and Nochnoy Dozor (pressure group) as well? They all consider themselves anti-fascists. —Zalktis (talk) 10:54, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
The discussion of anti-fascists in Britain during the 2000s only seems to mention violent anarchists--an omission that gives a negative, possibly non-NPOV, impression of anti-fascist activism. There isn't any mention activities by non-violent leftist groups, or more mainstream groups that include the centre-right and supporters of liberal democracy in general. Kingal86 (talk) 18:20, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
The distinction between "militant" and "liberal" antifascism is not supported by any scholar sources. Please add appropriate reliable sources before putting it into the article lead.--Sum (talk) 18:53, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Until those statements stay unreferenced, they have no place in the lead. --Sum (talk) 20:24, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
I do not understand the vociferousness with which Summer With Morons opposes these sections. I also disagree with the deletion of the liberal anti-fascism section, even though agree it needed citations. It made more sense when whole of liberal anti-fascism section was together, and move of second half of that para to Italy section removed referencing. The disputed stuff also looks a bit odd in the lede. I would argue for re-inserting the sentence "There are two broad positions within the anti-fascism movement: militant anti-fascism and liberal anti-fascism." before the disputed bit, restoring the stuff moved to the Italian section, putting it in a section called something like "Currents within anti-fascism", placing it after the lede, and leaving the disputed section tag in that section. BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:01, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Just because anti-fascism has roots in the communist movement does not mean that "only communists can be described as anti-fascists." That makes no sense. Am I not a wikipedia editor because wikipedia editing has roots in the early 2000s and I wasn't editing then?? If someone is anti-fascist, they are anti-fascist. If there are many liberals who are anti-fascists, this article should include discussions of liberal anti-fascists. Your view of what anti-fascism is doesn't fit with the reality that anti-fascism is incredibly widespread and mainstream in many countries today. mjleone 19 March, 2017 —Preceding undated comment added 14:25, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
This article requires a major cleanup. It is important to remember that "anti-fascism" doesn't simply mean opposition to fascism, but is an ideology of its own which is linked to communism/far-left politics. As the recognized Verfassungsschutzbericht of the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz puts it:
TYRXrus (talk) 22:41, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
The article should maybe mention that anti-fascism often involves anticlericalism, because of the clergy's presumed association with authoritarian regimes. Anti-fascism also has a reputation of being rather atheistic and anarchistic on a more philosophical level, something that could perhaps be noted if appropriate sources can be found. ADM (talk) 13:41, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
... opposition to fascism can entail co-operation with clergy who themselves oppose fascist ideologies. The connection of religion to fascism is always ambiguous; some religious authorities foster fascism as a defense of tradition and national identity against anti-clerical ideas of Communists and other revolutionary socialists; some may find fascism abominable for its support of inequality, terrorism, and amorality. --Pbrower2a (talk) 01:07, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
How can 'violence against fascists' by 'militant anti-fascists' be "anti-fascism". Political violence is after all a key tenant of fascist movements. Prehaps the article needs to add the words "self-described anti-fascists" to make this point a bit clearer.
~~Nathan, New Zealand~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.100.211.178 (talk) 09:44, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
All movements can use violence,logicically, it doesn't make them idealogicaly fascist. Another way to put is is Fascist movements use violence, but not all movements that use violence are fascists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnarchoGhost (talk • contribs) 15:25, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
This is a propagandist page. 2 years ago it was stated that Antifa use violence but speak about world peace. Why is that cut off? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Razvan Ursu (talk • contribs) 10:56, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
The lead should not contain information taken from sources that need to be attributed in-line, due to their potentially controversial character. Furthermore, there should not be any references in the lead at all, as the lead should consist of a short introduction and a summary, which is based on content that is already included in the body of the article. The second paragraph of the lead section should therefore be moved to a separate section of the body of the article. Cs32en Talk to me 15:29, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
The term "Premature anti-fascism" appears to be a myth, or something the members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade applied to themselves. As such at the very least the phrase "a term that was used" should be clarified as to who was using it, directed against whom, with supporting evidence. See http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=22560 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.131.3.116 (talk) 16:41, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
The bullshit about "militant anti-fascism" comes from ridicule sources, clearly it should not be in the lead.--Sum (talk) 16:55, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Well, of course, earlier versions did have references discussing or defining liberal anti-fascism, although I accept the ones for militant anti-fascism required work. I have resurrected the old pages on these at my userpage, which I will start going through and referencing rigorously, and then you can see if you think any of these references are good enough.BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:01, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
Franco wasn't a fascist, so calling his enemies "anti-fascist" isn't precise.Xx236 (talk) 08:33, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Sorry to resurrect an old debate, but can anyone look at these sandbox pages, and tell me what's wrong with them? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bobfrombrockley/Liberal_anti-fascism and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bobfrombrockley/Militant_anti-fascism ThanksBobFromBrockley (talk) 11:52, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
On April 16, 2011, an anon inserted "commonly found on the left of the political spectrum" into the introduction of the article without including a source. On July 22, 2011, Bobfrombrockley removed "commonly found" so that it read, "[I]t refers to individuals and groups on the left of the political spectrum, […]." In effect, Bobfrombrockley changed it from "commonly found" on the Left to only being on the Left. This is how the article is as of writing. Bobfrombrockley has been open about being a Marxist since December 2006, and he still displays the Marxist userbox proudly on his userpage to this very day. Perhaps some of Bobfrombrockley's personal biases crept into the article.
The German resistance article mentions conservative resistance to the Nazis. Even the introduction of our Fascism article admits that it's difficult to label Fascist as solely right-wing or Left-wing.
I believe that "[I]t refers to individuals and groups on the left of the political spectrum, that are dedicated to fighting fascism," should be replaced with "[I]t refers to individuals and groups that are dedicated to fighting fascism," which is uncontroversial and indisputable. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 18:14, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Thank you Michael. I completely agree with your uncontroversial definition of anti-fascism. The left bit I edited (and my edit was not mainly to get rid of the "commonly found" bit but lots of other superfluous stuff in the lede) refers specifically to the narrower word "antifa" not to "anti-fascism". BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:03, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The section on Estonia is full of Soviet propaganda. Many of the citations are to Soviet-era sources, which cannot be considered neutral. Adding NPOV tag. User332572385 (talk) 06:56, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Where is Stalin in this article? The fascist's nightmare due to the glorious win of war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vagr7 (talk • contribs) 09:48, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Stalinists are a big part of historical "antifascism" which is distinguishable from the role of Stalin himself. Devilishlyhandsome (talk) 01:04, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
if you find this image useful you can add it in this article or other relevant articles. Cogiati (talk) 20:57, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
The lede is not consistent with many comments which distinguish organized or sponbtaneous antifascist movements from individual viewpoints. The article also seems muddled on many levels: is it about antifascism in the 30s and 40s or the 90's or now? Shouldn't the focus be on self identified antifascist movements and organizations with a nod to individuals such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer?
There are vast areas of self-identified antifascist activism which is ommitted from, at least the US section. A lot of the back and forth in the punk and skinhead communities revolves around white power and people who oppose it or resist its proliferation. Anyone who has the time can probably get material from those sections and insert into the US (UK and Australia) sections. There is a lot of stuff out there which this article simply misses.Rather than have a completely misleading imppression I have made a brief reference in the text and would appreciate if people can help develope the section rather than state the obvious that citations are needed. They already were needed and tagged accordingly.Devilishlyhandsome (talk) 01:03, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
"The related term antifa, derived from the German word"..this seems kind of ridicuous since the word fascism is Romance language. Devilishlyhandsome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YlqnOeX4GeM Devilishlyhandsome (talk) 03:01, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
Antifascism can also be a self-description of action directed in opposition to forces which are putatively fascist but not universally regarded to be correctly described as fascist.
Examples: People calling Ronald Reagan a fascist etc...
Trotskyist and Maoist organizations against fascism mainly recruiting Stalin's United Front killing socialist and anarcist partisans in Spanish Republican movement Characterization of Obama with Hitler mustache etc. Opposition to opponents of "IslamoFascism" Any left of center opponent to any right of center tends to produce "antifascism"
Devilishlyhandsome (talk) 00:44, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
I think we should concur that a country by country listing of sparse paragraphs is not the regular way to approach a WP topic of this level of importance. There needs to be NPOV referenced text outlining the scholarly consensus on the topic more broadly. But perhaps iti s in the nature of the beast that fascisms define themselves country by country, as they are nationalists. Hence the trick is to avoid WP:OS while covering the topic. A nice challenge.Devilishlyhandsome (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 00:58, 6 July 2014 (UTC)