Please place new discussions at the bottom of the talk page. |
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Black cat article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies |
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"Another possible theory as to how the plague spread so quickly is that by killing many of the cats (believed to be witches' familiars) during the witch hunts caused the rodent population to rise, and with them rose the probability of infection." Taken from an anon, 68.174.249.133, contribution from the Black Death, later reverted.
I've heard this theory, but don't have the materials on hand to substantiate it. Actually it was probably a social result of the ongoing waves of plague. People looked for scapegoats -- some reason why these horrible things were happening to them -- and often focused on older people who may have survived earlier rounds of the disease (and Jews, of course). The number of accusations of witchcraft increased, and measures became more draconian. These people's pets and livestock were often burned or hung along with them as "familiars." I also remember that it was about this time that the genetic mutation that results in black domestic cats emerged (I have no answer to those who might assert that black cats existed earlier). The sudden appearance of these "black imps of Satan" was mentioned in a couple of sources. This has led some social and cultural historian(s) to speculate about roundups of cats during the plague, the death of cats with heretics, and the source of medieval superstitions about black cats. An interesting bit of information, but not for the article unless verification can be found. WBardwin 21:40, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I don't agree, in my part of the world (Middle East) blacks cats don't carry the usual malicious meanins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.101.33.224 (talk • contribs) 16:54, June 26, 2005
I don't agree either.They do not equal evil. They are one of God's creations and they shouldn't be judged by the way they look. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.25.220.148 (talk) 06:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC) File:Http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff385/DiamondPotter/images-22-1.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.240.222.12 (talk) 18:45, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Much of this section seems to have come from a spurious Wiccan book, which often rely far to much on Margaret Murray. Needs a look. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.173.6.74 (talk • contribs) 08:15, January 24, 2006
I live in Britain, and here black cats are considered to be good luck. I know for a fact they were originaly so, and had their reputation changed by the church. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndyB62 (talk • contribs) 14:03, June 3, 2006
i live in britain and ive never heard that they bring good luck. ive been told its bad luck for them to cross your path. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.217.225.60 (talk) 07:50, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I was born and live in England and black cats crossing path = good. Don't get confused or mislead by US culture coming over :-) 84.66.14.199 (talk) 21:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"This association with witches possibly stems from pre-Christian Europe when witches weren't considered evil. In fact it was the church, who considered them unholy and pagan, who altered their reputation."
Seems a bit far-fetched. Someone should confirm that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.244.216.110 (talk • contribs) 07:00, August 31, 2006
Actualy, wait, I just reread it and I guess it might make some sense. Still, check it out —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.244.216.110 (talk • contribs) 07:02, August 31, 2006
The Church hasn't claimed an issue with cats, of any color, or considered any animals of God's to be "unholy and pagan". The association with cats and the Church refers to the idea that the devil could transform into a cat, or any small creature such as a hare or rodent. Cats, along with the other small animals, were then pursecuted by the Church and deemed evil because of their connection with the devil.Garig (talk) 05:27, 24 April 2008 (UTC)garig[reply]
I believe that black cats are good luck. I live here in America and I own a black cat myself. She's very loving and she actually protects us from danger. How come black cats have to be bad luck? Why can't it be orange cats or white cats? Black cats are just like any other cats in this world.
I have a black cat too. He is super spiritual and extremely lucky. They are not evil, that's just something that people who are ignorant ABOUT black cats say. I also believe that ALL cats but black cats have a stronger and more direct connection to the spiritual realm, being half in - half out, or a portal, direct pathway or opened doorway to the other side. CrazyCatLady1980 (talk) 21:21, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm originally from the Chicago area, a Cubs fan for years and never heard anything about a "black cat curse". A black cat did wander into (or possibly deposited onto the field) at Shea Stadium in 1969-- I have no idea how Ron Santo felt about cats of any coat color then or now. The『Cubs' spotty record/chttp://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/button_headline.png Level 2 headlineurse』is the Billy Goat Curse of the 1945 World Series. Check out the Billy Goat article for more baseball curse legends, it's fun reading. Jaguara (pwned by cats) 13:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This article seems to contradict itself. Throughout the article cats are refered to as being bad luck, however the caption under the main picture states that black cats are good luck. I am sure that stereotypes involving black cats differ between cultures, so perhaps we should simply state that some people consider them bad and that some people consider them good? - Ridge Racer 23:43, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"In places which weren't affected particularly by witch hunts, they retained their status as good luck, and are still considered as such in Japan, Britain and Egypt."
Japan is most certainly wrong. My friend who lives in Japan has confirmed this is wrong, and furthermore this has no citation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.178.39.70 (talk) 14:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]
I agree with the above statement, Japan has always portrayed black cat as bad luck, and it contradicts this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_superstitions — Preceding unsigned comment added by LittleWhisky (talk • contribs) 15:31, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Cats in general are seen as good luck in the middle east because many of the prophets had a liking for cats. 4.238.142.188 14:18, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Black cats are also considered lucky in Australia. Eligius (talk) 00:13, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Text: "By the 17th Century, however, the cat began to be associated with witchcraft and its luck turned from good to bad in many areas around the world. The black cat was still usually seen as good luck; however, in the USA and parts of Europe (e.g. Spain), which saw witch hunts, the association with witches caused them to be considered as bad luck."
It is questionable to use the term USA with the British Colonies in North America in regards to the witch hunts prior to the Declaration of Independence and the American War of Independence. I wish someone to revise the above sentence to reflect that historically there was no United States of America (USA) in the 17th Century, but I'm not sure how to phrase it myself. I may use the phrase British Colonies in North America, but I'm not sure the witch trials were strictly in the British Colonies, as opposed to the Dutch, French or Spanish Colonies. If anyone has a solution to this dilemma please assist in correcting this egregious error.Galo1969X (talk) 12:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe『in part of the territory that is USA today and parts of Europe (e.g. Spain), which saw witch hunts …. 』 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.15.25.108 (talk) 00:33, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I deleted this statement because it is just a point of view, or maybe just a joke. It seems most unlikely to be any truer of black cats than any other colour, and needs a reference if it is to be taken seriously. An anonymous user put back this statement (but removed another piece of whimsy). Discuss here if there is any grounds for this. ProfDEH (talk) 07:14, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I have a black cat myself and she is quite a good cat. She's the best cat we've ever had! She is so cute! She watches over us like if she was our guardian angel! So I don't know why people are criticizing them when they are just like any other cat that roams around. I actually feel sorry for them because people are takeing them to a whole new level. So my advice to you is to give the Black cats a try and lay off the myths. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.25.220.148 (talk) 06:15, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is a reference to Basement Cat welcome here? -Tajik24 (talk) 05:13, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The addition of this section cleans up the See also section sufficiently. Are there reasons for removing any of the currently existing See also links? WikkanWitch (talk) 14:54, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The casting call photo has been on this article for nearly seven years. It was added with this edit on October 11, 2010. It was removed today with this edit. No edit summary was provided as to why this image was removed. Per Help:Edit summary: "It is good practice to fill in the edit summary field, or add to it in the case of section editing, as this helps others to understand the intention of your edit." Removing a long-standing image from an article certainly is something which should be explained. After a round of revision, the editor in question gave the rationale in this edit as "It's already on a few articles". How exactly is that an appropriate reason to remove this photo? Like the Industrial Workers logo and the Space Shuttle patch, I believe the casting call photo depicts the influence of black cats on the wider culture and is certainly of greater encyclopedic value than multiple photos which depict black cats surrounded by foliage.
Mtminchi08 (talk) 23:54, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to all. I'm the editor who uploaded the photo, long ago. It's one of my favorites ;-) --Pete Tillman (talk) 01:37, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've tried to concisely explain myself via the limited-character edit-comment system, but I felt the issue might be better served via discussion.
Although I do have admitted bias in keeping my image up ('cause he's my cat and I LOVE HIM SO MUCH) - I am committed to the notion that the higher resolution of my image better conveys the concept of what "rusting" is. In frank comparison, I feel that the earlier image featured could easily be misconstrued for a wholly brown-coated/mottled cat - whereas the contrast between black & rust in my photo is much more pronounced (despite the striped shadows, which I imagine most would readily observe as the perfect geometric shade of venetian blinds and/or largely unlike any natural feline markings).
I don't wanna step on any toes but I know the *shit* out of rusting and finally got a good pic of it. HeffaFRIEND (talk) 02:46, 2 December 2017 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by HeffaFRIEND (talk • contribs) 18:19, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure you guys should use c:File:Anarchist black cat.svg in this role, as I point out at c:File talk:Anarchist black cat.svg#Funny story… Jeblad (talk) 18:01, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Does this mean lower odds against adoption? Could stand to be reworded. — (scuse me while i stroke one of my little black friends) —Tamfang (talk) 04:34, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 October 2023 and 9 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mdefatta (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Bmitch18 (talk) 04:43, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As an example of "both the Gaels and Celtic Britons had traditions of feral and sometimes malevolent black cats." the example of Cath Paul is given. However, In "Pa gar yw y porthawr", the text noted, no mention is made of the cat being black. https://www.ancienttexts.org/library/celtic/ctexts/bbc31.html Also, there is no mention of the cat being black in the "three swineherds of Britain", pretty much the only other place it is mentioned in Welsh mythology. https://www.ancienttexts.org/library/celtic/ctexts/triads1.html#:~:text=Three%20Powerful%20Swineherds%20of%20the,Penndaran%20Dyfed%20his%20foster%2Dfather. This is something I have also had to edit in the Wikipedia edit for Cath Palug itself. I suggest removing both this example and the "and Celtic Britons" phrase unless this can be verified. 2A02:C7C:BCEB:3500:F473:617:3E6B:C68F (talk) 10:41, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]