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I reverted the edit stating that Butch was born in England, as he most certainly was not. His parents arrived (separately) in the US in the 1850s, when they were still children. You can find them listed among the handcart pioneer companies of the 1850s, and in the 1860 Utah census. They married in 1865 in Utah. I don't have time to fill in all the details at the moment, but have linked to several of the many, many historical websites that state these basic facts. 11 Arlington (talk) 05:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
addendum: added some sources for parents' arrival and marriage. 11 Arlington (talk) 18:00, 28 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed the long and somewhat confusing paragraph about Butch Cassidy's paternal ancestry going back three generations. While this is interesting stuff for us historians and genealogists, it seems to dwell unnecessarily on facts not directly related to the subject of the article--and may have caused the confusion of the contributor who incorrectly edited the article to say Robert Leroy Parker was born in England. (Probably confused him with his grandfather Robert Parker?) The fact that his GREAT-grandfather Thomas arrived in Utah 1867 has nothing to do with Butch Cassidy's birthplace or circumstances. I'm also not sure why it's important to detail grandfather Robert Parker's boyhood troubles with the law; again, interesting but not particularly relevant. We could give equal time to Butch's mother's family, tracing their Scottish origins and mentioning that his grandmother was a midwife and one great-grandfather worked as caretaker at a Scottish castle, but again, I don't think it's especially relevant to Butch Cassidy's own life. 11 Arlington (talk) 04:09, 1 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
who are u Who did the studies?-FZ 23:11, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Can someone do a piece on the Outlaw Trail? That would be interesting. I tried to put up a request but couldn't navigate my way to the proper category. Sorry, I'm new here. --YellowLeftHand 09:23, 12 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I feel that
should be re-written
for better flow, but id like to get at least one person who agrees with me
PAX --- 71.108.37.108 07:28, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Almost all the newspapers in the archives from 1900 through 1910 list Robert L. Parker as being his real name. stutzeyStutzey (talk)` —Preceding undated comment was added at 18:59, 5 October 2008 (UTC).[reply]
Is there any evidence supporting the claim that Butch Cassidy was really born William Butch Wagner? If nothing can be provided, the recent changes should be reverted. Justin
I work at a museum in Telluride, Colorado and a colleage of mine found a government document linking William Wagner and William Phillips working as teamsters when they were young from Kentucky to Oregon Territory. So if you have an ancestry.com account I can give you the link to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.99.1.65 (talk) 00:18, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you closley at the two pictures of the real Butch Cassidy, and of Robert Parker their faces don't match, even when you put a moustache over Robert Parker mug shot the faces still don't match.
Removed panel from the main article - it needs supporting references to be more than original research.
That's interesting because both of those photographs are known to be photographs of Robert Leroy Parker AKA Butch Cassidy. The one on the left is his mug shot taked at the Wyoming territorial prison in Rawlins, Wyoming and the second one is cropped from the famous portrait of the Wild Bunch taken in Fort Worth, Texas. They sure look like the same person to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senor Cuete (talk • contribs) 04:36, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Senor Cuete. Comparing still pictures, even of the same person, can be a very dicey business. I have photos of my own daughter, caught in such a way, from one occasion to the next, that you'd swear they were not the same person. Yet I took the pictures myself. (Valhalan (talk) 04:47, 11 February 2011 (UTC))[reply]
Those two images are patently the same person. Look at the ears - identical, as is the rest. 86.17.228.136 (talk) 19:35, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I believe there is a mechanism for freezing the content of an article, accessible to Wikipedia Administrators, I suppose. Any thoughts about getting this article frozen, to shut down the repeated anonymous deletion? Bertport 03:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If you check his user page, you will see that multiple people have written him about it. There's no sign that he's ever read his own user page. Bertport 01:13, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, some progress - he blanked again, but he switched to a new IP address to do it. The new IP address has not edited Wikipedia before. Depending on how inconvenient it is for him to change IP addresses, we might eventually get somewhere by blocking every IP address he uses, I suppose. In any case, it's pretty clear that he read his own user page. Bertport 13:59, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I believe there is some evidence that William T Phillips was Butch Cassidy ([1] for example). There are even several books on the subject. I'm not sure that the evidence is conclusive, but I wonder if it isn't disingenuous to say that "no evidence supports the claims". Perhaps we should change it to "some nonconclusive evidence supports the claims" (with a reference or external link to more info) or perhaps expand the discussion of the controversy? Adagio 22:03, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The name Robert LeRoy Parker needs to be reomoved from the article because on a DVD of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid it states that Butch Cassidy's real name is unknown. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gwag (talk • contribs) 01:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]
Yes it is documented as Robert Leroy Parker. I met a guy in Yuma who was from Southern Utah, and had hung out with a petty vandal named Parker. He was short and pudgy, resembled Charles Leroy a lot, and was always setting school fire alarms, etc, getting into minor trouble although he was Mormon; again, similarly to Cassidy.65.129.188.112 (talk) 05:00, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The paragraph commencing "Butch Cassidy was known to hide out..." has been deleted due to a literary standard inappropriate to the standards of Wikipedia. The paragraph contained subordinate clauses without a main clause and the subject's name was not Butch Cassidy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.112.184.25 (talk) 16:48, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not not sure what it means to say that Parker/Cassidy's big heist in South America would be worth $100,000 today, as that would mean that he stole only a few thousand (at most) in then contemporary dollar terms. Surely his heists in the States, which translate variously to anywhere from a few hundred thousand dollars to over a million dollars, are bigger heists? Has a zero or two been left off the total for his SA heist or did the poster not understand that the figures for the robberies in the States weren't adjusted for inflation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.99.243.245 (talk) 09:29, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Butch Cassidy's gang wasn't the Hole in the Wall gang, that was in the movie. His real gang was called the Wild Bunch.
The caption on the photo at the top of the article even says the Wild Bunch.
I think they changed the name of the gang for the movie because there was another movie called The Wild Bunch that was out around the same time. AnitaFritz (talk) 09:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What Caption? on Wiki? "The Wild Bunch" was released after "Butch Casidy and the Sundance Kid". : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wild_Bunch No it was informallty the Hole in the Wall gang. Popularly, by the press and Ned Buntline, the: "Wild Bunch". Possibly Parker did not even name them at all as only he was the only one constant in their episodes. Longabaugh, Curry, the others, were not always included in all robberies.65.129.188.112 (talk) 05:03, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Butch Cassidy's gang wasn't the Hole in the Wall gang, that was in the movie. His real gang was called the Wild Bunch.
The caption on the photo at the top of the article even says the Wild Bunch.
I think they changed the name of the gang for the movie because there was another movie called The Wild Bunch that was out around the same time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AnitaFritz (talk • contribs) 09:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What Caption? No it was Hole in the wall Gang. It is very possible that Parker did not name them anything; the press and Ned Buntline were responsible for calling them The Wild Bunch. Parker was the only constant in the robberies, not even Longabaugh (Sundance) was present at all of them. The "gang" varied. And the movie "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" was released before Peckinpah's "The Wild Bunch". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wild_Bunch 65.129.188.112 (talk) 05:24, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
After the lede, the next paragraph begins "The same trio..." but no trio has been named. Can someone fix this? Rick Norwood (talk) 12:05, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butch_Cassidy%27s_Wild_Bunch --85.64.157.213 (talk) 18:07, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not familier with wiki syntax, so I will let someone else do it. "Early life" has a sources thing that needs to be fixed up. This: {Sources - US Federal census, 1920, shows Maximilian Parker's family arrived in the USA in 1856; US census for 1860 shows the Parker family already in Beaver, Utah}24.20.13.202 (talk) 21:30, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Because the name of Butch Cassidy is far better known than whatever his birth name happens to be, Robert Leroy Parker or something else, I think we should remove the use of the Parker name throughout the narrative except in the beginning where reference is made to his birth name. There are many biographies and histories about Cassidy and his Wild Bunch which uses his alias as the name to be referred to throughout their books. There are other Wikipedia entries which used the alias rather than the birth name. One example would be Lucky Luciano who's birth name was Salvatore Lucania. Why shouldn't this wikipedia entry use the name of Butch Cassidy more prominently throughout the narrative? What do others think of this notion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.235.195.242 (talk) 13:38, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I will volunteer to make the change as discussed in the above paragraph. I hope no one will have a problem with this change.
"Maximillian Parker and Ann Campbell Gillies, English immigrants" with a name like that she would have been of Scottish descent and her Tyneside birthplace is a bit of a giveaway.Optymystic (talk) 19:02, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Maximilian emigrated to the United States in 1856 aged 11. Leaving Liverpool on the 23 March bound for Boston aboard the sailing vessel: Enoch Train. where he arrived on May 1st along with his parents Robert and Ann, sisters Ada & Martha and brother Arthur. So Butch's early life is bunkum.
Velpremus (talk) 12:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There is no text in that article that by the time he started going by something other than Robert Leroy Parker, that he in any way self-identified as Mormon, or held membership in the church. Is there any reliable sources to indicate that he at any point self-identified as Mormon, was ever baptized into the church &/or was ever excommunicated from it? Simply having Mormon parents is not enough evidence to claim that he was Mormon. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 20:11, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Parker was definitely Mormon by adult choice. Baptism at 8 is age of awareness. Whether his actions reflect sincerity is anyone's guess. He is factually recorded as not shooting anyone.65.129.188.112 (talk) 04:49, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Another Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluride,_Colorado) reads:
In June 1889, Butch Cassidy, before becoming associated with his gang, "the wild bunch", robbed the San Miguel Valley Bank in Telluride. This was his first major recorded crime. He exited the bank with $24,580, and later became famous as a bank robber.[9]
So is it $21,000 or $24,580?
Thanks, 71.139.163.243 (talk) 18:32, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Last shootout was 1925 in Eloy, Arizona. 65.129.188.112 (talk) 04:51, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Some well-meaning soul altered the date from 1901 to 1902 because he or she mistakenly thought that the section about other partners of Cassidy in late 1901 referred to Cassidy himself. This is where it would have been helpful if sources had been cited in the first place. There are four citations now, which is four more than the February 20, 1901 date was ever given. Citing to reliable and verifiable sources-- it ain't that difficult, folks. Mandsford 02:17, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"01:52, 28 June 2015 Glades2 (talk | contribs | block) . . (27,918 bytes) (0) . . (→1901: South America: Timeline was inconsistent with previous section (previous section ended in late 1901))"
https://www.amazon.com/Butch-Cassidy-Photographic-Finds-Century/dp/1475071396 Middle More Rider (talk) 11:51, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Incorrect and undocumented. Several documented photos exist of Parker and Longabaugh; these men aren't in the picture. Curry and Elzy Lay are. Remember, the fax machine got Butch and Sundance. It doesn't lie.65.129.188.112 (talk) 05:30, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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This is not documented in Wiki on movie "The Wild Bunch". This movie is not in any way shape or form or by any intention any resemblance to the Butch Cassidy's Hole in the Wall Gang, as they called themselves. Nor was the character PIke intended to resemble Butch Cassidy (Robert Leroy Parker.) It was about another bunch of anachronistic outlaws by Sam Peckinpah, similar to "Cable Hogue" with Jason Robards, and "Ride the High Country" with Randolph Scott.65.129.188.112 (talk) 04:57, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Parker's death needs be a question mark. There is much evidence, by his own family, that he wrote home faithfully every week until 1930. Also, that Longabaugh (Sundance) and Etta Place returned to the U.S. at least twice after running to South America.
To guess at: "1908" is to simply agree with the 1969 movie and is not referenced. So, make up that year simply because the Bolivian Army , in the movie, used a model '08 Maxim gun? That makes no sense. 65.129.188.112 (talk) 05:12, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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@Ohgoshhi: is engaging in a revert war concerning, of all things, the correct use of emigrate and immigrate. Here is the sentence: Ann Gillies was born and lived in Tyneside in northeast England before X-migrating to America. The correct word here is emigrate, because the family were moving out of England: e-, "out of." Here is another way to demonstrate: The family immigrated to the United States. They immigrated to America because they were moving into: im-, "in". This is not a style guide issue; this is a basic vocabulary problem. —Dilidor (talk) 19:40, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I saw on my paper "West cyclopedia" that Butch Cassidy real name was George LeRoy Parker.
On this page is written as Robert LeRoy Parker.
The source on this page was deleted, but it is archived in:
https://web.archive.org/web/20161231100446/https://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/res/Education_in_BLM/Learning_Landscapes/For_Kids/History_Mystery/hm1/alias.html
I found various pages referencing George LeRoy Parker as the real name:
https://tomrizzo.com/tag/george-leroy-parker/ (ExLibris Tom Rizzo "Last Stand at Bitter Creek")
http://www.annalsofcrime.com/03-01.htm (from an article of Jay Robert Nash)
https://www.pbs.org/weekendexplorer/utah/elkmeadows/elk_cassidy.htm (PBS)
http://www.applegate-project.org/tng/getperson.php?personID=I25400&tree=Main (a project to map ancestors)
https://collections.lib.utah.edu/details?id=430669 (University in Utah)
Other opting for Robert LeRoy Parker:
https://www.biography.com/crime-figure/butch-cassidy (Biography site)
http://webiographies.org/auc0000012/index.html (Biography site)
Finally only one source says it was born as Robert LeRoy Parker and changed is name to George Cassidy. o_O
https://time.com/5682980/butch-cassidy-sundance-kid-history/ (TIME writing about the movie "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid")
It looks to me that the older and "written on paper" references point to "George LeRoy Parker", while the newer to "Robert LeRoy Parker".
Anyone with a "solid" source?
Should we (Wikipedia) at least mention both? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.34.83.57 (talk) 22:38, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There are many books about Butch Cassidy. Wouldn't it improve the article to include a bibliography?
Anne N. Cephaly — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anne N. Cephaly (talk • contribs) 16:31, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So I was looking up in to internet and searched "Butch Cassidy". And I found two results of his time of death. One was 1908, Bolivia and One another was 1930's, ???. So what actually happened? ChangeMyNamePlease (talk) 01:44, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Try to search Sundance Kid on Wikipedia, it will come as 1908 alt. 1937, what time they actually died? ChangeMyNamePlease (talk) 01:46, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]