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Carabao is not a subspecies of water buffalo. Thus, the articles should be merged. Yes, carabao is the exact same thing as the water buffalo. This is the problem when you use different terms for the same thing. Myrnamyers (talk) 00:16, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Carabao is defined as synonymous to water buffalo by Merriam-Webster and Oxford ED. Philippine Carabao Act specifically use the term "Philippine carabao" instead of "carabao" only suggesting "carabao" is not specific enough to refer to the water buffalo in the Philippines. "Philippine carabao" (instead of "carabao") is also the preferred term used by Filipino scientists. I suggest either we merge this page with Water buffalo or move it to Philippine carabao. Tagaaplaya (talk) 21:43, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
According also to that article, the Carabao is a subspecie of the Water Buffalo. I think they are not the same thing and deserves a separate article.
-The word, Swamp buffalo or Water buffalo are commom names, commonly used and widely recognized throughout the world while Caraboa are known only in the Philippines as for buffalo with 48 chromosomes, therefore it should not be combined, however, more details about water buffalo should be added with its other features.
-this section deals with a specific part of the digestive tract of the swamp buffalo which serves as an important fermentation vat in providing fermentation end-products to the host buffaloes, it is therefor imperative to keep this part as a separate as new and more research information can be added.
-The swamp buffalo rumen ecology studies will essentially involve using multi-disciplinary field of knowledge including those of microbiology, nutritional biochemistry and digestive physiology, it is hence, remained separately.
From what I know, this procedure is done while the animal is still young. It is similar to ear piercing and doberman pinscher ear clipping, and after it has healed, does not cause discomfort to the animal. Nightvisiongoggles (talk) 21:39, 17 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
According to the 1970s tome "Filipino Heritage", the carabao was imported to the Philippines by Chinese traders during the Pre-Spanish era, so it's not a native animal contrary to popular belief. I wonder if someone can look this up and add it to the main article, since I can't find a good reference online.Nightvisiongoggles (talk) 21:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, I would not view ANY kind of government-endorsed/nationalistic literature made during the Marcos era as reputable sources. Remember the Tasaday hoax? A lot of books on the filipino culture during that period were blatantly propagandistic.
Secondly. Even if the domestic Swamp Buffalo had been imported from China, the Swamp Buffalo IS already endemic to Southeast Asia and Indochina. As are the Arni (Wild Water Buffalo, which incidentally, is considered to be of the same species), Anoas, and the Tamaraw.
Lastly, the definite *domestication* origin of the Carabao/Swamp Buffalo is unknown (note emphasis on domestication, domestication in one place does not mean it is native only there). All claims as to China being the original site are hypotheses originating from different studies on the hypothesis of independent domestication of the two subspecies of water buffalo. China being the counterpoint of the proposed domestication origin of the Riverine Water Buffalo in India. The locations themselves are unimportant, the study focused more on genetic differences of the two domesticated subspecies against the Wild Water Buffalo (which again is endemic to virtually the entire Asian continent and Europe in prehistoric times). It is just as likely that the Swamp Buffalo was domesticated in Southeast Asia or Indochina. As for the later assumption that fossils of domesticated Water Buffalo in China (which are actually a different extinct species B. mephistopheles) were ancestors of modern domesticated water buffalos, here are the results of genetic research into that, PDF linked.--A Step Into Oblivion (talk) 18:08, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Wild or domesticated: DNA analysis of ancient water buffalo remains from north China, Dongya Y. Yang, Li Liu, Xingcan Chen, Camilla F. Speller; Journal of Archaeological Science 35
Ancient DNA sequences have been successfully retrieved and analyzed from 13 of 24 water buffalo bone samples. The DNA sequences, when compared with other modern water buffalo DNA data, shed new light on ancient indigenous populations of water buffalo in China and their relationships to modern domesticated water buffalo in Asia.
Based on the DNA sequences recovered in this project, the indigenous water buffalo B. mephistophele from Shaanxi Province
displays no direct connection with modern domesticated water buffalo, failing to support the assumption that water buffalo were
first domesticated in China. Although DNA samples in this study were obtained from a limited geographic region, the data show that
these remains are from a wild buffalo species which was not closely related to the ancestral population of modern domesticated water
buffalo in China.
The results from our analysis have clearly demonstrated that ancient DNA provides a new window into the study of ancient wild
buffalo and the processes of buffalo domestication. It can be expected that DNA analysis of more ancient water buffalo remains
from other regions will provide a clearer picture of water buffalo domestication, and eventually resolve ongoing debates on the origins of domesticated water buffalo in Asia.
From the Water Buffalo article: The classification of the Water Buffalo is uncertain. Some authorities list a single species, Bubalus arnee with two subspecies, the River (B. arnee bubalis) and Swamp (B. arnee carabanesis) Water Buffaloes; others regard them as closely related but separate species. The Swamp Buffalo is primarily mostly found in the eastern half of Asia and has 48 chromosomes. The River Buffalo is mostly found in western half of Asia, and has 50 chromosomes. Fertile offspring occurs between the two. It does not readily hybridise with cattle which have 60 chromosomes.
Maybe they don't have to be merged but consider as a sub or closely related species and worth a separate article. But we could also place a 'See also' link. When I describe the carabao to Japanese here in English, I use the word water buffalo. How many chromosomes do carabaos have?--Jondel04:55, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Well, they have the same scientific name... The Carabao article says it's "Bubalus bubalis or sometimes bubalus carabanesis". The Water Buffalo article says water buffalo is sometimes divided into the two subspecies Bubalus bubalis and bubalus carabanesis. All the internet sources I've come up with so far ([1], [2], [3]) suggest they're just two terms for the same animal. Coffee10:24, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
So is the B.b. carabenesis biological classification an accepted fact or it is still diputed? Is it really considered a subspecies? similar the wolf and the domesticated dog. Jpogi (talk) 01:47, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The article states that this species is the "Bubalus bubalis" and exists only in the Philippines and Guam. But the article for "water buffalo" also states that it is Bubalus bubalis and exists all over Asia... Which is it?24.117.62.13 (talk) 19:49, 21 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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"Carabao" and "water buffalo" refer to the same thing. Heck the article even mentions Malaysia, and the term could in fact be attributed to the use of Malay in the Philippines. It was borrowed by English from Spanish which got it from Tagalog or another Philippine language in the 16th century. Myrnamyers (talk) 00:15, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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