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Talk:City Hall station (IRT Lexington Avenue Line)

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City Hall station (IRT Lexington Avenue Line) has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: August 23, 2022. (Reviewed version).

The route diagram template for this article can be found in Template:City Hall (IRT Lexington Avenue Line).

A fact from City Hall station (IRT Lexington Avenue Line) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 11 September 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that the City Hall station (pictured), intended to be the showpiece of New York City's subway system, has been closed since 1945? A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/City Hall station (IRT Lexington Avenue Line).

This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

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Regarding: As of 2006 passengers are allowed to remain on these trains as they go through the loop but may be asked by train crew members to leave at Brooklyn Bridge.
I can find no evidence of this online. In fact, I always thought it was mandatory to leave the train at this stop. Please help. CoolGuy 15:06, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is true, but can not verify it. Trains usually go around the loop and stop at Brooklyn Bridge before returning to the depot. Late-night passengers could stay on the train around the loop if they wanted to. Krashlandon (e) 23:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can verify this as true (you can stay on the train) after speaking on two seperate occasions with with Train Service Supervisors. I cannot provied written documentation as this came up both times in the course of a converstation. Metropod 04:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to http://www.travelettes.net/new-york-city%E2%80%99s-hidden-subway-station/ you can stay on the train. // Liftarn (talk)

When the station was open, it was an entrance only. Can this be verified? CoolGuy 20:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't really make any sense, almost every other station is built with an entrance and exit and City Hall itself appears to have two entry points built into it.

There's nothing suggested from the design that it was a 'one way' station Kingpin1055 22:25, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Click here for proof. --imdanumber1 02:36, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see that Brennan says that; I wouldn't exactly call it "proof". Who ever heard of a subway station from which you cannot exit? Marc Shepherd 02:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not terribly farfetched, seeing as how Brooklyn Bridge is basically right down the street, but it would be somewhat odd. More sources would be greatly helpful. Larry V (talk | contribs) 03:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While both stations appear to have been opened at the same time... it seems odd that City Hall would be an entrance only... it had stairwells for both an entrance and exit and it seems odd that a station designed as a 'jewel of the system' would be one-way. True, there's only one platform... I'd like to know the source of this one-way information as I haven't encountered such info on the sites I've visited... and I'm sure a site like Forgotten New York would have info like that if it were real.Kingpin1055 10:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone confirm that the subway station seen in the game is not in fact Brooklyn Bridge station? I managed to find some screen grabs of what appeared to be the station in question and it was obviously not the IRT platform. Kingpin1055 17:19, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not familiar with that game. Can you provide some links to your screenshots, maybe? --Larry V (talk | contribs) 17:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

'Ask and ye shall receive' :P Here you go: http://uk.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/thedarkness/screenindex.html (14th image on the page starting from the top). I realise the signs say 'Trinity Cemetary' and 'Lower East Side' but I don't know how accurate their depiction of the New York Subway is. Hence my scepticism that the City Hall IRT making an appearance.

Well, the sign I see on the column in the center of the image says "Canal St," so that immediately means it can't be City Hall. I could go into a whole other thing about why the station depicted most likely is not any subway station in the entire New York City Subway system, but why bother =) --Larry V (talk | contribs) 01:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, the important thing is that we know ;). At any rate it's something bares further investigation when things become available... it looks like the game is actually available but it's not easy to find.Kingpin1055 10:24, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I saw City Hall on Dec. 22nd. I stayed on the 6 and rode around. The station needs cleaning up, though. I wish I had a camera on me as well. --Imdanumber1 ( Talk | contribs) 17:22, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt you could get very good pics from a 6 train. But yeah, I've done that before (pretended I was sleeping at Brooklyn Bridge … hehe), and it's pretty cool. Surprisingly short platforms, too. Larry V (talk | contribs) 21:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Same thing I did. When did you last see it? I bet people were wondering, "What the heck is that kid doing on that train?" But what matters is I saw the station after two years of reading about it at nycsubway.org and here. It is in dire need of cleaning up, however. I've got to get a camera/camera phone. I'm gonna look on eBay and see if I can get a good deal. After that, I'm gonna do a little touring and take some photos. :) --Imdanumber1 ( Talk | contribs) 02:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Was this not featured in the 1990 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turles film? --Criticalthinker (talk) 06:08, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It does feature in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (film). 331dot (talk) 22:13, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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City Hall, notwithstanding its architectural grandeur, was never an important station. In its final year of use, it served only 600 passengers per day[13] [...] during its final year of operation, only had about 800 riders per day. [..][13][2][14]

So 600 or 800? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.247.71.216 (talk) 23:15, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1DDqfMm5PE

2021 New York City mayoral election

Single-issue candidate Rebecca Loudhouse promises that if elected mayor of New York, subway riders may ride the loop to see the City Hall station. Blue Rasberry (talk) 00:49, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cute, real cute. Especially since most NYers didn't even know about the station (well more know about it now). I wonder what made Seth's writers come up with this one.Allan (talk) 17:54, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In the article it mentioned the proximity of the Brooklyn Bridge station that prevented the lengthening the platform at City Hall, that is very true. But in doing the expansion to South Ferry and into Brooklyn the IRT may have created the situation for low ridership: The loop track brings a train to the uptown platform at Brooklyn Bridge. If someone boarding at City Hall wants to go south (Fulton St, Wall St, Bowling Green, South Ferry or Brooklyn) they have to go upstairs at Brooklyn Bridge and then go downstairs to the downtown platform for the next downtown train. On doing so they might miss a train or two.

By walking in the street from City Hall to the Brooklyn Bridge station (only a few minutes) they avoid all those extra stairs and possible missed downtown trains.

(Of course the opening of the BRT's City Hall station in 1918 did not help any).

I put this in Talk as I couldn't decide if it could go in the main article. I won't complain if someone can find a way to fit it in.

Allan (talk) 15:19, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This review is transcluded from Talk:City Hall station (IRT Lexington Avenue Line)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 08:29, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a(prose, spelling, and grammar): b(MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a(references): b(citations to reliable sources): c(OR): d(copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a(major aspects): b(focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a(images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b(appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Alt text and a small group of copy tweaks and this will be a GA. 7-day hold to Epicgenius. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 00:37, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Copy changes[edit]

History[edit]

• The subway plans were drawn up ... It called for a subway line Mismatch in number
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 12:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• during rush hours and East Side locals add comma
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 12:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• until 6 p.m., and Remove comma (C in S)
  • I am a bit confused about this. User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences indicates that you need a comma when the two parts can stand as two sentences, i.e. "The new line carried 27,000 passengers for free until 6 p.m. / Another 125,000 passengers paid to ride the subway in the six-hour period that followed." Epicgenius (talk) 12:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Epicgenius I misread the sentence! Disregard. Will pass. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:30, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• up to modern standards, and the fact Remove comma
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 12:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• By 2001, the NYCTA planned to temporarily reopen the station for the subway's 100th anniversary in 2004. The station was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 2004. For the subway's Centennial Celebration the same year some sameness in sentence endings; consider reflow
  • Fixed. Epicgenius (talk) 12:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• were abandoned and museum tours Add comma after "abandoned"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 12:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Layout[edit]

• the lair of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles add a "the"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 12:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Rafael Guastavino, and makes remove comma
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 12:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• After the City Hall station closed, the staircases were covered with slabs. After the station closed, Sentences have very similar starters.
  • Fixed. Epicgenius (talk) 12:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Other items[edit]

• References are archived.
• Wonderful PD and freely licensed images (thanks, Rhododendrites!). Alt text is needed on all of them.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 12:53, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Earwig will not load (502).
  • @Sammi Brie: Thanks for the review. I've addressed all of these issues now, except for one, which I am a bit confused about. Epicgenius (talk) 12:53, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result was: promotedbyTheleekycauldron (talk) 05:57, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The City Hall station

• ... that the City Hall station (pictured), intended as the showpiece of New York City's subway system, has been closed since 1945? Source: "Interborough Rapid Transit System, Underground Interior" (PDF). New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission. October 23, 1979; Jaffe, Eric (July 18, 2012). "New York's Lovely Abandoned Subway Station". The Atlantic Cities. The Atlantic.
  • ALT1: ... that although the City Hall station (pictured) was intended as the showpiece of New York City's subway system, city officials refused to allow a museum to open there? Source: Hu, Winnie (April 11, 2019). "Failing New York Subway? Not Always - Once There Were Chandeliers".
  • ALT2: ... that when New York City's City Hall station (pictured) opened, one critic compared its vaults to a mosque? Source: "Trip on a Handcar Through the Rapid Transit Subway". New-York Tribune. January 24, 1904.
  • ALT3: ... that New York City's City Hall station (pictured) may have been the model for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles' lair? Source: Hu, Winnie (April 11, 2019). "Failing New York Subway? Not Always - Once There Were Chandeliers".
  • ALT4: ... that sand from the City Hall station's (pictured) excavation was sold to builders who sought the material for its "good quality"? Source: "Subway Work Progress: What Has Been Done in the City Hall Park, at the Park Plaza and Other Points". New-York Tribune.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Assembly Rooms, Belfast ‎

Improved to Good Article status by Epicgenius (talk). Self-nominated at 14:49, 25 August 2022 (UTC).[reply]

• Interesting station, on exquisite sourcs, subscription sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. The image is licensed and tells more than 1000 words, but please add (pictured) to the original hook which I find most interesting, more unusual than the others. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:18, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Gerda Arendt: Thanks for the review. I typically don't add (pictured) to hooks because the image is optional, and the promoter could choose to add that text if the image is used. But I have added that text to all the hooks now. Epicgenius (talk) 14:57, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    original preferred --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:17, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The NY Transit Museum did not exist in 1965 so it could not propose using City Hall as a Museum. The NYTM opened in 1976 as the NY Transit Exhibit and eventually became a formal Museum.

Sounds good to me. However, the NYTM didn't reject the City Hall station in the 1970s - the rejection of the station came much later. – Epicgenius (talk) 23:06, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a civil engineer and I want to clarify some of the measurements used in the article. For the track's radius of curvature, the article cites a NYT article which says "about 150 feet". This figure is ok, but not precise enough to be used in further calcualtions. The engineering plan found here (and also uploaded as an image in the article) shows a more precise radius of 147.25 feet. Using this value, we get a smaller circumference of 925.20 feet.

Now onto the platform. The article mentions a platform length of 257 feet, but I cannot find a citation for that value in the article, nor could I find a reliable source to confirm that. The NYT article mentions a platform length of 240 feet, although I'm not sure where that value comes from. Using a high-res version of the engineering plans (linked above) I measured the outer edge of the platform in AutoCAD to have an arc length of 212 feet, and the inside of the platform with an arc length of about 228 feet.

I haven't made any changes to the article in this regard, but I would like to put fourth the fact that some changes need to be made to these measurements. If anyone has a reliable source on the platform length, then that would be a good place to start. –Dream out loud (talk) 08:52, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing this out @Dream out loud. I've removed the 257-foot figure as this is not sourced anywhere. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:12, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Epicgenius, I saw this (Wikipedia) article on the front page today, and it reminded me of this Post article from last week. The Post is not, of course, generally the best of sources, but perhaps there is something worth working in about the tours? --Usernameunique (talk) 01:25, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Usernameunique, thanks for the link. There's already some info about the tours in the History section (including the fact that tours of the station were suspended between 2020 and 2023). I think the only thing salvageable from the Post source is the fact that it sold 16 tickets this fall, which sold out in 20 minutes - but that might not be particularly worthy of encyclopedic mention. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:51, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]