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For a June 2005 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Diplom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SimonP (talk • contribs) 19:46, 18 June 2005 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This page has been transwikiedtoWiktionary. The article has content that is useful at Wiktionary. Therefore the article can be found at either hereorhere (logs 1 logs 2.) Note: This means that the article has been copied to the Wiktionary Transwiki namespace for evaluation and formatting. It does not mean that the article is in the Wiktionary main namespace, or that it has been removed from Wikipedia's. Furthermore, the Wiktionarians might delete the article from Wiktionary if they do not find it to be appropriate for the Wiktionary. Removing this tag will usually trigger CopyToWiktionaryBot to re-transwiki the entry. This article should have been removed from Category:Copy to Wiktionary and should not be re-added there. |
That's wrong, it wasn't transwikied. -- Amtiss, SNAFU ? 21:01, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Article needed a serious improvement to grammar. Also, comparing the Diplom to the Bachelors and Masters system is very difficult. This is the entire reasoning behind the Bologna Process. Article needed clarification on this issue, i.e. Bachelors degrees cannot be generalized as they vary from country to country in terms of years to attainment. To solve this discrepancy, the example of the U.S. (and the English-speaking world) was added to the chart in the article. Here the minimum requirement is four years. InfoAgent (contribs) 08:00, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In regards to reverts made by an anonymous IP concerning the Abitur, it really has no place in this article as it has nothing to do with university study or the "diplom." The chart in this article is meant to be a very rough comparison of university systems internationally. Furthermore, it should only include university study. The GPAs and SATs in the US are comparable to the German Abitur, so the inclusion of the Abitur is really irrelevant on the chart. Lastly, by no means can the Abitur be translated into two years of university study. This should really not become a revert war. InfoAgent (contribs) 05:36, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sacrumi, I thought I’d help you out since you are so confident in your “English skills” and give you a few pointers.
Your wrote in grammatically incorrect English:
You started with personal attacks against the IP. I pointed that out in my previous discussion. If you have problems understanding correct English - don't blame other ones for it. I remove now the American Bachelor because it is obvious that it is not comparable (at least not with people like you who are not able to research information). You may start with the American Bachelor a Master-program in Europe, but most likely you will have to do some undergraduate studies before you can apply for a Master (3 years specialized studies vs. 2 years in the US). Sacrumi 05:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
You should have written the following in proper English:
You are the one who began the personal attacks against the anonymous IP address. Don’t blame others if you can’t understand proper English. I am going to remove the US version of the Bachelors from the chart because the two degrees are not comparable. Students from the US can start a Masters program in Europe with only a Bachelors degree...(don’t understand the rest)
The latter is the correct version, which is understandable. In terms of content, what you are saying is, unfortunately, absolutely ridiculous. There is no way that you could start any Masters program in the US (or Europe, for that matter) without a Bachelors degree (i.e. the process follows: undergraduate and then graduate). Please don’t be so confident in your knowledge and “research abilities” if you really don’t have a good command of the English language and know little about the US education system because it really shows.
Finally, stop reverting the "diplom" article and being a Troll. Instead, try to make some valuable contributions to English Wikipedia. So far you have only taken hostage of this article, you have removed credible information, and have not even provided citations (or any evidence) to support your revisions.
My advice: stick to the German Wikipedia. Sincerely InfoAgent 16:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Although it is out of scope of the article, because the article is just a comparison of the old degrees and new degrees in Germany: http://germany.usembassy.gov/germany/exchanges/study.html Sacrumi 23:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Common Classification of German Students into the US System
Graduate/Master's/Professional
Your version of the article is definitely wrong and your source doesn't proof your point. In fact it says the systems are so different that you can't compare them. Your argumentation is poor and you just want to fight (Because you don't answer my statements). The link clearly states: 2 years of Study (Vordiplom) + 1 year of study (Hauptstudium) > BA or BS. To my experience: I have studied in Spain, Germany and in the US (I think I have a good knowledge of the systems). Sacrumi 08:43, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest that this issue not become an edit war. If either of you have a problem, please take it to mediation or start an RfC. I would also remind Sacrumiofcivility. Please do not revert this article again. aNubiSIII (T / C) 19:58, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I guess most of controversy in the discussion above arises from a failure of communication. What Sacrumi and others were trying to point out and InfoAgent failed to understand is not exactly that the German Abitur or the British A-Levels are part of university studies, but rather that Abitur or A-Levels are actually an academic qualification that is considered roughly equivalent to at least one year of college study in the US. That is so basically because German and UK students normally enter university one year later than their American counterparts, effectively having the equivalent of a "13th grade" in High School. 161.24.19.82 19:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest, before this turns into an edit war, that both parties stop and discuss things a little further on the talk page before making edits to the article. Be aware of the three-revert rule, but also be aware that 3 reverts are not an entitlement and the purpose of the rule is to prevent back-and-forth editing. I think both parties could stand to back off and be a little more civil with each other. I'd suggest proposing concrete, sample changes to the article here, on the talk page, and going through them to try and reach consensus. If that proves impossible, I'd suggest a third opinion or a request for outside comments on the issue; such steps are outlined in the dispute resolution policy. If things degenerate into further name-calling and edit-warring, then sanctions are likely to be applied indiscriminately, to the detriment of the article. MastCell Talk 15:47, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
MastCell is completely correct on this and I also strongly suggest that both parties should refrain from further editing of this article. Edit wars which turn uncivil are simply counterproductive to the principles of Wikipedia. In terms of the issue itself, I read through the arguments on both sides and I find that this is somewhat of a controversial issue. Simply put, it is difficult to compare degrees across countries when the systems are so different. I’m sure that both parties would agree. In order to clean things up a bit, I reverted the article to its original form before the edit war began and either part made any changes. I removed the most recent edits by Sacrumi because the wording appears kind of off and it isn’t exactly clear. It’s also best to stay away from statements like “for more information, see…” I did, however, leave in the references provided by both parties. I hope that both InfoAgent and Sacrumi can agree to these changes in good faith. Again, I strongly advise both parties not to edit this article until consensus has been reached. In addition, BOTH parties should remember their civility when addressing each other on talk pages. Appropriate measures which can be taken are starting a RfC and, subsequently, moving towards a request for mediation if the RfC proves futile. aNubiSIII (T / C) 20:39, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have linked the articles Bachelor/Master in this article. The articles Bachelor and Master contain already a comparison of the degrees, so I see no point in doing it here again. I really see no point in comparing degrees in time, because if you want to do this, you have to consider the whole educational "lifecycle" (primary school, secondary school, university...). For example, students from Germany/Europe learn already subjects in school which in US are taught at colleges/school (might be that European students generally attend school longer). In university they only focus on one subject and do no general studies any more. In US students do two year of general studies and only two years where they focus on one subject. I really don't know how you want to compare this and what the point of that is. Maybe someone can explain that. I think the article should also mention that it is only about regular study time. In some disciplines in Germany (Engineering, Computer Science, Science...) the students usually need longer to obtain their degrees, because the level is very high. That is the same in other countries. Sacrumi 05:24, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
that in the U.S., Diploma Studies like in Germany are introduced because it seems that the Bachelor/Master system has too many disadvantages...; is that correct? I couldnt find anything in the Web, but i`ld like to verify this. (I live and study in Germany, and here, lots of People don´t like the Bachelor/Master System which is introduced because of the "Bologna Process") --89.49.130.103 (talk) 16:35, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
With this version[[1]] I introduced two ways to the doctor title when starting out with a "Diplom (FH)". Of course, my point was to show that this might be a bit unfair (the first way was one year less than the university way, one was one years longer), which might explain the bologna process. Now User:Dreamtyp changed that table by adding two years of "additional course work" [[2]] (and messing up my pretty layout I am so proud of, but that has been fixed ;-)). This change makes it appear as if it had been properly regulated before bologna. Now I wonder what to do with the data presented there. I'd say my interpretation is the right one, because imho that is the official way and I cannot find any official document mandating the two additional years. I also know from my own experiences that you have to jump through a lot of hoops if you want to become a doctor with a FH-diploma. That may amount to two additional years. But that depends on where you get you try to get your doctor title... so I guess someone else should decide this. Tierlieb (talk) 22:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The swedish naric, the högskoleverket definitely compare the German Diplom as a Licentiate Degree, corresponding to a Bachelor. Neither the U.K. nor the Republic of Ireland has joint Qrossroads http://www.qrossroads.eu/about-qrossroads/partners and it counts what the University of Aberystwyth is leaking out namely that in the U.K. the German/Austrian Diplom corresponds to a Bachelor. The assessment process in the U.K. involves a fee and the details are dependent upon individual cases. But the rules of thumb are given on that website! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.136.141.172 (talk) 12:46, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
-- I did find the information about the recognition of the German Diplom by the University of Aberystwyth on their website. However, I was unable to find the required information on the hompage of the högskoleverket. Maybe you can set a new link? The link you provided doesn't seem to work. Regards, --89.126.86.116 (talk) 22:21, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the claim by the IP 77.4.200.128 that the Diplom(BA) is in Germany equated to the Diplom(FH). Apart from that I'm not sure if it is relevant, it is certainly wrong if stated that generally. What is correct is that public employers usually (but this might differ between German states) equate these two kind of diploma in terms of qualification and salary. But I strongly doubt that every private employer does this. And clearly, both diploma are very different. After all, the Diplom(FH) is an academic degree, the Diplom(BA) is not. Furher, the Diplom(FH) is a 4-year degree, usually involving one internship of some months. The programme to achieve a Diplom(BA) takes only 3 years, and, as far as I know, consists to almost 50% of internships. This certainly cannot be compared in general. 89.126.37.67 (talk) 03:56, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Stop deleting the entries for Norway. You are not the Norwegian authority who does the decisions and the Norwegian statistical office has no claims whatsoever to recognise degrees. Do not involve yourself into the decisions of other nations. The same in Sweden, where the Diplom is tantamount to a Bachelor degree according to the högskoleveverket and again it is the Swedish authorities who make these decisions and not you. As a stakeholder, I have dealt with these authorities and you have not. So leave the editing to competent contributors.
-- I think we should include the evaluation by the Norwegian statistical office. It may well be that it has no authority to recognise degrees, however, there is no other proper evaluation by a Norwegian office or institute. Or at least we have no source at the moment. (NOKUT apparently doesn't evaluate the German Diplom and just states that the system is 'confusing'.) I agree, though, that we also should keep the NOKUT source in. Regards, 137.43.122.118 (talk) 18:59, 20 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
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Shouldn't the 9 year old more footnotes marker be removed, given the current state?--Nomentz (talk) 10:13, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]