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Talk:Egyptian fruit bat

Egyptian fruit bat has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: January 29, 2020. (Reviewed version).

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2019 and 14 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Asanc445.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignmentbyPrimeBOT (talk) 20:18, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved this page from Rousettus aegyptiacus, as animal pages are usually under their common name, and the scientific name redirects there. If you don't agree leave a note on my talk page. Cheers, Jack 15:53, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Hello fellow Wikipedia editors! I am currently drafting up some changes to include on this article to include some more information on the areas I think are needed. Which might potentially mean some re-organisation of some of the sections. Some of my planned changes will be on including new sections but putting some of the current sections as sub-sections to the new one. And possibly rephrasing some of the already included information with sourced points and such. I was hoping if that was alright for now. Thank you! --Asanc445 (talk) 10:59, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Asanc445, Great, looking forward to you making your edits. For some inspiration, you might want to look at Category:GA-Class Bat articles, as it has 21 articles about bats that have been rated as "Good Articles", meaning they've undergone a peer review. These would be good examples for you to follow.

My advice is to ensure that you cite everything you add! Happy to answer any questions you might have. Feel free to check out the Bats Task Force for additional resources. Thanks, Enwebb (talk) 18:08, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the advice and inspiration references Enwebb! I'll be adding some changes as of today, so I'll look forward in working with you and all the other editors for this page. I'll do my best to make sure that all the information I add is reliable. Thank you once again. --Asanc445 (talk) 19:04, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Asanc445, Excellent work so far! You should consider nominating this for a Good Article when you're finished (I'd be happy to help if you'd like). It's not a very rough process, and there are only six criteria to meet. Enwebb (talk) 21:17, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Enwebb, Thank you so much for the comment and the suggestion. As of right now, I think I am mostly done in adding any more contributions for the article; therefore, if you believe that we should nominate this article, I would greatly appreciate the help. I also don't mind adding any additional information that might be necessary to suffice the criteria. Thank you! --Asanc445 (talk) 21:36, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Asanc445, I think it looks good enough to nominate. To do so, you should follow these instructions. The subtopic you want is Biology and medicine. Once you've nominated the article, I'll add myself as a co-nominator. Then we wait for someone to agree to do the peer review! Enwebb (talk) 16:52, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Asanc445 I went ahead and nominated and listed you as co-nominator :) Enwebb (talk) 20:13, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Egyptian fruit bats are one of few species used in navigation research, and they have been shown to navigate using place cells (source). Specifically, they were the first animal shown to have place cells that work in 3D (source). Additionally, they have social place cells, which indicate the place of other bats (source). I'm wondering if this would make an interesting additional section. I didn't want to mess up anything for the GA nomination, which is why I wanted to suggest it here first. Pinging @Enwebb: and @Asanc445:. Achaea (talk) 21:02, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Achaea, that might be a nice addition to the #Relationship with humans sections. Go ahead and write something (& thanks for your interest in bats!) Enwebb (talk) 17:12, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Egyptian fruit bat/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 21:23, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi, I'll review soon, but here are some initial comments. FunkMonk (talk) 21:23, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• I think the taxobox image is a bit iffy due to the angle, low resolution, and it seemingly being on a towel, how about this one that shows it much better?[1][2]
  • swapped
• I also think this is a much clearer photo of a flying individual than the one currently used:[3]
  • swapped
• "Egyptian fruit bat" Not a very useful caption caption, specify it's a close up of the head?
  • better caption now
• The last sentences under Range and habitat and Physical description need citations.
  • removed
• "Physical description", just "description" is enough.
  • changed
• Does it have any cultural significance? After all, many other animals of the region were important to the ancient Egyptians, Hebrews, etc.
  • I looked, expecting to find something, but was surprised that this does not appear the case in the sources I can access
• You discuss the specific name in detail, but not the generic name. Since the genus Rousettus is younger than the species aegyptiacus, it was surely classified in a different genus initially.
  • Yep, Pteropus. Added to first sentence of taxonomy
• You should give dates for all the revisions udner taxonomy. For example " including by the first reviser, Knud Andersen".
  • added more dates
• You use both the spelling ægyptiacus and aegyptiacus in the taxonomy, but you don't explain the change from æ to ae, which is the spelling you mainly use in the article.
  • I think that's just part of the ICZN--see 32.5『Special characters must be reduced to their basic letters (æ to ae, ñ to n, é to e) except in German ä, ö and ü published before 1985, which have to be corrected to ae, oe and ue (after 1985: a, o and u).』Should I add a citation to the ICZN here?
    • expanded w/ citation to ICZN
• The taxonomy section should also cover what species it is related to, taxonomic revisions, and evolution.
  • Expanded with a cladogram
• You cite two 1990s sources for the subspecies, a lot has happened since that when it comes to DNA research, so can we really be sure those hold up?
  • Still considered current by Mammals of Africa (2013). Added that as a more recent citation.
• Cyprus and Turkey are duplinked.
  • fixed
• Not so important for GAN, but you are inconsistent in how you format names in citation. Some people are given full names, some only last name and initial, some only last name.
  • All refs properly formatted now

Thanks for taking on the review, FunkMonk. Pinging Asanc445 so they are aware (as they are responsible for the recent push that greatly improved the article quality). I want to give them a couple days to respond since I feel that this is their hard work, but they haven't edited since their class assignment ended so I'm prepared to do the process myself. Enwebb (talk) 23:44, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine, will take me a while to review it all in any case. FunkMonk (talk) 23:54, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

FunkMonk, alrighty, looks like I'll be going alone here. May take some time as I am not the primary author here, and thus might have to do some rewriting/rechecking of sources. Enwebb (talk) 16:26, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• "that consist of thousands of other individuals in their established nests" Why "other?
  • Removed (also turned "nests" into "roosts")
• "It prefers to establish roosts, wherever there are plenty of fruiting trees" Don't think there should be a comma here.
  • removed
• "the Egyptian fruit bat can also set up its roost in a human-made location, such as an abandoned depot or hangar, that is cave-like." Maybe "cave-like human-made location" or "human-made location that is cave-like", now you only get the point at the very end of the sentence.
  • rewritten
• "Due to its extensive geographic range, and relatively large wild population, Rousettus aegyptiacus" You should use the common name throughout, unless in a taxonomic context.
  • Removed this
• "Due to its extensive geographic range, and relatively large wild population, Rousettus aegyptiacus does not hold any specific conservation status, according to the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN)." Needs citation, and should probably be under human relations.
  • removed this--might end up adding a conservation section
• "The Egyptian fruit bats are vastly dispersed across various locations and can be found throughout the African continent, the Middle East, Pakistan, and the northern regions of the Indian subcontinent.[3] Other populations can additionally be found in the Mediterranean on the mainland coasts of Cyprus and Turkey; thus, according to a study in 2011, the Egyptian fruit bat is the only frugivorous bat species to be found in Europe." It is odd that you split the distributionlike that. Would probably be better to list all the places, and then in a new sentence say it is the only one in Europe.
  • split in two.
• In the above sentence, it is a bit odd that you say "The Egyptian fruit bats", when you otherwise just say "Egyptian fruit bat" singular throughout.
  • changed
• "Additionally, the average weight for adults" Weight of?
  • fixed
• "The males are larger than females and can be easily distinguished by their large scrotum and the prominent, stiff strands of hair that stand out around its throat" You go from plural to singular.
  • fixed
• "while the coloration on its underside is pale brown alongside with a yellowish-brown collar around its neck" Oddly worded.
  • rewritten
• "its “dog-like” features - which sometimes leads" Should be "lead" then?
  • removed
• Any more info on its skeleton, teeth, and perhaps eye colour?
  • added dental formula. It's considered an unspecialized megabat, so I added a main link to Megabat#Description. The only specific references I've seen regarding its eye color is "dark", but again, more information about eye color is in Megabat#Description
• "Similar to the other megachiropteran species, the Egyptian fruit bat only has claws on its first and second digits, while the other digits are all made out of cartilage." Interesting and pretty unusual, how come this isn't mentioned in the megabat article?
  • Ah, because it was incorrect! The digits are all bone. The first two digits have claws, while the remaining digits are tipped in cartilage.
• "Gray, J. E. (1870). "Eleutherura ægyptiaca". Catalogue of Monkeys, Lemurs, and Fruit-eating Bats in the Collection of the British Museum. London: Printed by order of the Trustees. p. 117." Why isnt this used as source in the taxonomy section? And that alternate name should be listed under synonyms.
  • revised taxonomy; added to list of synonyms
• "The Egyptian fruit bat is frugivorous, meaning that their diet" Change from singular to plural.
  • fixed
• "the fruits consumed by it" Clunky, why not just "the fruits it consumes"?
  • fixed
• "As a result of their dietary flexibility, the Egyptian fruit bat can" Change from plural. Best to stick to one style within sentences.
  • fixed
• "which provides the bat to survive harsher seasons" Looks like provides should be helps or similar.
  • rewritten
• " and disperses them adequately" What is meant here?
  • made more specific
• The use of "however" is usually frowned upon around here, though I don't have a personal opinion on that.
  • most instances removed
• "to forage for its food" Isn't "for its food" redundant?
  • fixed
• The synonym list is very long and intrusive, perhaps collapse it, as in red rail?
  • Thanks for the suggestion, reformatted
• "since other fruit bats lost this trait throughout their evolution" So this is a basal trait it retained? Or did it evolve separately again (the megabat article doesn't seem to specify, which it probably should too)? Is there more info on evolution and relationships that could be added to the taxonomy section?
  • I was using sources that were too old for the megabat article and have adjusted course—thanks! The answer is no one knows if echolocation is a basal trait for all bats that was lost in the megabats or if several bat lineages (though not megabats) independently evolved laryngeal echolocation. A few megabat taxa have non-laryngeal echolocation, such as tongue clicks in Rousettus or wing clicks elsewhere. I've added more about evolution and relationships to taxonomy.
• "Since fruit bats also eat fruit commercially-grown fruits" Redundant.
  • fixed
• "many of them find themselves being poisoned" Sounds a bit casual. Many are poisoned?
  • rephrased
• the percentage of how much crop was lost to" Percentage of lost crops would be enough.
  • rephrased to "... the percentage of crops lost to bats may have been overestimated."
• " as most pet owners have not had professional training and do not know how to care for them, and usually die within a year" This reads as if the pet owners usually die within a year...
  • Removed this part and rewrote the "in captivity" section with better sources
• "electrodes that go into the brain" Into? Aren't such electrodes usually just attached on the outside of the head?
  • Source checked and content confirmed: "The team screwed tiny wireless devices into the skulls of three bats to track their flight paths and collect data from electrodes implanted inside their hippocampi."
• "This method was developed in the lab of Nachum Ulanovsky" Is it really important to name one person here?
  • removed odd name dropping
• The intro should summarise the entire article, but there is no physical description, as well as other important info form the article body.
  • Still working on the lead but I think it's improved

FunkMonk I've made a lot of revisions--did you want to give another read through? And thanks for the patience! Enwebb (talk) 17:05, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there are a few unanswered issues left (two as I can see), I wonder if I should wait until they are addressed? FunkMonk (talk) 17:40, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've got them all now. Enwebb (talk) 19:20, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think its colouration could be mentioned in the intro too, but otherwise it looks good, so I'll pass it soon. FunkMonk (talk) 22:41, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Another thing, I think the date of the genetic study could be stated in-text too.
• I just noticed this newish paper[4] which deals partly with bat echolocation, of any use here or at megabat or bat? FunkMonk (talk) 22:27, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I glanced over that paper but don't think it dealt with the specific question (more about convergence). I did a little bit of digging and found this, published in 2017. I have edited megabat and bat accordingly. Did a bit more revising, adding the date of the genetic study, another photo, adding coloration to the lead, and redoing the disease section, which was quite short and a little exaggerative about the link between it and human disease. Enwebb (talk) 00:36, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Looking nice! I'll pass now. FunkMonk (talk) 15:00, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The result was: rejectedbyTheleekycauldron (talk) 07:49, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• ... that individual Egyptian Fruit Bat colonies have unique dialects, which pups acquire by listening to their mothers' vocalizations? Source: Prat, Yosef; Azoulay, Lindsay; Dor, Roi; Yovel, Yossi (2017-10-31). "Crowd vocal learning induces vocal dialects in bats: Playback of conspecifics shapes fundamental frequency usage by pups". PLOS

Created by Rillrilling (talk). Self-nominated at 15:06, 15 November 2021 (UTC).[reply]

• The article was't created by nominator, wasn't promoted to GA or FA, and wasn't 5x expanded. (The latest edit was on July 6, 2021) @Rillrilling: can you provide any reason why the article is eligible for DYK? Artem.G (talk) 15:15, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And there's no link in the hook, I've added one. Maury Markowitz (talk) 01:52, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this, but anyway, article is clearly not eligible. - it's not new, wasn't expanded or promoted to GA od FA. Artem.G (talk) 13:45, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Closer's commentto@Artem.G: I'm pretty sure that being promoted to FA doesn't qualify an article for DYK, and not being created by the nominator isn't disqualifying, either. But trifles, I guess. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 07:49, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]