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Talk:Endosex

This article was nominated for deletion on 28 March 2021. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Intersex people are normal people,^[1] but why does the lead say so otherwise? Perhaps the article's primary doesn't pay much attention to recent sources around the internet, or they are not familiar with what intersex actually means. Besides PlannedParenthood.org, another source says that intersexuality is not disorder, rather it's a natural variation.^[2]

I think the entire article has to be rewritten with neutral points of views, balanced for binary people, non-binary people, intersex as well as all other genders. —CrafterNova ^{[ TALK ]  [ CONT ]} 10:24, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The lead speaks of fitting normative ideas about male and female bodies. It is not saying anything about "normal", nor is it endorsing any norms, but rather it is reporting them as they exist. That is not a problem and indeed is inherent in defining this term. Crossroads ^-talk- 18:08, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Crossroads: "Normative" means what is perceived as normal, rather than what is actually normal. You have to put yourself in shoes of intersex people and other people of diverse genders in order to understand their problems. And this article, besides some other LGBT articles, lack the intention of giving readers ethical points of views. —CrafterNova ^{[ TALK ]  [ CONT ]} 16:02, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We have to say what is "perceived as normal" to define the topic. We're not saying it's actually normal. Crossroads ^-talk- 16:18, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Crossroads: The problem is not just about Wikipedia. The problem is many centuries old societal oppression against intersex people, non-binary people and other gender diverse people.
They are not "seen as normative" even when they are actually normal. This article fails to explain that fact to readers. Articles should not mislead readers. Readers and editors who are intersex have the right to objection here. —CrafterNova ^{[ TALK ]  [ CONT ]} 11:59, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All readers and editors here, intersex or not, have the right to discuss how to improve the article. All they have to do, is to demonstrate that WP:Reliable sources do not support the current content in the article, and do support something else. When normativity exists in society and is well documented, we cannot whitewash it in an article because it's evil or oppressive. See heteronormativityorcisnormativity, for example. Same thing applies here. Mathglot (talk) 06:48, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]