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This article is one of the finest, most thoroughly researched and well written I've come across on wikipedia. Many musical articles tend to be mediocre or even quite bad, and this one's exceptional. I am not really familiar with the behind-the-scenes of wikipedia, but I think this article should be nominated for a Good Article status. John Holly 15:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In Italian we call it the "pianoforte"
One thing this article lacks, I think, is a brief list of notable pieces written for the fortepiano. Basically all the lieder and "piano concerts" by Mozart were written for the fortepiano, as were all piano works by Beethoven. But I'm not familiar with these works and cannot list them. John Holly 18:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I thought that the fortepiano was the original name for the pianoforte, and someone had accidentally reversed the name. In Italian we call it the "pianoforte".
I made this stub a redirect here. It mistranslated the German Wikipedia article Hammerklavier: "The hammer piano was the earliest form of what is now known as the piano, which was first produced in the 18th century. It is a keyboard instrument. The instrument gave its name to Ludwig van Beethoven's Hammer Piano Sonata. (sic)" I also linked to the German Wikipedia article, which has information that would improve this article. --Wetman 21:02, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I just happened to be doing my musical theory, and was checking out of curiosity to see what was on wikipedia, and was horrified to find that the meaning as a musical term wasn't listed anywhere! Carl Turner 09:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This article would provide a valuable paragraph in the main fortepiano entry. It doesn't have enough distinctness to be an entry on its own.
Rconroy 18:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC) Ronán[reply]
Take it you meant to post this on the article mentioned for merging. If so, please delete both this message, and yours. :-)
Carl Turner 16:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I reverted this edit, pending a source: [1]. While I've seen some with the key colours inverted, there are others that most certainly were not. Would the editor please cite a source? For a counter example, here's a picture with the white keys clearly visible: [2]. Thanks, Antandrus (talk) 06:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for this information Antandrus, I see now what you are saying. I still recon i should put "most fortepianos have inverted keys", but i will wait & do some more research as to whether it was just a certain era that had this difference or whether it is just a few that have the standard colour of keys as this is the only one I've seen.
ps. Note to Rainwarrior: we are talking about fortepianos so kindly leave harpsichords out of it as they are a completely different instrument.
thanks, daffy_elmo
This article has no references, some form of inline citation is required for Good Article. Also external jumps which should be converted to references, one sentence paragraphs, don't wikilink solo years like 1777, and too many external links. M3tal H3ad 09:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to add a sentence to the effect that a fortepiano sounds kind of out of tune, like a piano you might hear in a church basement. But I thought better of it. 71.122.13.2 01:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Image:100-DEM-REV-154x74.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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The Wikipedia Manual of style page on Section headings says "Avoid restating or directly referring to the topic or to wording on a higher level in the hierarchy (Early life, not His early life)." As such, I am removing the uses of the word "fortepiano" in the subtitlesNazamo 21:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, this article was written primarily out of the books by Stewart Pollens and Edward Good (both cited in the bibliography), before in-line references had become common on Wikipedia. It should be possible to footnote virtually everything the article says on the basis of these two references, but this could take me a while, given other current WP projects ... Opus33 (talk) 18:28, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Cbrodersen, I've rewritten (rather than re-reverted). The goal is to give Arnold Dolmetsch due credit, but avoid creating the unintended impression that the 20th century pre-1970 was a particularly good time for fortepiano building, which I assume you'll agree it wasn't. I hope this works for you. Cheers, Opus33 (talk) 01:40, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Opus33, my 2008 OED defines fortepiano as "a piano especially of the kind made in the 18th and 19th centuries", so the authoritive OED does actually now record this usage of fortepiano. The point being made in this article, it appears, is to underline the recent use of fortepiano to refer to early pianos, which is a perfectly valid one. Perhaps, as the current sentence referring to OED is now out of date, it should be reworded to reflect this. What do you think? StantonCarlisle (talk) 18:10, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, Pianogen's edits are unsourced and don't read very well as prose, but (s)he is basically right, I think, in that the scholarly literature doesn't use "fortepiano" to refer to Cristofori's instruments. I suggest retitling this article "the early piano" and shifting some terminology, but would like to get feedback from other editors before trying it. Thanks, Opus33 (talk) 12:46, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Please add a link to my site: www.gerardtuinman.nl it has much information on instruments build by Conrad Graf and on the construction of early pianos in general.83.83.152.215 (talk) 11:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In the italicized "gravecembalo col (or di) piano e forte", is "or" supposed to be the English word, meaning "col" can be replaced by "di"? In the article, "or" is italicized, along with the rest of the name, so I'm not sure if it's part of the name or not... – Kerαunoςcopia◁galaxies 19:17, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Maybe the etymology section as-is isn't a good candidate for first section, but the intro should provide a brief clarification of how fortepiano differs from pianoforte. The {{Distinguish}} template is unsuitable here as it would only further confuse readers. Paul_012 (talk) 15:25, 25 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Is harpsichord translated as Gravicembalo or clavicembalo? Google Translate seems to indicate that it is clavicembalo, and that gravicembalo means 'gravity'. It also appears that this incorrect translation has spread far and wide across the internet. OTOH Google Translate accepts user submissions, in which case the whole internet may be wrong. Family Guy Guy (talk) 01:10, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
= edit: it appears that google translate is wrong: https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/89.4.1219/ Family Guy Guy (talk) 01:17, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
According to The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians and academic standards, the words pianoforte and fortepiano are synonymous. The assertion this article makes to distinguish the difference between the two is not correct in any means. The article itself back-pedals with multiple sources proving that it's quantification of the words are incorrect. It also begins by saying "A forte piano is an early piano" despite also saying "not to be confused with pianoforte." So the article cannot even decide which is it? Is a fortepiano it's own instrument unrelated to the piano or is it a piano?
So how do musicologists quantify older pianos? Generally, it's accepted that the pianoforte developed into the modern grand in ~1850 with the addition of a cast-iron frame. However, today's piano action has improved significantly since 1850. Prior to 1850 many historic pianoforte's from a variety of manufacturers began production sometime after 1770. Creating a separation between pianoforte and fortepiano does not contain a single benefit and instead makes discussions more confusing. The correct manner to substantiate a specific pianoforte is to include the date of manufacturer (or suspected date if in question) and the brand-name.
In practice: Erard 1866, Fritz 1816, Conrad Graf 1835, Hofmann 1790
Also consider that this article is calling all pianos from 1850 to present a "piano." ~180 years. But the time-frame from 1770 to 1850 is only eighty years. The piano was not popular from 1700 to 1770 and the main research in that time region is Cristofori's pianos. iirc Between 1808 and 1816 a form of double-escapement action was developed allowing it to perform similar virtuosic material to the modern grand. This begs the question whether or not this articles decision regarding "piano era's" makes sense.
Another issue is that the piano article shares similar if not near identical content, sources, and photographs. It makes much more sense for piano to mean 1850 to present and pianoforte or fortepiano to mean 1700 to 1850. (Although, there are likely some pianos before 1850 that could be argued fit into the modern piano category.)
I suggest the following:
1) Merge fortepiano into piano which would benefit its fortepiano section, Removing the unsubstantiated differences between pianoforte and fortepiano.
2) Think deeply regarding what this article is trying to communicate and the focus or feature of the content. Then how to separate the two articles in a manner that makes sense and solves it's problematic aspects so that this article has a clear direction.
According to wikipedia merge guidelines I believe this article fits into all five of Wikipedia's reasons for merging. Fortepiano is a duplicate of piano. Both articles contain overlap. This article is fairly short. Readers may benefit from the content of the piano page prior to reading about the pianoforte. I also don't think it meets any of the reasons for not merging. Adding the fortepiano article to piano will not make piano too long. Many articles such as WW2 or Donald Trump are much longer than piano would be. They aren't really stand-alone articles and are not discrete subjects as one must comprehend the modern piano prior to learning about historic pianos. Merging also allows discussion of the development of piano pedals from 1770 to the modern day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Merging
173.180.197.253 (talk) 20:15, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 11 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Talaaburoumi (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Lindseybean28 (talk) 21:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]