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Talk:Georgetown football, 1874–1889

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This article was nominated for deletion on 26 January 2024. The result of the discussion was keep.

A fact from Georgetown football, 1874–1889 appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 14 March 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that the first game in Georgetown football history was never played? A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/March. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Georgetown football, 1874–1889.

The result was: promotedbyLightburst talk 16:02, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• ... that the 1874 Georgetown football team included two "football censors" – a position whose roles are unknown? Source: "The first attempts at organizing football on campus came in 1874. A meeting of students held on November 1 of that year named a committee of 15 to form a football association. This committee elected a president, vice president, secretary-treasurer and two censors. Exactly what a football censor did in 1874, the College Journal does not explain."
  • ALT1: ... that the first game in Georgetown football history was never played? Source: see hoyasaxa and HoyaFootball.com, which lists the earliest game results - their first scheduled game in 1881 was a forfeit win because their opponent didn't show up
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Babe Ruth's funeral
  • Comment: Nominating one day late due to waiting for the AFD to close.

Created by BeanieFan11 (talk). Self-nominated at 01:14, 3 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be loggedatTemplate talk:Did you know nominations/Georgetown football, 1874–1889; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

• Article was newly written before it was nominated and is long enough and has sources where they're needed. Neutrally written, Earwig detects shared text but they are quotes that are attributed. I'd rather you rewrote the according to HoyaSaxa.com than copy that. Hooks are interesting. Sources indicate that Georgetown's first game was forfeited. Problem with that hook is that the HoyaFootball source is the only one there and all it says is that Georgetown beat Alexandria, 2-0. It doesn't say the game wasn't played. Censors hook is solid. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:24, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Muboshgu: Rewrote that one part; as for the HoyaFootball source, it has a note at the bottom that says Forfeit win, Alexandria team did not appear (2-0 is a score that was often used to indicate forfeit). BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:24, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • You're right, it does say that at the bottom of that page. Thanks for rewriting that one line. Good to go. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Georgetown Hoyas football is obviously notable but I'm not sure that the pre-1890 history needs its own article? YazonKnight (talk) 03:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• This was already discussed several times and determined here. I don't quite understand your "major renovation" to this on your fourth-ever edit? That removed a large portion of the text and the vast majority of the references?? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:32, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you for the link I should have checked that. You are right I haven't edited much so thank you for looking at it. I thought there were a lot of issues so I tried to fix it.

  The references I deleted were for Gallaudet which I thought was unnecessary (including game information against Georgetown when Georgetown has its own records of the first games against Gallaudet) including one from The Silent Worker which did not seem to have the information it claimed it did (about these being the first games in DC). There was also a reference for an archived page of games 1881-1890 which is replaced by the game-by-game page on HoyaFootball (it has the same information). I added a reference for the College Journal because it's quoted so much.

  I removed the information about games against 'the House' because those dates do not line up with Gallaudet's game dates and were reported separately. (I personally think this was referring to an intramural game and got confused).

  I removed the reference to the possible game in 1884 being reported by WaPo as I could not find this article myself and the source for that is other sources claiming it said that without a quote or link to the article.

  I changed some of the season infoboxes because the HoyaFootball sources list them as coaches when in the boxes they are listed as captains. I removed some info like attendance or time from schedule boxes because they were listed for only a few games (but I can see why they should be kept). Some game times/dates as listed were wrong so I also edited those.

  I changed some links that were wrong including links to Emerson Institute (which should be to Emerson Preparatory School which it was renamed to), a link to a soccer game between Princeton and Rutgers (references do talk about wanting to be like football teams at these schools but this has nothing to do with their soccer teams). Dead links for Alexandria High I changed to be for Alexandria City High School (which is the school they fought).

  If you want me to explain anything else I can. I want to make sure the article is good. YazonKnight (talk) 16:21, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm fine working with you to change the article if you think there's issues; it only seemed a bit – odd – that someone would find this very random article on their fourth-ever edit, decide to make major changes, and understand wiki terms like "notability". Still am a bit curious: how did you find this article and decide to make the changes only three days into your tenure? I'll look over the changes again soon. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:42, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I found the article in the Did You Know section on the front page. I originally just wanted to fix some grammar but I started looking at citations and snowballed a bit.

  I learned about notability from reading the guidelines on making a good article & what should be made because I wanted to make an article on Malvaviscus penduliforus and wanted to make sure it was okay. YazonKnight (talk) 17:34, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Good enough for me :) – I'll look into making some of the changes later today. Note that there's been some dispute over this article, including a grammar conflict shortly before you came in, which made it seem a bit suspicious. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @YazonKnight: Made a couple changes, including regarding Gallaudet. Though about that, how were you able to confirm that that article in The Silent Worker did not report it was the first game in D.C.? (other users at Wikipedia had used that reference to verify the same thing, which is where I got it from) If the HoyaFootball sources are the exact same, I think its preferable to use the archived version (as that way, it will never change, whereas there's a possibility that the other one could in the future). Regarding the Washington Post, are there complete, searchable archives of the paper available? I don't see why or how something like that would have been made up (although I changed it to say that reportedly there was a mention in the WaPo). Regarding the infoboxes, I changed them to say head coaches; also changed the Emerson link. The 1869 Princeton vs. Rutgers football game is considered to be a college football game. I'm not sure Alexandria City High School is the correct link; apparently it was founded in 1965 and named until 2021 T. C. Williams HS? I'll look into the game report boxes and see which ones are incorrect. Let me know if there's anything else. Thanks! BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:24, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I read the article here and didn't see a part saying it was the first game in DC (it may be on another page/article, not sure. Also I believe the author is supposed to be Olof Hanson instead of Hansnom)

  The archived source for game 1881-1890 does seem to have slightly different information on games like not including the field for the unconfirmed St. John's 1884 game, a different score for one of the 1883 Gallaudet games (and saying they were at 'Athletic Park' instead of Kendall Green),and different games and dates for the 1888 season. I'm not sure which one would be be a better source based on issues recounting game scores?

  I've tried finding an archive for WaPo which is difficult. There IS an article from 'The Critic and Record' Nov. 16, 1888 that mentions a St. Johns game against Georgetown. I found a clip here but you do need an account or library access to view it. Apparently the Critic was merged with (?) WaPo for a while in the 1880's so that may be it?

  I think you're right with Alexandria City HS but I'm not sure then what school it could be. Papers talk about Episcopal High School at Alexandria, maybe that school? I'm not sure. Papers also mention a nameless 'High School' frequently.

  Old sources can be very frustruating... Thank you for your work I appreciate it fr. YazonKnight (talk) 17:38, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  You've got some pretty good research skills. I'll look further into making more changes probably tomorrow. Thanks! BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:51, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Sorry for the delay! – have been busy – will make sure to check everything by tomorrow (Sunday). BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Don't worry about it-- I appreciate your dedication :) YazonKnight (talk) 20:30, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]