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![]() | This article contains a translationofHyperkorrekti muoto from fi.wikipedia. |
I just removed the following part:
"The words 'och' (and) and 'att' (to) can both be pronounced /ɔ/ in spoken language, which can lead to speakers mistakenly replacing 'att' with 'och' in some situations:『Det ska bli kul och göra』– 'That will be fun and do'."
While what the sentence says is correct, I removed it because it is not a hypercorrection but just a simple language error.
--Jhertel (talk) 21:43, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As this is a somewhat pedantic and contentious subject with variation between different dialects, I think we should only have examples that are supported with high quality sources, otherwise the article becomes a home for everybody's pet hate, whether it is correct or not. Martin Hogbin (talk) 12:15, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that WP should have a global perspective and that there are undoubted examples of hypercorrection in other languages but I cannot see the point of giving examples of these in English Wikipedia. Such examples require a high level of competence in the other language which most readers her will not have. I propose to remove non-English language examples unless anyone objects. Martin Hogbin (talk) 16:42, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comments. I have no problem whatever with the use of IPA. I do understand the desire for WP to have a world view. We do not have one WP but many versions in different languages. I agree that, ideally, all versions of WP should have the same content, covering the whole of human knowledge, from all possible perspectives. The problem I see is that this is an article about language itself. That, in my opinion, is one case where a genuine world view is not possible, unless we envisage having every case of hypercorrection in every language in the world in the article.
Another problem is that the pool of editors who can verify references is much reduced for articles in foreign languages, potentially reducing the quality.
It is interesting to see how other language articles deal with the issue:
Pronoun Refers almost exclusively to English but has links to the same subject in other languages.
Grammar Deals with the subject much more historically and conceptually, giving examples from many languages.
Verb Covers the subject conceptually but gives extensive Spanish and Kalaw Lagaw Ya examples only.
I think that giving predominantly non-English examples in English WP is absurd and lets our readers down. Most users, both Native English speakers and others, will be expecting a comprehensive discussion of the subject as it pertains to the English language in English WP.
As a model for this article, I suggest something between Pronoun and Grammar. We should deal with the subject historically and conceptually, give comprehensive examples in the English language, have links to other language articles, and have some examples of other languages, particularly where they have forms of hypercorrection that are not found in English.
We could start by reducing and summarising the non-English examples. Martin Hogbin (talk) 09:11, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In most Spanish-speaking countries, the V and B have exactly the same sound. But because people learning Spanish insist on adding a fricative to their Vs, natives studying English absorb the same into their Spanish. More than that, quite often you'll hear people adding that fricative to their Bs. For example, Americans, refusing to say /bibir/ say /vivir/, then many Mexicans not only begin saying /vivir/, but /vivlia/ (for biblia). Any linguists want to pitch in a source for that, or simply edit it in to the Spanish section?--Mrcolj (talk) 20:33, 7 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I've heard many people answer the question "how are you?" with "well". this seems like a hypercorrection. "how are you doing?" is more appropriately answered with well instead of good, so people overgeneralize. Should this be added? I am not good at research. does anybody know where to find a source for this? Cliff (talk) 19:42, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)The precursor was, "How do you do"—not much in use these days in the UK.
It was not a question about the person—just a meaningless greeting whilst tipping one's hat. The other person replied with the same meaningless greeting, also saying "How do you do".
"How do you do" was even spoken as a statement, not as a question—without a rising tone at the end.
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| —
10:55, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hypercorrection is a term in Psychology as well as Linguistics. I am looking to add a section about what it means in Psychology.Jh470 (talk) 12:21, 13 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Since Wikipedia articles are organized by topic rather than by name, two different ideas that happen to have the same label should be on separate pages. It would only be appropriate to describe hypercorrection in psychology within this article if the two concepts are very similar. I don't think they are, but I'm not sure. (For more explanation see WP:Wikipedia is not a dictionary#Overview: encyclopedia vs dictionary.)
You can help by creating a page with a name such as Hypercorrection (psychology). See Wikipedia:Your first article for help creating a new article.
The note at the top of the page (called a "hatnote" in Wikipedia parlance) is meant to disambiguate articles – in other words, to send people to the correct article when two or more things might be known by the same name. I don't see any mention of hypercorrection at Compensation (psychology), so agree with you that the note should probably be removed. When Hypercorrection (psychology) is created, a hatnote could be added to each page to help readers find the topic they are looking for. Cnilep (talk) 01:53, 14 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Currently, under personal pronouns, the page reads this:
However, in English, the case of a pronoun in a coordination is the same as when it stands alone. Although some professional speakers might say, "They invited Sandy and I", they are still human. And to err is human. Furthermore, if professional speakers sometimes use this form, that only means it is becoming acceptable. Another example is split infinitives. Take the following for instance: "Try to not do that." This may be acceptable, but it is still grammatically incorrect. The correct sentence is as follows: "Try not to do that." And as one more note, the English professor is the one that argued against such usage of "They invited Sandy and I." The linguistics argued for it. If either one of the two groups would know the correct grammar, it would be the English professor. Over and out.74.102.216.186 (talk) 01:16, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I may have lost my temper, here. I apologize. (f.k.a 74.102.216.186)LakeKayak (talk) 17:54, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This is perhaps the best example of inappropriate synthesis and WP:OR I've come across anywhere in Wikipedia. It's a well-written, and quite fascinating article, but entirely inappropriate for Wikipedia. I'm almost tempted to propose deletion. 62.245.143.18 (talk) 22:18, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This article should really cite some sources. For example the section about Polish is quite ridiculous.
"One example of hypercorrection in the Polish language is the "adoption" of coleslaw (itself stemming from a Dutch term) by adding accents that seem to be simulating the Polish name Bolesław."
Adding 'accents'? What accents? What does that even mean?
"This can be explained by only some English sounds in foreign names entering the Polish mass lingual consciousness: for example, Cola is almost never pronounced with a [ts] sound, as would Polish language rules dictate the letter "c" to be pronounced, yet "leggings" are often pronunced the same way the word "jeans" is (ledżinsy)."
I don't understand how this explains coleslaw. The sentence "only some English sounds in foreign names entering the Polish mass lingual consciousness" is very unclear. [d͡ʒ] in "jeans" would also be an English sound. Cola is never pronounced with a [t͡s] probably because "c" is never pronounced that way in English, while "gi" is sometimes pronounced [d͡ʒ] - hence the confusion. Do you mean that [g] as an English sound didn't "enter the Polish mass lingual consciousness"?
"Other common examples of hypercorrection in Polish include nasal pronounciation of terminal ę, as in rękę (correctly [-ɛ] and hypercorrectly [-ɛ᷉]) or hypercorrect pronounciation of voiced consonants instead of voiceless ones (jabłko pronounced as [ʝabʊłko] instead of [ʝapłko] or [ʝapko])."
This phonetic transcription is insane. It's neither IPA nor anything else. And [japwkɔ] is virtually impossible to pronounce, do you suggest it's the correct pronunciation? Also, I don't think pronouncing voiced consonants instead of voiceless ones is a problem in Polish. Do you know any other example other than 'jabłko', which is a word with quite an unusual consonant cluster?
In several North American English accents (including my own), the letter ⟨r⟩ is not pronounced when it is the coda. For example, the word ⟨trucker⟩ is pronounced like /tɹə.kə/, the word ⟨cluttering⟩ is pronounced like /klə.tə.ɪŋ/, and the word ⟨rubber⟩ is pronounced like /ɹu.bə/. Though not limited to the letter combination of ⟨er⟩, this feature is typically highlighted by the realization of ⟨er⟩ as /ə/. Generally, when a word ends in the letter ⟨a⟩, it is pronounced as /ə/ as well. Thus, when some people with accents with this pronunciation feature attempt to speak with a more standard American dialect, they end up pronouncing words like ⟨africa⟩ as /æ.fɹɪ.kʊɹ/, ⟨soda⟩ as /so.dʊɹ/ and ⟨vanilla⟩ as /væ.nɪl.ʊɹ/. Sometimes this hyper-correction is done for comedic purposes as well.
Anyone have any citations for this? It's something that I have observed throughout the years but not something that I can back up with non-anecdotal evidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by B23Rich (talk • contribs) 18:31, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I just added the following hatnote (and another on a related page):
"Overcompensation" redirects here. For compensation as psychological tactic, see Compensation (psychology).
The question arises whether overcompensation should point to the other place instead, which actually defines the term, whereas this article only manages one use in passing:
Some older people, who grew up speaking nothing but their dialect, are unaware that there is a difference between 'g', 'ch' and 'h' altogether and trying to 'mimic' Dutch, they often overcompensate and pronounce every word they would normally pronounce with a 'h'-sound as a 'g'.
For myself, overcompensation has always meant the other thing to begin with. — MaxEnt 20:07, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I was surprised not to find "who" and "whom" among the English examples. Overuse of "whom" seems to be a very common hypercorrection. JMT32 (talk) 23:25, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The article states: "An example [...] is the use of octopi for the plural of octopus in English; this is based on the faulty assumption that octopus is a second declension word of Latin origin when in fact it is third declension and comes from Greek."
I don't doubt that this is correct; however the link for "third declension" goes to a page about Latin declension. Should this instead be a link to a page about Ancient Greek declension - such as: Ancient_Greek_nouns#Third_declension?Ross Finlayson (talk) 23:27, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The plural of rhinoceros is rhinocerotes. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:D816:867D:55D1:6622 (talk) 14:59, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Consider incorporating something about the very common over-usage of "myself" instead of "I" when people are trying to sound more formal. Example: "John and myself will lead this initiative". (Reference[1])
References
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Is this really an error? I have always interpreted this as an effort to sound refined, posher than posh. It could also arise because people are becoming unsure about the you and me versus you and I thing and they take myself as an escape route. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:D816:867D:55D1:6622 (talk) 10:31, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As the L sound does not exist in Japanese, Japanese people learning and speaking foreign languages may hypercorrect the Ls and say the Rs instead. --Tyranitar Man (talk) 12:38, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see why we should give benefit of the doubt the all the WP:OR that was in the article. Some of it was even asking (via the use of wikitext comments, <!-- ... -->) for other editors to add their personal opinions on the matter. WP:V is very clear in either case, "All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material." 107.190.33.254 (talk) 00:53, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Those who condemn it simply assume that the case of a pronoun in a coordination must be the same as when it stands alone. Actual usage is in conflict with this assumption."
That is fine, but in dative or accusative position this usage is immediately rooted in hypercorrection, stemming from the perceived error of "you and me" in nominative (subject) position. Since incorrect "you and me" is the older one, the question ought to be what compels people to use "me" in coordinated subject position - which does often sound more natural (unlike dative/accusative "you and I" which is a bit jarring). The underlying mechanism appears to be (i) one of politeness. In "John and me" I de-emphasise myself and make John the most important character, and this holds up even when I rudely mention myself first, as in "Me and John couldn't find any." and / or (ii) a grouping effect: "John and me" signals that it is the pair of us that, as a single entity, serves as the grammatical subject. Thus the nuance of "John and me found that strange" is that we responded together, whereas "John and I found that strange" implies that initially we responded similarly but independently and perhaps compared notes later.
Also possibly relevant are phrases such as "It's only me" and "Who else but lil' ol' me?" - here we clearly have the grammatical role that would normally trigger the nominative case but virtually all native speakers would agree that "I" sounds odd in these phrases and "me" perfectly normal. Interestingly, in the first example the "grammatically correct" I now smacks of hypercorrection, whereas "lil' ol' I" changes a standing idiom, which a native speaker would only do in jest. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:D816:867D:55D1:6622 (talk) 10:26, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Under the heading Personal Pronouns, the meaning of the second paragraph is unclear. Does it mean to say that "Sandy and I" or "Sandy and me" (my choice) is correct? Rick Bellamy (talk) 16:39, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]