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Talk:Iliad

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Iliad article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 10 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Grenadine13 (article contribs).

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Aouligian.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignmentbyPrimeBOT (talk) 10:50, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Synopsis/ Overall Organization[edit]

Hi all! I'm a student editor, and I'll be working on this article for the next several weeks. I plan to primarily focus on making the synopsis more concise rather than book-by-book, and examining if there is a way to reorganize the information to make it more accessible. Specifically, I'm planning to mirror the structure used in the Odyssey article, as that is a Good Article and the texts are obviously similar. There had been a new organization (archived now) proposed by @Quadalpha: quite a while ago, I will also be keeping that in mind to see if I can incorporate any of their ideas. You can see their structure here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Iliad&oldid=976674841#Reorganisation/rewrite I'd appreciate any input! I'll continue updating here as needed. Grenadine13 (talk) 20:10, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm beginning work on Synopsis, using the Odyssey article as a reference. Rather than book-by-book, I am working on dividing it into logical sections, then including a concise summary of what occurs in those books. My sandbox can be found here User:Grenadine13/Iliad.

Grenadine13 (talk) 21:26, 7 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've finished my work on the Synopsis, if anyone else has any thoughts, feel free to contribute! Grenadine13 (talk) 21:06, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is this character list necessary? There seems to be some good information about gods in the Iliad buried in the middle that could be placed into its own section, but other than that, I'm not sure it should be included here. There is a link to List of characters in the Iliad article that is more detailed than this list here. Including a similar but less detailed list here seems redundant. Grenadine13 (talk) 21:13, 7 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The information about the gods within the Iliad was buried in the character list. I've deleted much of the character list, included the link to the main article, as well as the link to the Achilles and Patroclus article. I've moved the information about the gods and divine intervention into its own section. I've completed the edits in my sandbox, I'll give it a couple days before changing anything on the actual article to give others time to contribute! The sandbox can be found here: User:Grenadine13/Iliad. Grenadine13 (talk) 21:51, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think the Duels of Greek and Trojan Heroes (Books 5-7) section could use expanding, if anyone has the time and knowledge to do so! From what I remember, more heroes' duels are mentioned. A general overview of these heroes could be valuable to include. Grenadine13 (talk) 17:00, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article was tagged in December 2021 with "This article possibly contains original research" but what that original research is has not been described on the talk page. It would seem that this tag should therefore be removed. Teishin (talk) 21:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Teishin:Looking through, I can see several places with WP:OR. The problem is usually using the primary text as support for analysis rather than secondary sources, as is wikipedia policy for WP:OR. Using the original text as sole source is fine for the synopsis only. Here's the places I'm seeing:

• Much of the "themes" section. A common problem for these kinds of sections, where analysis is made by Wikipedia rather than drawn from scholars.
• Parts of the Date and Textual History. We get the West citation, but then the rest of the first section appears like OR
• Some of the assessment parts of the English translations section. These judgments of, e.g. the Fagles and Lombardo translations being "bolder" are OR.

Don't have time to address at the moment, but hopefully this helps someone do so. Etherfire (talk) 14:29, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve taken the tag off. This is a particular bugbear of mine. I see absolutely no point in these drive by taggings often by editors who are relatively new, with little experience of WP, wishing to display new found zeal, but which zeal doesn’t extend to setting out exactly what the issues are on the Talk page or even WP:SOFIXIT. Lazy and it does no good. Etherfire has done far more good setting out where the improvements are needed. That post is far more useful than pointless tagging. DeCausa (talk) 21:41, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]