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As you enter the harbor, there's a shipwreck. This I remember very distinctly from my trip to the island. That and watching the World Series half a world away. Loved Ios 24.24.244.132 (talk) 09:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Hatnotes have been added to the article. Dekimasuよ!07:36, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed but I think an island is more important than all the other thing. Plus the only thing that is called ios/IOS is the operating system but in that case is iOS(TakisA1 (talk) 18:33, 11 March 2018 (UTC))[reply]
Support "Ios" is quite a notable place in itself, so the computer program should not take precedence. While certainly not "unconfusable" as nominator claims, a hatnote can retarget anyone searching for iOS.ZXCVBNM (TALK)17:07, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note the huge division of the results of a google image search for "ios" versus "ios island". This is not just a google thing. The real world feels the need to disambiguate this unusual little name (3 letters all vowels) to "Ios Island"eg. Propose renaming to Ios Island. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:02, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. In my opinion WP:SMALLDETAILS should be invoked when reliable sources consistently make a spelling difference between the topics; I clearly see that here, with the island being a "primary topic" for Ios and the system for iOS. I don't think we should cater to "people unfamiliar with" stuff – we're here to educate them, after all. No such user (talk) 12:50, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support per No such user. Clearly possible to have two different primary topics here. Both "Ios" and "iOS" should have hatnotes pointing first to eachother, second to "IOS (dab)". --T*U (talk) 13:31, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Ios → Ios (island) – Anyone searching with ios currently gets taken to the island rather than to Apple's iOS. This is not serving our users well at all as page views of iOS dominate page views of this article by a daily average ratio of about 25,000 to less than 200[1], and probably many of the views to this page are intended for the operating system. By moving this page as proposed without leaving a redirect, or creating a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECTtoiOS, all searches for "ios" with any capitalization will go to iOS, which is clearly the overwhelming WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "ios" and "Ios", as well as for "iOS". В²C☎00:31, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Not convinced the OS is the primary topic. The island is where Homer is supposed to have died. So I'd say it is the primary topic for long-term significance. Also, as mentioned in the previous RM, both terms are almost always capitalised differently, so no need to move per WP:SMALLDETAILS. Vpab15 (talk) 14:57, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You’re misreading SMALLDETAILS which says, “The general approach is that whatever readers might type in the search box, they are guided as swiftly as possible to the topic they might reasonably be expected to be looking for, by such disambiguation techniques as hatnotes and/or disambiguation pages. When such navigation aids are in place, small details are usually sufficient to distinguish topics”. Currently, users typing “ios” in the search box “are not guided as swiftly as possible to the topic they might reasonably be expected to be looking for”, because page view counts clearly indicate they are most likely seeking iOS but are being taken here.” —В²C☎06:32, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support move since indeed many people won't bother to capitalize and SMALLDETAILS works well in cases like MAVENCricketsorRùm where a reader using an all caps, plural or diacritic etc could only be looking for a particular article or at least like Iron maiden where a meaning is the original generic meaning so at least is primary by PT#2. In this case readers are far more likely to be looking for iOS so its best to disambiguate. Per Paintspot I'd consider redirecting to the DAB at least for now to reduce problems with PT swaps. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:04, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There are two factors to consider in terms of primary topic; long term significance, and usage. The island has been populated for at least 5000 years, and during that time span has had an important influence on the region and through it the world, and was at times a minor power in its own right. This makes it, very easily, the primary topic in terms of long term significance, to the extent that the usage argument is overwhelmed. BilledMammal (talk) 03:13, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No. Originally, usage was the only factor to consider when determining primary topic. Historical significance is useful to consider when primary topic is not obvious from usage, but in this case it’s not even close. —В²C☎06:22, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It’s fact, not interpretation, that historical significance was added as a factor to consider relatively recently. It’s true that no precedence is explicitly specified but WP:SMALLDETAILS does state: “The general approach is that whatever readers might type in the search box, they are guided as swiftly as possible to the topic they might reasonably be expected to be looking for”. Nothing about historical significance there. The implication is that historical significance only matters when there is no clear PT by usage. —В²C☎08:25, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
While I've addressed long term significance, and believe that long term significance is sufficient to maintain Ios as the primary topic for Ios, I should also address usage as I don't believe that argument holds true either. In particular, it is being asserted that users are typing in "ios" expecting to be taken to "iOS", but are instead being taken here.
Are you not aware that almost all users get to WP article pages via Google and other non-WP search engines? So of course they’re all bypassing the Ios page. In fact, if you search Google with “ios” or “Ios” you only get results about the OS, including WP’s iOS page. I looked through ten pages of results—nothing about the island. That’s rock solid evidence that Google’s billion dollar technology has determined the OS is the primary topic for “ios” and “Ios”. —В²C☎08:25, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies if I have misunderstood you, but it seems you are saying that there is no issue on Wikipedia, because search engines correct the issue before it impacts Wikipedia. I'm not sure I agree with that, but regardless - if there is no issue on Wikipedia, then why would we want or need to move this page? BilledMammal (talk) 08:51, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for not being clear. Our job is to serve the relatively small number of users who do use WP search to get to whatever article they’re seeking “as swiftly as possible”. Google takes care of their users by showing them the OS results including our iOS page when their users search with ios/Ios. We should follow suit. Of those searching with “ios” almost all are looking for the OS, so we should take them there, not to an article on an island they’re almost certainly not looking for. Requiring users to type iOS and not ios to get directly to the article on the OS is not serving our users well. —В²C☎21:14, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That would make sense if the page view count for the island was not totally and utterly overwhelmed by the page view count for the OS. If the OS is not the primary topic for “ios”, then nothing is a primary topic for anything. —В²C☎21:19, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for clarifying.
However, I'm not sure that you address the evidence I raised. In particular, you claim that Of those searching with “ios” almost all are looking for the OS, but you have only presented assumptions in support of that, while I have presented evidence against it. Indeed, take a look at the views for Ios and iOS between August 2020 and February 2021; during those months, the views for iOS increased by almost an order of magnitude, and if you are correct the views for Ios would also have increased significantly. However, not only did they not increase, they actually decreased in line with the seasonal fluctuations of the other Cyclades. BilledMammal (talk) 00:17, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently all those extra page hits for iOS came via external search engines. Whatever numbers are using WP search, surely you’re not suggesting most of them are going through the trouble to search with “iOS” rather than “ios”, are you? —В²C☎08:42, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What I'm suggesting is that we follow the evidence. However, I feel this discussion is no longer productive, as it seems neither of us have anything further to add; I've presented my evidence, you disagree with it, though I note you haven't rebutted it, and we are not progressing. As such, I think we should let our positions stand rather than clog the discussion and dissuade additional editors - and we do need additional editors in order to provide clarity for the closer, who is faced with, once the two WP:VOTES have been discarded, three options (support, oppose, disambiguate) each with equal support. BilledMammal (talk) 09:37, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, we have both provided evidence. Page views and Google results. Our disagreement is not about the evidence, but about what it means. I think it means people searching with “ios” and “Ios” are overwhelmingly looking for the OS article. You think it means they’re looking for the island, despite the relatively anemic page view counts for the island even though that article’s place is at the base name. -В²C☎18:18, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Anyone looking for the island is likely to look for Ios. Those looking for the OS will look for iOS. It is in this case a shame that our software does not distinguish between ios and Ios, but it is not worth inconveniencing all of those who do know the name of the island to cater for some of those who do not know the name of the OS, and who will get there via the hatnote anyway. Andrewa (talk) 06:56, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeWP:SMALLDETAILS works well here. Nobody calls the operating system "Ios", and it's only "ios" if they don't want to use a shift key. The concerns about "search autocomplete" seem wrong (and not based in policy); when I type "ios" in the search bar it shows the various capitalizations. If you want people to feel lucky, they can use Google. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 04:07, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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