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I removed the castles section, and suggest making a seperate article. The main topic is geographic valley not its contents,it has industry, transportation system, cities and so on, but it shouldn't be its main content. Additionally the content looked quite poorly, no wikilinks, no extensive information.--Molobo (talk) 22:20, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I reverted your change. This valley is a major cultural center of Silesia, it has more then 40 manors, castles and palaces, together with its parks it was a Gesamtkunstwerk which was (and hopefully soon is again) comparable to Loire Valley (there is no mention of industry or the transportation system either). The local administration tries to register it as a World Heritage Site!
But if you insist on your perception I will of course be open to compromise and just describe why the valley lost its appeal after 1945. Karasek (talk) 09:00, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is completely irrelevent in Silesia in terms of cultural life, the cultural centre is in Wrocław, other cultural events take place in Legnica (Satyrykon for example) or Kłodzko(industrial festiwal). The local administrations usually trie to notice themselfs. As to Gesumktwerkt whatever that means(please use English in future) it has no importance to todays Poland. Every region in Poland has castles, manors, and certainly in better condition and large numbers then the badly looking ruins reminding us of Germanisation of Polish territories. In short-do not mistake the past for the present, the Valley has many aspects but this is geographical article and germanisation history is not the most important thing of the place. Especially as it is a poorly written section.--Molobo (talk) 10:55, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
1) if you don't understand what I mean with cultural center I rephrase it: it is an outstanding cultural landscape of the 19. century, shaped by the best artist of this era.
2) Gesamtkunstwerk (is it that difficult to copy and paste?) is an established term in the English speaking world: Gesamtkunstwerk PS: it is a matter of courtesy to spell these words right, even when they are difficult. Thanks for being rude, and not for the first time.
3) I don't speak about other Polish regions but about this very region.
4) It's nice that you agree with me that these former German territories were neglected after 1945.
5) Germanisation of Polish territories? Sorry, but when this cultural landscape was created it was German for centuries.
6) Poorly written articles can be improved. I just translated the German article and will expand it later. Karasek (talk) 11:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
1-That might be interesting to people of 19th century, but we are in XXI century and many more interesting things are happening. I don't seen anything notable about some castle ruins compared to vibrant Polish cultural life of today. I am not against mentioning that some signs of past Germanisation of Polish territories can be visible in the form of deserted ruins but I fail to see why this should be more important then modern festivals, industry, transportation, demographics and so on. However this is irrelevent-this is a geographic article and nothing of the above is notable in it.
2. It certainly isn't, and is restricted to Germany, not to Poland which the article is about. Again I remind you that past is past. And I really don't see anything useful in cluttering the page with german names for non-existing articles that are of almons zero importance to the valley.
3. And this region is nothing special. They are hundreds if not thousands ruins of castles in Poland. I see nothing spacial in this region to justify cluttering the page with names of non-existing entries. Especially since they are more important things in the modern valley.
4. I agree, too many signs of the Germanisation that threatened to destroy Polish people were left unremoved or unchanged to benefit the returning original Polish population. However Wikipedia is not a forum and my personal opinion is not of importance.
5.I am sorry but those were originally Polish territories Germanised. If Warsaw would be conquered by Germans for centuries as German state planned in 1939-1945 it wouldn't become German territory.
6. Good I will move this irrelevent information there.--Molobo (talk) 12:11, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting, the note by Molobo about the "Polish" territory.
Let 's see --- Silesia was conquered partially by Mieszko I, mostly by Boleslaw I, both pledged fealty to the empire.
Since the mid 12th century there were dukedoms in Silesia established by the Holy Roman Empire and the dukes of Silesia took the dukedoms as fief's from the emperor. Therefore Silesia at the most was Polish territory from shortly before 1000 AD to about mid 12th century , in other words 150 years the most, but throughout all that time the dukes of Poland pledged allegiance to the empire. An Observer 4 October 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.137.197.97 (talk) 17:09, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
