This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kibbutz article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies |
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | Kibbutz is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 17, 2005. | ||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The section "Kibbutzim outside of Israel" of this article was edited to contain a total or partial translationofKibboutz from the French Wikipedia. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors. (This notice applies to version 1032395005 and subsequent versions of this page.) |
![]() |
Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers. This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors |
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Kibbutz (album) should be added as part of one hatnote. Also, another hatnote containing a link to recently created dabpage Kibbitz (disambiguation) should be added as well. --George Ho (talk) 06:08, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm confused by the situation. "Kibbitz" redirects to "Kibitzer". I can't find anything to verify that "kibbitz" is an accepted alternate spelling of "kibitz". In any case, I don't think that part of the hat belongs here. I think it's potentially misleading. A hat to distinguish kibitzing from kibbutzim may be in order. Perhaps "Kibbitz" should redirect here as a misspelling of kibbutz. I just don't see the value in a hat warning of potential confusion between kibbutzim and a made-up word. Joefromrandb (talk) 01:31, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, Wiktionary gives "kibbitz" as an alternate spelling of "kibitz". Further, the disambig page links to articles for "Bernie Kibbitz" and "Sid Kibbitz", so I guess redirecting it here is a non-starter. I still share Malik's concern that, "not to be confused with Kibbitz" is less that ideal. Joefromrandb (talk) 01:44, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The first religious kibbutz was not Ein Tzurim - it was Kibbutz Tirat Tzvi, founded in 1937 in the Bet Shean Valley. 212.150.177.199 (talk) 10:57, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Malik Shabazz: I modeled that after the article "Goy", which says, "regular plural goyim". "Regular plural" may not be the best choice of words for either article, I admit. I was basically acknowledging that plurals ending in "s" for Hebrew loanwords occasionally appear in English, and while they're technically not incorrect, they are less-preferred than their "im"-ending counterparts. While there's no question that "kibbutzim" is the plural of "kibbutz", I do find dictionary entries for "kibbutzes" (and "goys"). Joefromrandb (talk) 05:00, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'll be straightforward here in saying that I'm not super informed on the finer points of wikipedia editing, namely what causes this article to be unable to be edited, but under "sexual imprinting" the entry on the Westermarck effect cites out to this page in saying that said effect can be seen in the Kibbutz system, but there is no citation there nor is there any citation here as to who exactly is asserting this. On the main page for the Westermarck effect there is one single source that appears to back up that claim, but in the same article under "criticisms" it asserts that, in fact, another study made, arguably, a more solid assertion that the Westermarck effect was not in play, as they found co-reared peers may not have married but DID report substantial attraction to each other.
So why exactly is the claim about the Westermarck effect supposedly being in play here not cited here, in this article that by not being able to be edited to me suggests that it should be held to a higher level of scrutiny, and why exactly is it not really mentioned that the claim, which is held up by one single citation, based entirely on conjecture, has as equally as much evidence refuting it? If a potentially controversial subject like the Westermarck effect is going to be mentioned at all then care should be undertaken to ensure it's actually presented accurately. Yes, some have, with no solid evidence, attributed the conservatism to the Westermarck effect, but further studies have laid a solid case for that not being accurate.
I don't even know if this is how one would go about suggesting a change to this, but that's largely because I haven't figured out why I can't edit this but I can edit other pages. Perhaps it's because it's deemed "high importance", but if it's so important then I really feel like it's important enough that a random guy like me shouldn't be finding material to take issue with on such a basic levelPenguinato23 (talk) 01:34, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Kibbutz. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:17, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kibbutz. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:31, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The section on emotional involvement is not accurate. according Mordecai Kaffman's paper published in the american journal of psychiatry, "No evidence was found of unusual percentage of behavior problems attributable to emotional deprivation" The study can be found here: https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/ajp.117.8.732 , similar conclusions are reached by Leon Eisenberg and Peter B. Neubauer found here: http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0002-7138(09)61938-5/pdf , among others. I wish to update the section with more accurate information 91and71 (talk) 13:57, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps when discussing Bettelheim's opinions on the psychology of kibbutzniks, it should be noted somewhere that he's been thoroughly discredited as an expert?
Although the article mentions at the end of the section anecdotal evidence proving him wrong on specific findings, the way it's written now overall, it doesn't even hint at those findings being anything other than mistaken conclusions of legit research by an actual scientist. So one would have to take the time to read Bettelheim's own wiki page to find out otherwise. That's a problem IMO.
Considering especially how... bold some of Bettelheim's cited opinions are, I don't think they should be presented as is without the context of him being basically a quack/fraud.--109.196.118.133 (talk) 18:16, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Seems that this whole article has been written in order to promote the socialist/collectivist agenda even though facts within the kibbutz themselves have shown, beyond doubt, that there had to be an adhesion to capitalistic principles in order for them to become something of a viable system. This is downplayed in the article whereas collectivist "benefits" are overly advertised. This whole article reminds me of the communist propaganda found in "encyclopaedias" like the "Great Soviet Encyclopaedia" where everything was great and advancing. But reality can't be altered with words on a site and Wikipedia needs to adhere to scientific evidence, ALWAYS accompanied by citations and discourage political malevolence, here in the form of political propaganda by ideologue editors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by C R O M (talk • contribs) 20:38, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In the ideology of the kibbutz section there is a sentence that reads as follows: "Kibbutzim were run as collective enterprises within Israel's partly free market system". Wouldn't it be better to swap out partly free market system with mixed economy? Mixed economy is in my opinion correct technically & it is a neutral identification that doesn't have the negative baggage that free market does. GRosado 04:20, 6 June 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by GRosado (talk • contribs)
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Can someone change the "leadig" to "leading" in "Ideological disputes were also widespread, leadig to painful splits"? Brobotics Brofessor (talk) 15:12, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
... to the user as it is now.
A. Nonsensical: the production in the privatised form looks more kibbutz-regulated than in the unprivatised form. Also, the sources are older (1989, 93) than the info (1999 and later)!?!
B. The info is too technical for the layman, and too poor fot the legally trained user.
C. The multitude of individual privatisation solution packages adopted by individual kibbutzim since 1999 is a basic info, and it's not even mentioned.
Who can fix it? Cheers, Arminden (talk) 07:27, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Just a suggestion for updating a syntax error - the plural of kibbutz is used frequently(146 times if I remember correctly), while in Hebrew the correct phrase is קיבוצים(Kibbutzim, but that's loosely translated),in english, shouldn't it actually be kibbutzs? kibbutz's? 212.29.214.50 (talk) 12:10, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
for "In a 1977 study, Fox[citation needed] " add this https://www.jstor.org/stable/1128480?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents -- Opalpolo (talk) 19:04, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I cannot edit this page, therefor I make the proposal here.
I refer to, among other things, this passage:
"This conservatism on the part of kibbutz children has been attributed to the Westermarck effect—a form of reverse sexual imprinting whereby even unrelated children, if raised together from an early age, tend to reject each other as potential partners."
The Westermarck effect is highly speculative, from my point of view unlikely to exist, and if we look a the Westermarck article on Wikipedia, we can see that there is substantial critisism from scientific sources. I quote:
"A 2009 study by Eran Shor and Dalit Simchai demonstrated that although most peers who grew up closely together in the Israeli kibbutzim did not marry one another, they did report substantial attraction to co-reared peers. The authors conclude that the case of the kibbutzim actually provides little support for the Westermarck effect." "Jesse Bering cites several studies that seem to contradict the standard view of the Westermarck effect as an innate learning process; instead, it may be a cultural phenomenon."
("Shor, Eran; Simchai, Dalit (2009). "Incest Avoidance, the Incest Taboo, and Social Cohesion: Revisiting Westermarck and the Case of the Israeli Kibbutzim". American Journal of Sociology. 114 (6): 1803–1842. doi:10.1086/597178. Bering, Jesse (17 Aug 2010). "Oedipus Complex 2.0: Like it or not, parents shape their children's sexual preferences". Scientific American. Retrieved 18 September 2014.")
Writing about the Westermarck effect without mentioning the research that indicates that this effect is probably non-existent, or at least purely cultural, is potentially keeping a myth alive.FreieFF (talk) 15:52, 28 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please delete "regular" from "regular plural" as there is no irregular plural of קיבוץ within Hebrew. SuzieMillen (talk) 00:15, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove the WeWork advert, it's tangential at best, and does not justify it's own section. 2A02:C7F:361A:D00:3883:C1A8:B66D:42AA (talk) 01:38, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please put Am Olam, a 19th century Jewish communal agrarian movement into see also. I would but page is protected, thank you. 69.120.202.15 (talk) 19:01, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I let you know some google-translated datas from French wiki to possibly complete the "en" one.
Kibbutzim outside of Israel
The "Kibbutz Buchenwald"
References
Kibbutzim in France
References
{{cite web}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
and |date=
(help); Unknown parameter |site=
ignored (help).
{{cite web}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
and |date=
(help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(help); Missing or empty |title=
(help); Unknown parameter |site=
ignored (help); Unknown parameter |titre=
ignored (|title=
suggested) (help)
{{cite web}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
(help); Unknown parameter |site=
ignored (help)
{{cite web}}
: Check date values in: |accessdate=
and |date=
(help); Unknown parameter |site=
ignored (help)
Since I don't manage "en" wikipedia, I propose those informations to this community.
Peace.
Shloren (talk) 18:36, 21 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please put Am Olam in see also; it was another "back to the land" Jewish communal movement. Also add Category:Jewish socialism . Thank you 24.44.73.34 (talk) 17:05, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In "The first kibbutzim" section, link Joseph Baratz to Yosef Baratz. Thanks 24.44.73.34 (talk) 04:13, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In gender equality section, fix link of masculinization of women to Gender role#Changing roles 24.44.73.34 (talk) 22:47, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
{{edit extended-protected}}
template. I don't think that's an apt target section, as that's more about how the norms are changing in cultures over time, rather than one gender taking on some of the traditional roles of another in a small group. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:27, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add a reference to this article : the book Our Hearts Invented A Dream: Can Kibbutzim Survive in Today’s Israel? Published by Cornell U press in 2003 and co- authors are Gary Brenner and Jo-Ann Mort- we also had an article on this subject In Dissent Magazine and reviews and interviews Parkslopepisces (talk) 21:03, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the section "group pressure to conform" the entire first paragraph, except the first sentence, does not have a single reference to back the claims up. It seems inappropriate to leave such tendentious paragraphs when they lack any academic references, especially when these claims are quite one-sided and, as the next paragraph implies, disproved. I would suggest to remove this paragraph, or provide sources. Milan.francis (talk) 22:53, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
pleek 🥺 TitoBRPA (talk) 00:10, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Today nearly 200,000 living in the kibbutz 2A06:C701:42B6:D300:F58A:8471:C74C:4197 (talk) 11:44, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
‘ Change ‘First Aliyah’ to ‘First Aliyah (1881-1903)’ Centrepiece12 (talk) 09:05, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Should the kibbutz meshulav be considered a type of kibbutz? 68.237.53.160 (talk) 03:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or|ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Settlement is a political term and specifically refers to communities beyond the green line. Recommend changing settlement to community. F smithers (talk) 10:26, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
{{Edit extended-protected}}
template. '''[[User:CanonNi]]'''
(talk|contribs) 12:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]There's not a wrong fact as such, more an implication that I'm sceptical of. It's defined in the intro as a Hebrew word, but the word sounds Yiddish. I think it's not a Hebrew word used in English, it's a Yiddish word that is used as a loan word in both Hebrew and English. So needs a citation saying Yiddish got it from Hebrew, or needs a less misleading framing to mention it's Yiddish. MWQs (talk) 12:16, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Origin 1930s: from modern Hebrew qibbūṣ ‘gathering’.Artem.G (talk) 12:55, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]