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While browsing for literature about historical computer games for a student assignment I came across an article in Leonardo from 2001 called "Does Lara Croft Wear Fake Polygons? Gender and Gender-Role Subversion in Computer Adventure Games" by Anne-Marie Schleiner. Seems like an interesting academic perspective on the character. I'll just add it to the article as "Further reading" so it doesn't disappear into the archives. It's accessible through JSTOR if anyone's interested.
Goodie. JSTOR is a wonderful resource, but acces to it is sorta biased towards the academic world. Images are not the same, but I assume the text is. It's a rather different perspective than what you find in most articles on video game characters, so it'll be fun to see what you VG regulars make of it. :-)
1) The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary.
YPass, although I removed a little bit regarding the third un-made film which lacked citations, tagged for months.
2) The article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies.
YPass, nothing missing for the casual reader as far as I can see.
3) The article has a defined structure.
NFail, lead section shouldn't have citations in it. Awards can be cited in the "Critical Reception" section, thus not requiring them in the lead. Description of plot/theme citations can be put into "Appearances" section, thus not requiring them in the lead.
4) The article is reasonably well-written.
YPass, looks good, reads well, although improving to have more flowing prose rather than short stubby paragraphs will help it further.
5) The article contains supporting materials where appropriate.
YPass, good usage of images.
6) The article presents its content in an appropriately accessible way.
YPass, although echo concerns raised in item 4 for future movement up the quality scale.
I believe that one issue about citations being in the lead has been fixed. I left the sentence about Lara croft's image as I believe it gives a good, quick summary about what Lara Croft does. Phynicen"Chat"22:16, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The sentances are fine in the lead, the citations just need to be somewhere else. I believe one way to summarise it is that the lead section doesn't need in-line citations, as long as the facts presented there are clearly sourced in the main article segment. Anyway, meets the criteria now, will mark as B-class and retag at WP:VG/A. --Taelus (talk) 22:21, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Starting with the reception section, just pointing out things that seem odd to me as I read through it:
"IGN's Jesse Schedeen described Lara Croft as one of few characters to receive a decent videogame-to-movie adaptation."
This feels a little out of place, as it seems more a note of the films themselves than of the character, no? The rest seem fine but this one sentence seems to stand out...
The Fan Response paragraph still feels odd to me where it is...it might be better up directly below the lead paragraph for Critical Reception as a part of the section's lead-in, as it does help build momentum.
When you consider how long it took me to start work on the article, I can't really complain. :-p Real-life happens.
Back on point. I moved the Schedeen sentence. Hopefully it flows better. When I researched the character, I literally grab almost everything I thought was relevant. The intro paragraph to "Cultural impact" ended up as the dumping ground for content that didn't seem to fit elsewhere. So if the Schedeen's statement adds little then we can take it out. Though I think that the movie milestones (highest-grossing video game movie and largest opening) are in the same boat.
I admit that the fan response is one of the weaker section in the article. But I'm hesitant to add it to the "Critical reception" because that section deals with comments from industry professionals. I guess we can rename it just "Reception". Thoughts? (Guyinblack25talk15:07, 28 June 2010 (UTC))[reply]
Just scanned through the article, and it certainly doesn't quick fail. Will go through bit by bit from here; pace will depend on how many issues I find, but on the whole it looks pretty good.
Lead
(second para) "The new developed rebooted the character.." I assume you mean to say "The new developer..."?
"Lara Croft has been voiced by four actresses throughout the series: Shelley Blond, Judith Gibbins, Jonell Elliott, and Keeley Hawes." – Would it be worth mentioning in this bit that she was portrayed by Angelina Jolie in the films? For some, this will be the prinicipal medium in which they have seen her.
"This status has been a point of contention among critics." – This seems oddly placed on the end of the paragraph. Could it be made to flow slightly more, or maybe given a tiny bit more depth, even in the lead?
Design
This section appears to relate entirely to her visual appearance, except that it says "English". I accept that she is depicted as being English, it just seemed odd given the rest of the paragraph is visual.
Right, I intended to get through more than that, but I've come over really tired, so I'll have to come back to it tomorrow. I would invite you to start responding to my comments as soon as you wish. Harriastalk21:07, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Icopy edited the lead per your comments. I'll work on the "Design" section later. Do you suggest providing more information about the character's backstory? I've been on the fence whether that should be added or not. (Guyinblack25talk21:49, 6 July 2010 (UTC))[reply]
Yeah, I'd say more information on the back-story would be relevant. Not over the top, given it's an article about a character, not a biography. But I think it would definitely be worth adding something about it, assuming you can find RS for the information. I'm at work at the moment, so I'll continue the review later. Harriastalk09:26, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"2003 saw the release of Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness," – per WP:ORDINAL, a year should not start a sentence, try rewording it? (I know you probably did it like this to offer some variety!)
At the start of the paragraph you use "travelling" while later on you use "traveling". I haven't had a chance to pay much attention to whether the rest of the article uses British or American spellings, but can you be consistent throughout?
Development history
"..character's set of moves three fold to allow more interaction.." – I *think* "three fold" should just be one word, "threefold".
"Excess content, missed production deadlines, and Eidos's desire to coincide release with the Tomb Raider film resulted in a poorly designed game, however; Lara Croft was brought back to life without explanation and the character controls lacked precision. – Not keen on this sentence, it doesn't flow right. Might be solved simply by removing the word 'however'?
Right, that's the end of my lunch-break. I'm just about to start the "Switch to Crystal Dynamics" section (note for my sake more than yours). Harriastalk12:33, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I believe I fixed the above issues. In regard to the British vs American spelling, I tried to maintain British English. Travelling with two "L"s was not a difference I was aware of. Someone else fixed the first instance, but the second one went unnoticed until now. (Guyinblack25talk14:18, 7 July 2010 (UTC))[reply]
Switch to Crystal Dynamics
As we're using British English: "Rachel Weisz was rumored to provide voice work for the character" should be "rumoured".
"Staff used the death to illustrate that shooting a person should be a difficult choice and Lara Croft's guilt afterward." – The second part of this sentence seems fragmented, "and Lara Croft feels guilt afterward."? or "portrayed by Lara Croft's guilt afterward."? Or something else?
"Spherical harmonics add indirect lighting to in-game objects like Lara Croft to make them appear more natural in the surroundings." – Again, sounds a bit weird, more like a review about something current, or yet to come out, certainly doesn't sound too encyclopedic. Similar for the next sentence too, possible try rewording this paragraph a bit?
Hopefully addressed the points.
I was concerned that the technical information in the article would be a snag at review because it was difficult to write. Present tense was used because those effects occur in real time. Any time you play the game, the gaming system will dynamically create the visual effects while you play. In that sense, the effects occur in the present. Typically in articles, I've seen graphics creation that are made as static elements referred to in past tense. Like a pre-rendered background is created by capturing a still image of 3D graphics, but that image loads while playing the game.
I always find it tricking when writing such things because the sentences frequently switch tense, which I understand can break the flow. I'm unsure if my edits to the article improved this though. Let me know. (Guyinblack25talk21:53, 7 July 2010 (UTC))[reply]
Modelled takes a double 'l' in British English. (third paragraph)
And although "licensed" is correct, "license" should be "licence". (noun takes c, verb s)
Model portrayal
British English uses "dialogue", not "dialog". (Also, earlier in the article, I've just noticed, "installment" should be changed to "instalment", and "skeptical" should be "sceptical".)
Might be worth putting SAS in brackets after Special Air Service, although the link will make it clear, for those not wanting to follow the link, SAS is more commonly known.
Cultural impact
"signaled -> "signalled" Might be worth having a double check through the article for these double consonant extensions, I'm sure I've missed some!
"The character is honoured in the British city Derby,.." – Might this read better as "British city of Derby,"
And another batch done; will hopefully finish it off tonight or tomorrow for you, finding it a really interesting article though, and it'll be an easy pass, just with a few more copy-edits first! Harriastalk14:52, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the points have been addressed. I need to look up more about the backstory and I didn't add the "of" to Derby. I've avoided such wording in the past as I thought it was redundant. Let me know if you think otherwise. (Guyinblack25talk15:16, 8 July 2010 (UTC))[reply]
Yeah, I can understand your reasoning for the 'of'. I'm not that fussed either way, I just had to re-read it first time to make sense of it. With regards to the back-story; I'm happy that the article is up to Good article standards without it, and will happily pass it without you having done that (though you'd need it before a featured article review I'd say). But, if you'd rather I didn't pass it until you did it (to make sure you do it to standard,) I'm happy to wait. Harriastalk15:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Given your already helpful suggestions, I would certainly appreciate the input. I plan to check online sources today. Depending on how much I find in them, I'll need to check two print sources at home later. (Guyinblack25talk15:37, 8 July 2010 (UTC))[reply]
I think that's about all I can add without going into trivial details. But I typically try to err on the side of caution for these things, so it might still be too little. Let me know what you think. (Guyinblack25talk18:14, 8 July 2010 (UTC))[reply]
Right, I've been through the rest of the article, and the information added in for the back-story, and I'm happy with it all. I've made a fair few changes regarding US spellings. I'm now happy to pass this article, well done, it was an interesting read. Harriastalk07:09, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed this in the lead of the article. "The character's debut was well-received by the video game industry, but slowly declined until the series' reboot in 2006, which was met with mixed responses." As far as the gaming press goes, TR:L and TR:U were received reasonably well, scoring around the 75-85 range on many publications. Is it proper to say that the reboot was met with "mixed responses?" TheKillerAngel (talk) 04:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The games were moderately well-received, but the rebooted aspects of the character was met with mixed responses. See the last paragraph in Lara Croft#Critical reception.
This Wikipedia article is totally bland and misses all the controversy about the character redesign that is going on outside the "loyal fanship", who apparently control this page.
Timeline of Lara Croft's voice actresses for different language versions of the main games[edit]
I start this section of discussing to state that we need the Timeline, as it was reverted.
I come also with the list of references.
My statement of using the timeline: it is said that Lara is able to speak dozen of languages... so it made me curios how she sounds in other languages... Lara Croft's voice being very important for the English speakers, but an English speaker might not care how she sounds in other languages... I understand that some English speakers (not necessarily native speaakers) might not even concern how she sounds in one other language (other voice different then original is the way she is perceived by the other language listeners), but the English article is the one of the broadest and really read article, the timeline is ment to keep overall statistic in time (now and future). User Guyinblack25 stated the revert like this :Revert good faith edit- I'm sure a lot of work went into that, but that is excess detail and unsourced for the non-English voice actresses,
see the revert here
I don't feel the timeline to be an "excess" information, on the contrary, I feel it simplifies the way you perceive all voice actresses, not giving you a normal plain list.
Here are the references (every wikipedia article tells details about their contribution as voice actresses):
While I appreciate the info and the time put into it, I'm still not convinced that it is relevant to the topic. For starters, information relevant to other languages is typically excluded from articles unless the topic originated from another country. Since Lara Croft was an English creation, such content adds little unless it is covered by third-party sources. Generally, Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source for citing content on Wikipedia. That being said, what makes the other source (eldoblaje.com) reliable per WP:RS? (Guyinblack25talk22:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC))[reply]
I don't feel to add anything more. I add here the timeline in discussion:
I wouldn't call it stupid. It's just unsuitable for Wikipedia without third-party coverage. Wikipedia's playground, Wikipedia's rules.
To be honest, I spent months immersed in writings about the character and never found out about other voice actors outside the English ones. Which makes me feel rather stupid. So I for one find it informative, and would like the time line remain here on the talk page for archival purposes. At least its someone on the net. (Guyinblack25talk17:24, 23 February 2011 (UTC))[reply]
One of the problems I saw with the article at FAC was that the cultural impact section seems to me too fragmented -- it doesn't draw the many sources together well enough. Here's a proposed rewrite of the first three paragraphs of the reception section; I've cut all the citations for now as I don't have the sources myself, but I think they could be easily readded since this text is based on what's there now. The only exception is a couple of dates, which I've put in as "199x"; I think those would be nice to have but aren't critical.
The first Tomb Raider was commercially successful, with PlayStation Magazine attributing the game’s success to Lara Croft’s character. Croft was widely regarded as an innovation in the video game market with “her ballsy attitude and tough girl image”; she became extremely popular, and has been described as a video game icon of that generation of games. Her popularity may even have been responsible for the rise in PlayStation sales in 199x. However, it has been argued, conversely, that it was the game’s success that led to Croft becoming well known, with coverage of Croft in the Financial Times in 199x suggested as the starting point of mainstream attention to the character.
Croft’s popularity declined over the next few years, with poorly received video game and film releases. Computer and Video Games magazine described her as “old and tired” when the fourth game, The Last Revelation was released, in 1999. Although the first film, which appeared in 2001, was relatively well-received, the second, Cradle of Life, released in 2003, was much less popular. The character’s low point may have been reached that same year with the release of The Angel of Darkness: “the queen is dead” was one comment, and the string of unsuccessful titles had by this time relegated Croft’s character to a “gaming also-ran”, in the words of reviewer Ryan Rayhill.
Crystal Dynamics’ reboot of Croft in Legend in 2006 was widely, though not universally, praised. The game itself was named one of the top 50 games of the year by Game Informer, which cited the changes made to Croft’s character as part of the reason for her resurgence. Her updated appearance and the additional gameplay manoeuvres pleased some, with one reviewer asserting “Lara is finally back”, but others disagreed: Croft’s unsophisticated outfit made her look like a 1990s “15-year old floozy”, according toOfficial U.S. PlayStation Magazine. A review in GamePro ranked the reboot as the sixth worst game character makeover, and Croft was listed by another reviewer as the second most overrated video game character. One aspect of the makeover which particularly annoyed Croft’s fans was the switch from wearing a braid to a pony tail.
Sorry for the very delayed response. May wasn't a good month for wiki-matters.
I've been re-reading the reception with your suggestions in mind for a draft of my own below. I tried to consolidate the content more. Though I still believe that proper attribution in the prose is the way to go. Otherwise, the prose would rely on ambiguous weasel words.
Lara Croft's introduction was widely regarded as an innovation in the video game market,[3][122][123][124] with Rob Smith of PlayStation: The Official Magazine describing her as a video game icon of that generation of games.[67] IGN credited a rise in PlayStation sales in part to Croft's debut on the system,[7] and PlayStation Magazine attributed the first title's success to the character.[125]Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine stated alternatively that Tomb Raider's PlayStation success propelled the character to prominence, making her a mascot for the system.[126]PlayStation Magazine credits coverage in the Financial Times in 1997 as the starting point of the character's mainstream attention.[84] As years progressed, Lara Croft's popularity declined, which Game Informer attributed to a string of bad video game sequels and the poorly received film sequel.[55]The Angel of Darkness is often cited as the character's low point.[3][61][127] IGN editor Colin Moriarty stated that while she began as an intelligent and strong female character, her games grew bland and Lara Croft became more like a "virtual blow-up doll".[128]PlayStation Magazine reviewer Ryan Rayhill commented that the string of poor sequels relegated the character to a "gaming also-ran".[111]
Crystal Dynamics' rendition of Croft in Legend garnered wide, though not universal, praise; many publications described the portrayal as a successful reboot. Game Informer named Lara Croft the number six top video game hero of 2006, citing the character's successful reprise in popularity, and named Legend one of the top 50 games of 2006.[129] The magazine cited the character's alterations in Legend as the reason for her resurgent success.[70][127] Chris Slate of PlayStation Magazine lauded the character changes in Legend, commenting that "Lara is finally back". He praised Eidos' decision to switch developers and Crystal Dynamics' contributions, especially the character's new gameplay manoeuvres and updated appearance.[130] Dana Jongewaard of Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine disagreed, stating that Croft's outfit lacked sophistication and made her look like a 1990s "15-year old floozy".[131] Fans expressed anger on internet forums at the switch from the braid.[3] Schedeen and GamePro's Patrick Shaw felt that the makeover did not improve the character.[120][132]
I have to say I think my approach is much more readable; the inline attribution in the prose is very distracting to a reader. I can understand why you like to do it that way, but I think if good judgement is exercised by the article editors then a valid summary of the sources can be given and the sources themselves can be put in the footnotes. If you feel that the specific one to one attribution of opinions to sources has to be maintained, then the footnotes could give the explicit data -- that is, a cite to Game Informer is clearly enough if only one opinion and one source is being mentioned, but if the sentence is more general and combines comments from multiple sources you could break them out in the footnotes. I don't think that's necessary myself, though. I think the job of the editor is to process these sources and tell the reader, in direct prose, what can be reliably said about the topic. The sources must support the article but don't have to be visible in the prose. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:14, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You have no argument from me that summary-style is more readable. However, I believe that WP:V comes into play here more than style guidelines. I'm also hesitant to summarize too much since I've gotten "caught" (for lack of a better word) using weasel words too often at past FACs, GANs, and peer reviews. In prose attribution (Person from Publication stated...) has solved this problem in my experiences. That being said, I realize that my approach makes my writing rather dry. I don't think either of our first proposals are best for the article, but I believe a happy medium exists. Perhaps if we each keep pulling the other from opposite directions, you from summary and me from attribution, we'll find that medium? Of course, the more input the better. So please do solicit opinions from where ever you think is best. I'll post at WT:VG. (Guyinblack25talk15:22, 20 June 2011 (UTC))[reply]
I was asked by Mike Christie to comment on this discussion -- sorry for the delay. While I admittedly know very little about Lara Croft, my general rule of thumb while writing reception-style sections is to include attribution where notable, but cut it when it becomes obviously repetitive. "So-and-so said this, whereas such-and-such said that" not only quickly becomes tiresome after several reiterations, but it also tends to dilute important names/publications when they come up. Plus, assuming that the writer/publication will be listed in the accompanying citation, it's not like whomever says what will be completely left out. Reviewers often hit me with "who said this?" comments during reviews, which is an obvious concern where there is no attribution at all; however, that doesn't mean that such sections need to be saturated with such mentions, just for the sake of verifiability. The focus should always be the subject of the article (Lara Croft), not the reviewers themselves. Therefore, maybe a healthy compromise between the two proposed versions can be used? PlayStation Magazine seems notable enough, but rather than naming it 5+ times in the span of two paragraphs, try to cut it down to two? Perhaps cull the author names where less-notable, as well; there are so many names mentioned, it quickly becomes confusing and makes me question why these numerous individuals' opinions matter. Anyway, that's just my opinion. I hope it helps. :) María(habla conmigo) 13:55, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Maria. I agree with your take; my trouble is I don't know which sources are notable and which are less so. Guyinblack25, any comments? If you agree with Maria's approach, perhaps you could go through this section and identify which are the sources that a knowledgeable reader of the article would expect to see named in the text, per Maria's comments? Then we can work on a version that names those and puts the others sources in footnotes. Maria, would you be willing to give us some follow up comments if we come up with a consensus version? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:17, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the long delay. I've been playing catch up on Wikipedia things.
My concern with too much summary style, particularly with a reception section, is that these are primarily opinions and I worry that they'd be misconstrued as concrete facts.
In regard to the most relevant sources, that's very much debatable. The franchise was previously associated the most with Sony consoles (PS, PS2). However, it originated, and stayed close to for a while, on the home computer market. It has now consistently gone multi-platform. So I'd say anything PlayStation or multi-platform related (IGN, GameSpot, Game Informer, etc.) would be the best bets. But that is still a large pool to draw from.
Here's another draft that further summarizes the content
Lara Croft's introduction was widely regarded as an innovation in the video game market,[3][122][123][124] with Rob Smith of PlayStation: The Official Magazine describing her as a video game icon of that generation of games.[67] IGN credited a rise in PlayStation sales in part to Croft's debut on the system,[7] and PlayStation Magazine attributed the first title's success to the character.[125]Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine stated alternatively that Tomb Raider's PlayStation success propelled the character to prominence, making her a mascot for the system.[126]PlayStation Magazine credits coverage in the Financial Times in 1997 as the starting point of the character's mainstream attention.[84] As years progressed, Lara Croft's popularity declined due to a string of poorly received video game sequels.[55][111]The Angel of Darkness is often cited as the character's low point.[3][61][127] IGN editor Colin Moriarty stated that while she began as an intelligent and strong female character, her games grew bland and Lara Croft became more like a "virtual blow-up doll".[128]
Crystal Dynamics' rendition of Croft in Legend garnered wide, though not universal, praise; many publications described the portrayal as a successful reboot. Game Informer named Lara Croft the number six top video game hero of 2006, citing the character's successful reprise in popularity.[129] The magazine cited the character's alterations in Legend as the reason for her resurgent success.[70][127] Chris Slate of PlayStation Magazine lauded the character changes in Legend, commenting that "Lara is finally back". He praised Eidos' decision to switch developers and Crystal Dynamics' contributions, especially the character's new gameplay manoeuvres and updated appearance.[130] Others, like Schedeen and GamePro's Patrick Shaw, felt that the makeover did not improve the character.[120][131][132] Fans also disapproved of the changes, especially the switch from the braid.[3]
The present page (n.r. Lara Croft article) has an edit notice like the one above but from the history of editing of all other Tomb Raider articles I think that such an edit notice is necessary.--TudorTulok (talk) 23:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The games after Angel of Darkness are American developed, so those probably don't need it. But given the character's background and the series history as well as for the sake of consistency, this sounds reasonable. (Guyinblack25talk14:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC))[reply]
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With the release of Tomb Raider, shouldn't Lara's history of adventure be updated in the Description section? The plot of that game is cited as Lara's very first adventure, not the supposed survival lesson from a plane crash in earlier games. 192.225.180.136 (talk) 06:01, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think the article needs to wait for the next release to get another serious revision. Then everybody will know much more stuffs about her and the enthusiasm will grow once again. Till then you could fix the minor problems by yourself, or let me know where it needs to be changed.--TudorTulok (talk) 22:30, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Lara Croft is NOT an archaeologist, nor is there anything in this article to suggest she is one. Lara Croft is a Treasure-Hunter, and/or a Grave-Robber, and/or a Looter. As injurious as this may be to fans of the fictitious character, any or all of these terms should be substituted for 'archaeologist' in the preamble to this article. Etherdave (talk) 21:20, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As an old fan of the series I agree with you, and I see now clearly that she is not a true archaeologist, she makes a mess everywhere she goes, but for our and her entertainment purposes :-p, but I believe you can't be a true archeologist when you have a horde of bad guys chasing you, first save your life, and then the tombs. In her biography it is stated like that, in most games she is called archaeologist. It's a good idea writing like this on the main page: despite being called an archaeologist in each game, including her biography, regarding her studies, her real activity is Treasure-Hunter, and a Grave-Robber.TudorTulok (talk) 00:55, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
While I don't want to dismiss the reboot here, given that it redesigns the character a fair bit and a lot of the focus on Croft has been to do with the whole "sex symbol" thing, I think it'd be better to get another lead image. It doesn't help the current one is pretty dark, so personally I have a bit of trouble making out any real details. We already have this image, so I'd be in favour of just moving it to the infobox.
As to the current image, we already have this, so we could probably either cut it or replace the other image. I'm pretty neutral here: I have an easier time at seeing, at low resolution, the design in the concept art, but the render might be truer to her depiction in the reboot series. – The Millionth One (talk) (contribs) 01:32, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
When was the image made?
That is not the Lara Croft image I remember from the original artwork. It looks more like the Croft from the 'reboot' 2018 film.
Why does the page state that Legend was a reboot? I don't think it was ever confirmed as a reboot, and that the only reboot we do have is the 2013 game, Tomb Raider.
Jimbob2014 (talk) 14:51, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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The article's infobox has Lara Croft's current appearance, but I think it would also be useful for the article to include somewhere a screenshot or promotional render of Lara's original appearance from the first Tomb Raider game.108.46.147.132 (talk) 01:08, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a volunteer photographer for Wikipedia/Commons - this past weekend I went looking for the blue plaque mentioned in Lara Croft#Cultural impact so I could take a photo for the article. I visited the site of the former company headquarters at 55 Ashbourne Road in Derby, which is now a block of flats. There's no sign of a blue plaque; I walked around the property looking for one. (Possibly interesting is that a new building next door is now called "Croft House".) I sent an e-mail to the property developers who put up the original blue plaque a few days ago but haven't got a response. Some inquiries among locals got the response that the blue plaque has been "AWOL" since the old building was demolished and the flats were built. Kellyhi!19:45, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Original research: Rhianna Pratchett's new Lara Croft is neither beautiful, nor intelligent, nor athletic[edit]
The lede states that "she is presented as a beautiful, intelligent, and athletic" woman. This is undoubtedly true for Toby Gard's Lara Croft of the 1996-2009 series, who is a beautiful, intelligent and athletic Caucasoid woman. Unfortunately, Rhianna Pratchett's Lara Croft who has taken the place of the previous Lara in the post-2013 rebooted series has neither of those qualities. She is a mediocre-beauty South American/South Italian childish girl (she doesn't have the physical and facial features of a Caucasian woman). So, the statement in the lede needs to be appropritely attributed to the "beautiful, intelligent and athletic" old Lara Croft, especially since the image in the right-side template shows the new South American/South Italian petite new Lara Croft. Otherwise, it should be removed altogether.
The article should clearly describe the established, explicit difference between Toby Gard's Lara Croft and Rhianna Pratchett's "new Lara Croft".
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Borrowing this section. I noticed that there had been an absence of an infobox image, and decided to be bold and add a new image to it, depicting her pre-reboot design. I feel that we should not be so inclined to rush to use a new image, as being more recent does not necessarily mean that the image is more well-known and/or recognizable than what was there previously. For example, if we had, say, Ocarina of Time Link in the infobox of Link (The Legend of Zelda), we wouldn't replace this depiction with Breath of the Wild Link, because they are notably different. Mario being updated with each game is, in my opinion, unnecessary as there's not many changes, but it doesn't really make a difference as a result. Certain articles update the image in the infobox, but other article do not. For example, Princess Zelda's image is from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, and Samus Aran's is from Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. In turn, Mario changing images doesn't, by itself, justify updating the image with each game release. - New Age Retro Hippie(talk)(contributions)13:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Lara's classic appearance is already present in the article (the Computerspielemuseum image). Thus, yet another image of her original design violates WP:NFCC #1.
You haven't proven that her "classic" appearance is more well-known or recognizable than the 2013 one - since the 2013 image was in the article before, that burden lies with you.
The 2013 version clearly depicts the character in a more detailed fashion than the '96 version, so, all things equal, it should be included in the infobox by virtue of quality. In your Zelda and Mario examples, the characters' appearance have remain generally unchanged and their earlier artworks are not inferior in terms of artistry or quality. This is not the case with Lara here.
Her 2013 appearance is more representative generally of the character as a whole. For example, Lara's appearances in the films are much more similar to her '13 appearance than her '96 one. While I will freely admit that this argument is a bit WP:SYNTH-ish, I am appealing for a bit of common sense here.
Zelda changes pretty frequently, actually. Off the top of my head, the only canon Zelda design that have been the same across multiple games have been The Wind Waker's design. But that is moot. Indeed, the infobox hasn't used an image for months, so I don't reckon that there's a burden to demonstrate that classic Lara is the most prominent. I'm also not convinced by the argument of low quality; the 1996 Lara Croft is not herself "low quality" but low poly. As far as the film argument goes, I could see that for the more recent one, but the first Tomb Raider films were definitely more similar to classic Lara. [5] Perhaps we should seek consensus by mentioning the discussion on WT:VG. - New Age Retro Hippie(talk)(contributions)14:02, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would argue that low quality = low poly though. It ultimately makes defining features of the character harder to see, especially when we could be doing better with the 2013 image - or at least official character artwork, and not an in-game character. Satellizer el Bridget(Talk)11:03, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not trying to add trouble but how is the image from the German museum of OC Lara "Free"? The photo is clearly of the copyrighted appearance of Lara, which makes it a derivative work of (Presumably) Squeenix at this point. --Masem (t) 14:09, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note that I have looked at FOP issues for Germany, and while they are more lax for outside artwork, internal artwork is still subject to normal copyright. This appears "inside" the museum, so it is more and more looking non-free. --Masem (t) 14:17, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'll tag it for deletion at commons, just to make sure I'm reading things right. If it is a valid free image, great, but I doubt it. --Masem (t) 14:28, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@New Age Retro Hippie: Look, I've been thinking about this for a bit, and it is true that her classic appearance is quite well-known (though I would still say that whether it's more well-known compared to her 2013 reincarnation is debatable). However, I think I've found a good compromise on this - what do you think of this image: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bf/58/99/bf58991bc14b14bdb848d148d3e104c9.jpg? If my memory serves me right, this was the original lead image waaaaay back, before the 2013 image was put in in 2013. It is:
of classic Lara,
but is of high quality,
and solves the low-poly issue - it is official promotional character artwork, instead of just her in-game character model.
When one brings their mouse cursor over a link to this page, the little drop down box appears, however the currently chose infobox image is centered around her waist, giving the unfortunate image of simply a lower body and exposed legs. I really don't think it looks very good. I understand theres been some difficulty over this image before, but i would like to see a different image. DParkinson1 (talk) 18:08, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
the article currently has one line saying who is going to voice her in an upcoming Netflix anime, while not even mentioning the existence of said anime. It simply ends with the MGM rights expiring. --jonas (talk) 18:27, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
YPass, although I removed a little bit regarding the third un-made film which lacked citations, tagged for months.
NFail, lead section shouldn't have citations in it. Awards can be cited in the "Critical Reception" section, thus not requiring them in the lead. Description of plot/theme citations can be put into "Appearances" section, thus not requiring them in the lead.
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