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I personally don't feel the screenshot of 'Fenchurch' is appropriate for her character description, considering that it's from the television series, which was created long before the book 'So Long And Thanks for All the Fish', which is where Fenchurch is properly introduced. In the television series, that character was simply 'the girl with the great idea' who gets vaporized shortly afterwards; I seriously doubt much thought went into her casting. If no one highly disagrees with me, I'm going to remove it. Besides, I'm not so sure we can legally use it anyway. 64.122.56.143 (talk) 03:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article indicates that Agrajag's "final death" occurs in Mostly Harmless. This is not correct; Agragaj's actual final death is in Life, The Universe and Everything in his Cathedral of Hate. Remember Agrajag's horror at discovering that Arthur "(hadn't) been to Stavromula (sic - Stavro Müller) Beta yet" from his perspective at that time. From Agrajag's perspective, his death at the Stavro club was in his past. 71.245.0.11723:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Are they not different spellings of the same characters? Should their sections be merged with a note saying, here it's spelt this way and here it's that way? --20.2.185.817:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, Lunkwill and Fook are the two programmers who ask Deep Thought the Question. Loonquawl and Phouchg recieve the Answer millions of years later. On the other hand, the similarity of names clearly isn't a coincidence, and I think I'm right in saying that on TV they were played by the same actors, so there probably should be some mention of this. Daibhid C (talk) 10:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"absolute kneebiter"?? Although it's funnier (IMO) I must point out that my copy -- "Pan original", 1982, printed in Canada, page 8 -- has "total asshole" 142.177.15.4920:44, 7 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
There's two different versions of LtUaE, one with fictional swear-words and one with real ones. The difference is rather more obvious in the later scene involving the film-maker who won an award for the most gratuitous use of the word "----". --Paul A 05:41, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
This article consists of a lot of information on characters that is only related in that they're all from the same series. True, they're minor characters, but the page is becoming really quite large. I'm wondering if the model from the The Simpsons characters would fit here. An article describes the The Simpsons, then links to a List of characters from The Simpsons. A list of minor characters (or just all characters) from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy would be more useful than the current page, in my opinion. Each character gets its own page with a link back to the list. Any thoughts? --Abqwildcat 22:41, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
OK, let me don my peril-sensistive sunglasses whilst I argue for not using List of characters from The Simpsons as a model for the Hitcher's Guide minor characters. My reasons are:
The number of THHGTTG characters is limited, far more limited than the number of characters in a weekly television series like The Simpsons. The sheer number of characters (growing each week) in the Simpsons necessitates a different approach.
The longest entries in this list, such as Agrajag, Gag Halfrunt and Slartibartfast, are only 3-4 paragraphs long, and so their value as separate articles are questionable, in my opinion.
The shortest entries in this list, such as Eddie, Prosser and the Telephone Sanitisers are so short, they just don't merit separate articles at all.
This page really isn't that long, and because THHGTTG series ended at 5 books -- writer Douglas Adams is dead, after all, and assuming he doesn't reincarnate and start expanding the trilogy to more than 5 books, the list is not likely to grow much longer.
The page isn't generating an automatic, "this page is too long!" message. If and when it does, I'll change my opinion. But for now, I think this page is just fine. Now excuse me while I go have a cup of tea. Kevyn 23:38, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
You make a series of very good points and have honestly convinced me. Unless this page reaches the "too long" barrier according to Wikipedia, let's leave it as is. Should make sure that the other minor characters don't have article entries separate from this page. I'll check on that. Seriously, good points though. I like the page, and hope more characters continue being added. --Abqwildcat 00:10, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I agree with you that the other minor characters should be tracked down and merged into this article. (Example: Eccentrica Gallumbits, mentioned in the article's prologue) For consistency's sake, they should be here, instead of in other articles. And, after they are all merged, if the list looks too long, we'll look at other solutions. Kevyn 04:16, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)
OK, Eccentrica Gallumbits has been merged and redirected into this article. Kevyn 13:10, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It strikes me as odd to have Telephone sanitiser as a character but not the other Golgafrinchams, like the Captain, Number One, Number Two, Agda and Mella. Telephone sanitiser isn't even one special character, just a profession. Should we create a heading "The Golgafrinchams" and then list all those lesser characters as bullets under it or create a new heading for each of the Golgafrinchams? In any case I think that Telephone sanitiser should be removed. ZeroOne 12:31, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
There is a simple reason why Telephone sanitiser is listed, while none of the other Golgafrinchams are: no one has bothered to write anything about the others yet. If you would like to see information about them here, then I encourage you to write about them.
I can support your idea of making a new heading for Golgafrinchams, and then writing about the characters under that heading. Personally, I would move the Telephone sanitiser listing to under the new heading.
However, I disagree that Telephone sanitiser should be removed altogether, even though it is a group of characters, as opposed to a single one. My rationale is simply that, a) someone has taken the time to document them here, and b) they are unique characters, emblematic of the kinds of idiosyncratic characters Douglas Adams created. Kevyn 14:36, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
OK, I created a new heading for the Golgafrinchams and added the ones I listed. ZeroOne 19:47, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I'm fine with the recent change, but since you asked why a section on a concept was in an article about characters, I'll answer.
This page was once at a different title, Concepts and minor characters from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. See my talk page; that title was actually chosen to accommodate the telephone sanitizer stuff after User:Tim Starling suggested that the page title be broadened to allow the telephone sanitizer stuff to go in there instead of being a separate article. Lucky Wizard 05:40, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The article claims that Deep Thought's name is a parody of Deep Throat (movie). Does anyone have some evidence to back this up? --Yath 18:47, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Seems much more likely to me that it's a reference to Deep Blue, IBM's famous supercomputer. Unless I can find some evidence of the Deep Throat link I'm going to take it out. McClade 21:48, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC)
Ok, so much for the Deep Blue theory. Turns out Hitchhikers preceeded Deep Blue, and its more widely accepted that Deep Blue was named in honor of Deep Thought. I still don't accept the Deep Throat idea though. McClade 21:54, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC)
InDon't Panic, Adams is quoted as saying "the name is an obvious joke". The only obvious reference I can think of is the Deep Throat one, so I've added it back in. sjorford 09:54, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Not only it is not obvious to the public of this talk page, that's clearly original research, which spread even further to the German wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(Antwort)#cite_ref-1), without any warning (seemingly, according to this process: http://www.xkcd.com/978/). I'm taking the reference out again, while leaving in the link to the talk page. The text I took out is "explaining (on Book Club on BBC Radio 4 in January 2000) this — obviously — as "Deep Throat""; it is incoherent, but it might point out to that BBC show as a source; I'm leaving this here in case somebody wants to investigate. --Blaisorblade (talk) 17:16, 8 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What if the only joke is that the computer thought deeply? I think that's far more obvious joke than some Deep Throat reference. Why would Adams want to refer to Deep Throat? Was he a huge porn film fan or something? Hardly. And even if the reference was to Deep Throat, why wouldn't it be to Deep Throat (Watergate)? --ZeroOne 16:56, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Even more obvious than a porn reference, which doesn't follow from the story at all, is that the computer was amazingly stupid and had no clue whatsoever as to how to answer the question. --Yath 10:37, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
"The name is a very obvious joke" doesn't get any hits on google apart from wikipedia and one other page that doesn't seem to be about HHGG. Doesn't mean it wasn't in the book, though. Andjam03:24, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Trust me, it's in every edition of Don't Panic, and there have been three editions to date. The answer Adams gave has always been a bit ambiguous - I've always thought it was a reference to Watergate, as I didn't figure the movie had the same notoriety in the UK.... --JohnDBuell04:04, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The obvious joke is that computers don't, and cannot, 'think' at all. They can only do what you tell them to. Nothing more, nothing less. That is the joke. I cannot see any connection to Deep Throat other than the word Deep, unless you know something we don't?
First can I state that it is very unlikly that you could get a question given only the answer (And do not claim jepardy, that is a parody of question from answer if anything) so please do not claim the AI is idiotic. It is commical, not idiotic.
Second, what the hell does watergate have to do with the AI? Exactally, it is far more likely that after watching an alien with a 42inch dick shove it down the through of another alien with 42 breasts 42 times he came up with the number then water gate... wth?
Third, since I had to come in the TALK section to figure WTF Deep Throat had in common with Deep Thought (The name is OBVIOUSLY a computer in DEEP THOUGHT...) I am removing the infromation that is unencyclopedia worthy.
There seems to be some minor disagreement between {{HitchhikerCharacters}} which lists Trillian as a major character, and separately lists minor characters. My understanding of the trilogy of 5 leaves me with the understanding that Trillian was not all that minor (certainly less than Zaphod or Arthur, but much more than Zem). Also, Marvin has his own page. Why not Trillian? There's already a disambig page for Trillian which leads to the section on the minor characters page.
As she's the only "minor" character separately listed on the template, I think we should give her her own page. Trillian_(Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) or some such. --ABQCat 19:51, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Agreed, when I made {{HitchhikerCharacters}}, I figured someone would eventually expand Trillian's entry and give her her own page since she is a relatively major character. Ford Prefect (character) is Ford's page, so maybe Trillian (character) is the best place to put her. Although Tricia McMillan might be good too. Just change the relevent links to her entry (: —siroχo
She was moved here from Trillian (fictional character) a year ago, probably because the description was so short. I think her own article could be recreated there. --ZeroOne 20:25, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
It is interesting to note that in the third radio series, when brief clips of Jeltz' voice are played, the clips are from TV and not the earlier radio stories.
This is wrong. In the third radio series, Jeltz says, "This is Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz of the Intergalactic Hyperspace Planning Council. Your planet is scheduled for demolition." This is not exactly what Jeltz says in the TV show, nor could you arrive at the same sound clip by omitting words (you could get the same wording but it wouldn't have the same stress, pitch, timing, etc. of each syllable). It may, however, be the same voice actor, but the voice is uncredited, both in the radio episode and on the BBC website. Anybody know who it is or where the clips may be from? - Furrykef 21:47, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
It's Toby Longworth. All reprises were recorded new (for that lovely 5.1 surround effect). Bill Wallis (original Prosser/Jeltz voice) was unavailable, so Dirk Maggs recast. Toby isn't given a credit for Jeltz until 2005's series #4. All the details are spelled out in the second radio scripts volume. --JohnDBuell | Talk16:56, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
it's stated that it's meant to be rude, but me as a non English native speaker can't figure out what exactly is supposed to be rude about it ... slarty but fast? what's slarty? (clem22:35, 3 May 2005 (UTC))[reply]
I think it's more subtle than that - it just sounds vaguely like it "ought to be" rude. The most obvious reference is to the mildly impolite "fart", but the quoted origin as "Phartiphukborlz" also includes the far worse "fuck" and "balls". "Slartibartfast" itself, though, is of necessity meaningless, due to the general prudishness of the BBC and its listeners; it's just meant to produce childish giggles from anyone trying to take him seriously. - IMSoP15:39, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone else think A) characters from the computer game should be on this list, and B) it should be noted of characters on this list if they appeared in the game? Stev007:23, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps the latter, but I'm having a hard time thinking of examples of newly created characters just for the game (except maybe Marvin's door). --JohnDBuell07:36, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Missing characters we ought to [write] sections about are:
Arthur's boss
Elvis Presley
Gail Andrews
Murray Bost Henson
Mrs Kapelsen
The Lajestic Vantrasheel of Lob
Thor
God
Where does God fit in here? Except for possibly the running Oolon Colluphid jokes? There's already a section for the cat called "The Lord." Also, I'm not sure about paragraphs for Arthur's BBC Boss (except that he was played by the second Hitchhiker radio producer, Geoffrey Perkins), or the Lajestic Vantrasheel of Lob, these seem to be VERY minor characters to me. --JohnDBuell | Talk17:03, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
God makes a personal appearance for His apology message at the end of the fourth book and is referenced quite a few times. Briantist 10:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone remember Fartenfar? I've been searching the web and can find no reference to Fartenfar at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.60.92 (talk) 00:03, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Update on Fartenfar - I was listening to HHGG again a few weeks ago and there it was, Fartenfar is the Priest who marries the Lintila & Alitnil characters!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.155.213 (talk) 09:45, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note to anyone intending on splitting off a section[edit]
This page has been processed by N-Bot, which, for browsing convenience, changes links to redirects to lists to links to the relevant list sections: e.g. [[Hactar]] is changed to [[Minor characters from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy#Hactar|Hactar]].
As a result, anyone who intends to split a section out of this page should be aware that, as of 5 September2005, the following sections were linked to from the following pages:
Such a signature was indeed found in a real life glacier in Norway. Writer Øyvind Myhre was suspected for making it.
My source for the claim is the Sidan 42 the newsletter of the Swedish HHGTTG society.[1] It's not available online. I haven't found any online source, but I guess it was reported much in Norwegian fandom, but it was a bit pre-internet. I haven't manage to find much.[2] // Liftarn
I did do a rather thorough Google search before deleting it. Since it still has no verification, I'd keep it out. At most, maybe you can add "Somebody, as a prank, actually put a large sign that said 'Slartibartfast was here' on a glacier." Stev016:27, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Note to anyone intending on splitting off a section[edit]
This page has been processed by N-Bot, which, for browsing convenience, changes links to redirects to lists to links to the relevant list sections: e.g. [[Hactar]] is changed to [[Minor characters from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy#Hactar|Hactar]].
As a result, anyone who intends to split a section out of this page should be aware that, as of 16 June2006, the following sections were linked to from the following pages:
There's mention of the green UFOs when hitch-hiking is explained, and UFOs that play pranks on humans. Do these have any relation to the green smiley face on the cover?
No, he's the invention of Peter Cross, the artist who did the original covers of the first five Hitchhiker's books in the USA. The 'face' also appears on the US edition of the Radio Scripts book, and the VHS/DVD releases of the TV series. --JohnDBuell03:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps the Earth had been able to calculate the Ultimate Question after all (or whatever skewed perception of it it could have), and Fenchurch's sudden realisation of it was its output; the way that everyone would come to know about it.
A caveat to this theory, however, are that Fenchurch is a Golgafrinchan descendent, and is therefore not part of the Earth's calculation program. However, she still might have been able to recieve the calculation since Arthur may have also calculated something at least resembling the Ultimate Question in "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe" with the Scrabble tiles, possibly implying that the Golgafrinchans may had become integrated into the program in some way after living on the earth since prehistoric times. Other theories could be made, such as they could have cross-bred with the humans before they died out, causing some scraps of the program to be in the offspring. The humans and Golgafrinchans may be too biologically dissimilar for this, but given most of the absurd logic in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, anything could be possible.
Oops, I forgot about the concept of Original Research. That was quite silly of me. I guess a discussion like this is meant to be in a public forum rather than a public information resource. Thanks for correcting me. --UberMan500005:04, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
When the article was merged into this list, there were only four paragraphs, and no photos (and I note that there is still no photo of Richard Vernon). It would be entirely feasible to fork his section back out, but please make notes of everything that links here for Slartibartfast, and move it back to the proper page if it does get forked. Also, if we fork Slarti back off, why not kick the Vogons back out of the "Races and Species" page? Anyone else agree with putting Slartibartfast back on his own page? --JohnDBuell22:23, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure User:Briantist means well, but this article has quickly become fancruft of the worst possible kind. We've gone from a list of characters with actual dialogue to a list of any and ALL characters EVER mentioned anywhere in ANY version of Hitchhiker's. This is not a good idea IMO. I'd like to whittle this back down, and I'm thinking about whittling it back down to characters with dialogue, not just those characters mentioned in passing. --JohnDBuell01:52, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've read these! It says that lists are excluded from the Wikipedia:Article length rule. Briantist 03:14, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I didn't say it wasn't, I'm just saying that at 100k, it might be too much for ANYBODY to want to read, and should we come up with some agreement as to which characters are or are not included? --JohnDBuell03:19, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with having a 'minor characters' page for Hitch Hikers is that when there is clearly over 100 of them isn't really a list you would want to read, but you may wish to refer to. DNA put a lot of effort into every line and trying to unpick the list is going to a very subjective take on what is relevant. For example, Trin Tragular was quoted the other day on The Material World on Radio 4 a few weeks ago[4]. I thought this page could be used as a reference for someone trying to get to grips with the whole HH concept, given its myriad of versions (books, radio shows, re-recording of radio shows, TV, movie, book readings, computer games) it seems better to have a complete list to refer to, rather than deciding (as Adams hated) that there was a 'cannon'. Briantist 03:30, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Also there are characters WITH dialogue but without names such as the protitute outside the Old Pink Dog bar and the raffle-ticket selling woman, who are not listed because they don't have names. Briantist 02:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
What exactly do you have against the entry you keep deleteing, viz:
President of the Imperial Galactic Government
Much to his irritation, many milllenia ago, in his dying moments he was put into a statis field, which means all his heirs are dead, which renders the Imperial title anachronistic. The replacement - and not imperial - presidents job (as filled by Zaphod Beeblebrox and Yooden Vranx) is not to order the levers of democratic power but to to draw attention away from it. This is explained in the first novel, and appears in the Secondary Phase. Not to be confused with the Ruler of the Universe.
? Briantist 02:50, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
It's incorrect! Zaphod, and Yooden before him were Presidents of the Imperial Galactic Government, in the series. They both are listed. The Emperor was the person put into the stasis field. It may not be clear unless you have a copy of the original script book. The story is originally explained in Fit the Ninth. --JohnDBuell02:56, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Good grief, I meant Emperor of the Imperial Galactic Government Briantist 03:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
It's still implied in the radio series AND novels that the Emperor, the Old Man in the Shack, and the Ruler of the Universe are one and the same person. --JohnDBuell03:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've NEVER heard that implication before. It is said of the Emperor that he was put in stasis in last moments of his dying coma. This is different from the Old Man in the Shack, who is clearly alive, if only in the moment, and Trillian says "we must have come to the wrong place. You can't rule the Universe from a shack." There is never any suggestion that this character is the Emperor. Briantist 03:20, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Why else would Zaphod have planned to break the conspiracy with his great-grandfather, Zarniwoop and Yooden Vranx to get to a man protected by a field that could only be reached using the Infinite Improbability Drive Ship, while the Emperor had been previously described as "locked in a perpetual stasis field" if they weren't meant to be the same person? I don't know of anyone who's ever thought of them as NOT the same person. --JohnDBuell03:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC seem to make a subtle but specific annotation to his title, namely "reluctant":
The Man in the Shack is the reluctant Ruler of the Universe.
He lives in a Shack in the "middle of nowhere" with "what appears to be a cat."
He has named the cat "the Lord".
He has no interest in ruling the universe and is not even sure he believes it exists.
He only believes in what she senses with his eyes and ears, though he is not too sure about that either.
Every now and then men in six black spaceships come ask him questions or sing to his cat, he is not sure which.
His answers impact on the "fate of millions of people".
I have never come accross anyone who has conflated these characters together. It states quite clearly (radio, book) that the Emperor of THE GALAXY was locked in the "perpetual stasis field" in his dying moments, whereas the guide says before we arrive at the shack of the ruler of the UNIVERSE, "who can possibly rule if no one who wants to can be allowed to?" which would negate someone who is a) almost dead and b) Emperor!!! Briantist 03:34, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
The man in the shack is 'nowhere, that could ever be found, since it is protected by a vast field of unprobability' - this isn't a perpetual stasis field Briantist 03:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
No, you have conflated them! Remeber that the Emperor was in a coma, in his last dying moments. But he must still have been on view to prove to his ofspring and their prodigny that he wasn't yet dead, and also he is still not dead - his is STILL the Emperor. A stasis field is similar to the slow-time envelope used to lock away Kricket, whereas the unprobability field is different, as the Guide Mark 2.0 points out, If you'd like to know, I can tell you that in your universe you move freely in three dimensions that you call space. You move in a straight line in a fourth, which you call time, and stay rooted to one place in a fifth, which is the first fundamental of probability. After that it gets a hit complicated, and there's all sorts of stuff going on in dimensions 13 to 22 that you really wouldn't want to know about.. (the point being that up-down is one dimension, left-right another, in-out a third, TIME is a fourth - being held in it requires STASIS FIELD, and probability is a separate dimension where IMPROABABLE and UNPROBABLE things happen). QED.
Basically you have taken two separate plot points and joined them together. The first is an interesting riff of the principle of heredity (and being a British republican it is a point I don't take lightly) and the second is a point about 'if no-one who want to take power should be allowed to do so' the answer turns out that it has to be someone who is a an extreme form of Existentialism. In effect, he thinks, therefore he is. It's not funny otherwise, surely? Briantist 04:58, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Then why the whole big deal about The Imperial President being a rung or two down the ladder of power while the Emperor still lived, and why was it so important that Zarniwoop and Zaphod find who's really ruling things? He's never actually called the "Ruler of the Universe" - Zarniwoop asks him if he does and he says "I try not to." --JohnDBuell03:37, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Because is is a simple play on the idea of British Parliamentary democracy! It says that "All his heirs are now long dead, and this means that without any drastic political upheaval, power has simply and effectively moved a rung or two down the ladder," which implies that none of his ofspring could become Emperor so they went for a presidential system instead. The second book says "The ruler of the Universe dozed lightly in his chair" it's in the book!!! I don't get where you think that this person is The Emperor???? Briantist 03:45, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
People only resort to that weak argument when they all the others have fallen. It's used five times in the chapter, and the character provides descriptions of how it happens. Talking unprompted to his cat he says When the men come, or when in my mind the men come in their six black ships, do they come in your mind too? and And when I hear their questions, do you hear questions? What do their voices mean to you? and There's mud on the floor, cigarettes and whisky on the table, fish on a plate for you and a memory of them in my mind. And look what else they've left me Crosswords, dictionaries, and a calculator.I think I must be right in thinking they ask me questions If you cannot belive the narative at this point, when can you? Briantist 05:15, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Also in fit the twelth the Guide says Who can rule the Universe if no-one who wants to can be allowed to and the next line is the man in the shack. Briantist 05:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry but I disagree. I think it trifles too much with Adams's sense of humor and use of simple narrative devices he was obviously familiar with to read it so literally. Take a poll if you want to - go on to douglasadams.se or hhgttginfo.com. But I know I can NOT be the only one who has thought this way. --JohnDBuell05:32, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You can find no evidence for your POV so you want to put it to a vote? Very ironic in the circumstances! Briantist 13:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't say a vote at all - Perhaps someone has interview material somewhere, where the two ideas are compared. But we won't know unless we take this outside of this forum. Seeking outside opinions is the standard way of trying to settle any dispute/edit war between two editors, though it's harder to do with possible interpretations of fiction. At any rate, if you re-create an entry for the character, don't simply copy and paste what you had before, please, it still wasn't entirely accurate (you were still calling Zaphod and Yooden successors to the office of president, when in fact they were not, they were the Imperial Galactic Presidents). And further, it appears that the old man on the asteroid in the whole Trin Tragula sequence has also already been compared to the "Ruler of the Universe", so there is unintended precedent. --JohnDBuell16:58, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You said "Take a poll if you want to", not me. Briantist 21:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Right, I'll try again then... What the book says is...
The hereditary Emperor is nearly dead and has been so for many centuries. In the last moments of his dying coma he was locked in a statis field which keeps him in a state of perpetual unchangingness. All his heirs are now long dead, and this means that without any drastic political upheaval, power has simply and effectively moved a rung or two down the ladder, and is now seen to be vested in a body which used to act simply as advisers to the Emperor - an elected Governmental assembly headed by a President elected by that assembly. In fact it vests in no such place.
then
Very very few people realize that the President and the Government have virtually no power at all, and of these very few people only six know whence ultimate political power is wielded.
then
One of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
And so this is the situation we find: a succession of Galactic Presidents who so much enjoy the fun and palaver of being in power that they very rarely notice that they're not.
And somewhere in the shadows behind them - who? Who can possibly rule if no one who wants to do it can be allowed to?
then
On a small obscure world somewhere in the middle of nowhere in particular - nowhere, that is, that could ever be found, since it is protected by a vast field of unprobability to which only six men in this galaxy have a key - it was raining.
Right, so as power "vests in no such place" as the Imperial government - now or before the Emperor was in stasis - then the real Ruler is not part of the Imperial government. The Emperor is in a coma in stasis somewhere. The Ruler of the Universe is neither in stasis nor in a coma. They're not the same person: the book doesn't say so, and neither does any reliable secondary source. Robin Johnson(talk)21:45, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Given that the Bowl of Petunias Agrajag's only thought was "Oh no not again," it seems likely that the whale was also Agrajag. Not so?
No, the whale has its own, independent thoughts as it falls to Magrathea. Further, there's no indication in the Cathedral of Hate that the whale was another incarnation of Agrajag. --JohnDBuell23:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In actual fact, "Oh no, not again" is a four-word summary of the philosophy of Buddism, another crafty atheist view of a religion. Briantist 10:39, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I can call anyone my spirit brother. That's not the same thing as being one and the same being. Nowhere is that implied in the text - there are two missiles: one becomes a sperm whale, the other becomes a bowl of petunias, and later that joke is expanded to become one of the incarnations of Agrajag. --JohnDBuell16:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Agrajag is the petunias and the whale (both expansions of the joke). His account of the petunias story ends with: "In, I might add, the fresh wreckage of a whale. My spirit brother." What else does that mean, in this context? Robin Johnson(talk)16:59, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
They're twins, of a sort, created at the same time in the same space, by the Infinite Improbability Drive. I'd be certain that if Adams had MEANT them to be two aspects of the same being, he would have very clearly written as much. --JohnDBuell17:04, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that he did clearly write as much when he wrote "My spirit brother". It's the punchline of the story. (It might be worth listening to this episode of radio series 3, in which Adams voices Agrajag. If there is some extra anger or emphasis on these words, that makes them more of a punchline, which would leave me all the more convinced. I'm not sure where my CD is though...) Robin Johnson(talk)17:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have a copy of the same series. And I still disagree. The joke was in finally giving a second explanation of "Oh no, not again," which wasn't present when the first radio series was written, not in saying that the whale AND the petunias were the same being. --JohnDBuell17:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The explanation of "oh no, not again" is one joke, and the "I might add" addition of the fact that the whale was also an Agrajag is another, a sort of piled-up punchline. I see it's not as absolutely clear as I'd thought, so maybe not article matieral. A google search (on groups as well as the web) shows that this argument has come up a few times before, but not apparently anywhere that would be worth referencing. Robin Johnson(talk)17:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have to say that my understanding is that the Whale and the Bowl of Petunias are two parallel views of a very short existance. The Whale gets all metaphysical in his fall from the sky, whereas the Bowl of Petunias has a Buddist view of the world ("oh no not again!"). I have to say that I almost cried when I first read the Agrajag's section in the third book, as it's such a shocking suprise, IMHO. The fact that Agrajag had reincarnated so many times continued the Buddist theme, especially the reference to coming to life as a fly and being squatted as a common view of "extreme" Buddists is that they wear masks so they don't have to squat flies. Briantist 17:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Also, the list of things that Agrajag has been incarnated as are listed, a cow .. a fish .. a rabbit, a fly, a wishbone, a flea ... stamping on ants and "I was at a cricket match! I had a weak heart condition". and " at Stavromula Beta and someone tried to assassinate you " which DOES NOT INCLUDE A WHALE... Briantist 17:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
There's no reason to believe that that all his incarnations would be explicitly mentioned, though. I accept that there is not consensus to put this in the article. But I'm sure I'm right. Robin Johnson(talk)20:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's an interesting idea, but I'm not convinced. I can accept that time-travel has all sorts of wacky effects on reincarnation (Agrajag's last life occuring "before" Arthur kills him at Mueller's), but I have a hard time imagining the same spirit being incarnated in two bodies simultaneously. Also, doesn't Agrajag say he'd decided not to reincarnate, but the Infinite Improbability Drive pulls him back to be the bowl of petunias? He's particularly angry about this, so if it also pulled him back to be the whale, you'd think he'd mention it more explicitly (and at no point does he refer to any other incarnation as a "spirit brother", they're all "I"). And by this point he's got a good idea of what's going on (hence thinking "Oh no, not again!") whereas the whale has no idea about anything (last thought "I wonder if it (the ground) will be friends with me?") I just can't make it fit. Daibhid C (talk) 11:02, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've just finished the classic 1972 novel When H.A.R.L.I.E. Was One which tells of a super-intelligent computer built to answer anything put to it, which in turn designs an even bigger "G.O.D. computer" to provide the answer to the "ultimate question." Yes -- that language is used, and there's no mention of what the "ultimate question" is. Sound familiar? I wonder if there's any source to show that Gerrold's earlier book was the influence for Adams's Deep Thought? --LeflymanTalk23:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's possible, I suppose, but the idea of computers that can create other computers and computers that ponder the greatest questions are a common sci-fi theme. I don't think Adams was ever quoted on the link you make, which is what is required for Wikipedia inclusion. Briantist 00:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I didn't make a link. I was looking for someone who might have come across a mention of the inspiration for Deep Thought -- since much of H2G2 is clearly a parody of "serious" SF works, and Gerrold's book was fairly well-known. The only earlier version I can think of is in Asimov's 1956 short story The Last Question, in which the "Cosmic AC" becomes the (re)creator of the universe. But the question in Asmov's story is explicit (and, as per Isaac's vocation) scientifically-minded, "How do we reverse the second law of thermodynamics?" Whereas in Gerrold's-- like Adams's-- it is framed as the philosophical "ultimate question". HARLIE hints that the question is something like "Is there a God?" or "What is man's purpose?"--LeflymanTalk00:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is also the 1966 Doctor Who episode The War Machines which features another such computer (WOTAN, Will Operating Thought ANalogue) in the London Post Office Tower (newly opened then, now the BT Tower). Also, EARNIE, the computer that picks the Premium Bond winners dates back to 1957. Briantist 09:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
It has been pointed out that Adams was not "well-versed" in Science Fiction at the time he first wrote Hitchhiker's - this is a point that was brought up by at least two of his biographers. This tends to negate the possibility of such links. --JohnDBuell18:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's true. Adams said he wasn't into computers until he bought one of the first Apple Mac's in the UK (Stephen Fry bought the other, aparently). My comment about EARNIE was to point that there was a well-known "supercomputer" with a similar name to HARLIE that predated the book by fifteen years. Briantist 18:17, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm definitely not discounting supercomputers in SF as being a staple -- but all the previous incarnations you mention didn't design their "successors" to answer the "ultimate question." The standard cliche was that computers were dangerous when they got too smart or are given the wrong instructions. One need only look to HAL 9000, or the numerous Star Trek computers that went crazy-- i.e. The Ultimate ComputerThe Changeling (which featured Nomad, the protype for the first Trek movie's V'ger), That Which Survives, A Taste of Armageddon. Gerrold had been a writer on Trek, and a big SF fan, so he was familiar with the "deadly computer" concept. However, even if Adams were not well-versed doesn't necessarily mean he might not have picked up the idea of Deep Thought from Gerrold's HARLIE. The question is, has anyone else ever brought this up? By the way, the name "HARLIE" was an homage to Harlan Ellison.--LeflymanTalk19:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is no evidence for it. Two points: 1) most computers are designed by other computers. Back in the 1970s you used a "cross compiler" on one system to create the compiler for a machine designed on new hardware and microprocessors are designed on CAD systems; 2) Deep Thought does not create a GOD computer, but a software emulation of an evolutionary system. The ultimate question is, in effect, "how do you tell if your life is real or a software emulation". Briantist 20:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I understand all that. But what you're referring to isn't really evidence of what I'm asking; whether CAD programs were used to design computers is kind of beside the point. I think you might still be missing the basic point: has anyone come across something which specifically tells where Adams got the idea for Deep Thought? As I said, even if Adams weren't knowledgeable about SF, clearly his work is a parody of it, and draws from some of the staple elements. It might help to understand where I'm coming from if you can find Gerrold's book-- which was revised into a 2.0 version in 1988. (I read the earlier version). For example, HARLIE's "G.O.D" (Graphic Omnicient Device) computer was intended to model existence, to answer the ultimate question, just as Deep Thought's "Earth" computer was. See, for example, this exchange from pages 86-88: (Apologies for the all-caps; that's how it's set.)
[Harlie]: "...THEREFORE, I MUST FIND GOD. THAT IS THE TASK I HAVE SET MYSELF. IT IS SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE DONE BY HUMAN BEINGS, ELSE THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT BY NOW.
"UM," said Auberson. THAT'S QUITE A TASK.
I HAVE GIVEN IT MUCH THOUGHT.
I'M SURE YOU HAVE. HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO DO IT?
THAT IS WHAT I HAVE THOUGHT THE MOST ABOUT. IT TOOK ME ONLY TWO MINUTES TO DECIDE ON MY GOAL. IT HAS TAKEN ME TWO DAYS TO DECIDE HOW TO GET THERE.
WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG?...<snip>
IS SUCH A PROJECT REALLY FEASIBLE?
MY PRELIMINARY CALCULATIONS SHOW THAT IT IS. IF SO, IT WILL PROVIDE THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION.
WHICH QUESTION?
ANY OF THEM. ALL OF THEM. BUT SPECIFICALLY, "WHAT IS YOUR PURPOSE?" IT WAS MY QUESTION ONCE, BUT YOUR REACTION HAS SHOWN THAT IT IS REALLY YOUR QUESTION....I AM GOING TO SOLVE THE ULTIMATE PROBLEM.
Again, as I already noted immediately prior: the capitals are how the text is actually set. I'm providing the source material in its original typography. So please, thank you ever so much not to point out netiquette when you haven't bothered to note my caveat prior to the text.--LeflymanTalk23:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So it says "Ultimate Problem" which is quite different to:
"O Deep Thought Computer," he said, "the task we have designed you to perform is this. We want you to tell us ..." he paused, "... the Answer!"
"The answer?" said Deep Thought. "The answer to what?"
"Life!" urged Fook.
"The Universe!" said Lunkwill.
"Everything!" they said in chorus.
...
"All I wanted to say," bellowed the computer, "is that my circuits are now irrevocably committed to calculating the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything -" he paused and satisfied himself that he now had everyone's attention, before continuing more quietly, "but the programme will take me a little while to run."
Lunkwill and Fook don't ask for the "Ultimate" anything and Deep Thought only make one mention of the word Ultimate. Can I suggest that you read both text when making comparisons? Briantist 01:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Your literary insight is profound. Clearly the answer to "Ultimate Questions" is entirely different than the answer to the "Ultimate Problem". How confused I must be to have ever imagined that there was any similarity. I might also have pointed out that HARLIE's "G.O.D. computer" was expected to take so long formulating the "solution" posed to it that mankind would likely no longer be around.--LeflymanTalk23:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, neither you, nor I have provided "proof" of anything. Nor have I injected any Original research. I posed a question (repeatedly) as to whether there was any source on the origin of Deep Thought-- which had likewise been discussed much earlier above-- and suggested that one might have a basis to see if Gerrold's 1972 book was an influence. The discussion might have been closed much earlier by simply saying, "I've never seen anything of the sort"; or, '"Adams never discussed it." Geeminy, and some say I'm protective and dismissive on articles I edit.--LeflymanTalk17:53, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
2. Factually accurate?: Unsure; it's not easily comprehensible to someone not very familiar with the books, and inline citations (preferably) on all radio voicings, all television voicings, all movie portrayals.
3. Broad in coverage?: There's a lot of trivia and info about the book that is unnecessary. Some character listed are too minor even for this list. Reevaluate all the characters in this list; a good number are wasting the Megabytes. There's also a good bit of Original Research in places, particularly in the section on the triple breasted woman.
4. Neutral point of view?: For the most part. However, it's very much written in an in universe perspective, and that needs to be changed.
5. Article stability? Yes. I see no stability problems.
6. Images?: Images are in good places, and are properly tagged.
"Colluphid is not based on Adams's friend, evolutionary biologist and popular science writer Richard Dawkins, known for his assertive atheist and antitheist writings, despite the contrary belief[citation needed] held by some fans of either author. Adams stated in an interview with American Atheists that he had not read any of Dawkins's books until his 'early thirties' (after 1982), four years after the character was created.[6]"
BELIEF? help by fans of either author? Isn't the whole point of being an Athiest you don't go around believing things, certainly without evidence? BRIANTIST (talk)08:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, someone went and edited the text to assert the false claim that Colluphid IS based on Dawkins. THAT's the "contrary belief." Probably just need to cite something in Google groups, or an old afda FAQ. --JohnDBuell12:28, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I know I'm re-opening an old debate, but just to set the record straight: the whole point of being an Athiest is that you don't go around believing in any God or Gods. You can go around believing other things without evidence if you like, just not in any Gods. P Ingerson (talk) 16:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fair use rationale for Image:Fenchurch from TV Series.jpg[edit]
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Fair use rationale for Image:Eric Von Contrick.ogg[edit]
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I've done this. I hope it's OK. But why the hell couldn't you do it yourself instead of posting here and asking us to do it? It would get done much quicker and much more efficiently if it was done by someone who actually knew about Fair Use Rationales! And this is the third time in a row that you've exepcted other people to do it for you! P Ingerson (talk) 06:51, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fair use rationale for Image:God (Non-Existance of).jpg[edit]
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Fair use rationale for Image:Shooty and bang bang.jpg[edit]
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There is an extant but extremely obscure recording that purports to be of Disaster Area's music, released on the B-side of the early 80's single (I think it was BBC Records) of the H2G2 theme music. I bought the record back in the day when I was around 10 years old, and still own it. I no longer own a record player, however, and so am not in a position to convert the thing from analogue to digital. But although I haven't listened to the song in years, I still remember it - a quite catchy, nasally-sung fast-paced sort of pop-metal number with a lot of massed guitars, an extended moody coda with many synth pings and almost entirely indecipherable lyrics, called 'Only The End Of The World Again'. I will bet money that this song title was the source of the celebrated Neil Gaimanstory of the same name, given that Gaiman literally wrote a book about H2G2.
Insofar as I can remember the lyrics, they went like this (I haven't listened to the record in well over 15 years, and I've forgotten the entire first verse):
(Forgotten the first line of verse 2 which I could never make out anyway) /
Your daddy wasn't (indecipherable), I love you so /
You make me want to scream and shout /
You never let me get too close /
(Bridge)
(Another line I could never make out) /
But all I ever got was teenage lies /
Lover, don't panic /
Baby, don't panic /
I'll take you down the road where the moon explodes /
(Chorus)
It's only the end of the world again /
Only the end of the world again /
Only the end of the world again /
Again, again /
Again, again /
(There was another verse. At least one.)
Like I say, I still own the record so if anyone in the Dublin, Ireland area has vinyl restoration facilities and analogue-to-digital conversion software, the full lyrics could perhaps be transcribed and Disaster Area's recorded legacy could be given back to the world. In the meantime, I will scan the record label to prove that I'm not just making all this up. Lexo (talk) 00:20, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It would indeed be in breach of copyright and I would certainly not endorse any such attempt to make such a recording available. However, I have managed to transfer the original into digital form and a full transcription of the lyrics will shortly be available. Lexo (talk) 22:33, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not entirely sure about this, but aren't Number One and the management consultant the same character in the radio series? They're played by the same actor, with (as far as I remember) the same voice, and when the Captain is describing the sort of people in the B-ark's hold, we get the following interjections from Number Two and Number One:
ARTHUR:
You really mean you’ve got a hold full of frozen hairdressers?
CAPTAIN:
Oh yes. Millions of them! Hairdressers, tired T.V. producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers…
Eccentrica Gallumbits does not appear in the movie[edit]
The section on eccentrica claims that the large legs seen arguing with ford on viltvodle VI is eccentrica gallumbits. However, there is no reference to whom the legs belong to at all, ford's dialogue is:
ford: of course not... that... that's ridiculous. I... I've been stranded on a... a strange planet for a number of years, I haven't been avoiding you. You look great, you're doing well... you've grown... obviously...
Image copyright problem with Image:Reg Nullify.ogg[edit]
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This section appears to have been vandalised, with comments on that vandalistion also appearing in bold. It's simple-minded "War on Terror" nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.3.227.107 (talk) 14:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Request for comment on articles for individual television episodes and characters[edit]
I have actually met a telephone sanitizer. In the late 1970s I worked for a large British engineering company called Molins Ltd. The Deptford site where I worked had about 1000 employees. Periodically, a woman would come to my office and sanitize my telephones. She was a contractor; she did nothing else except go around companies sanitizing their telephones. In view of this I question whether the section on the Telephone Sanitizer should concentrate so much on early 1920s toilet and bathroom cleaners. Telephone Sanitizer is a real job. HairyWombat (talk) 20:48, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would think that toilet and bathroom cleaners -- or indeed anyone employed as a cleaner -- would have been on the hypothetical "C" ark, under the category of those who "do the actual work." They are definitely not part of the "useless middle third" of society. Of course, as the other two-thirds of the Golgafrinchans eventually learned (as they were expiring), the telephone sanitizers probably should have been put in category "C" as well. Neutron (talk) 18:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"the telephone sanitizers probably should have been put in category "C" as well" -I thought the implication is that disinfecting the telephones is what bred the virilent disease. 192.232.130.71 (talk) 05:59, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I took out the sentence that says Number Two "had probably been employed as a security guard on Golgafrincham." Not only is it unsourced and apparently pure speculation, but it seems unlikely in light of Number Two's mention of what his "commanding officer" had told him about the impending fate of their planet. From the context, he is clearly talking about his former commanding officer back on Golgafrincham, not the captain of the "B" ark. Security guards generally don't have "commanding officers" to my knowledge. Military personnel and police officers generally do, so it is more likely that he was one of those. (My assumption has always been that he was a lower-level military officer, possibly in a non-combat role that Adams judged to be in the "useless middle third", while his commanding officer (who obviously was not going on the "B" ark) might have been considered one of the "great leaders" and therefore assigned to the non-existent "A" ark. But such speculation does not belong in the article.) Neutron (talk) 19:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article currently refers to the "Googleplex Star Thinker", but I think it should be "Googolplex Star Thinker". Have I spotted a mistake, or is this right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.171.29 (talk) 01:48, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The original book, published in 1979, uses Googleplex (chapter 25 (p127 in the first edition)). The search engine (which started as "Back-Rub" in 1996) changed its name to Google in 1997. Arjayay (talk) 15:05, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This was played by Arthur Smith. I thought this might be Arthur Smith (comedian), so I e-mailed him in April 2010. Arthur replied, "No I'm pretty sure it wasn't me - though I have been a barman or two ioj my time arthur". There don't seem to be any other likely contenders on the disambiguation page, so the name should remain unlinked. HairyWombat (talk) 22:17, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think the apperance of Douglas's characters in somebody else's book shouldn't be included in this list. Further, characters from AAT shouldn't appear in this list of characters created by Douglas Adams!
Why is this important? Some people like the Eoin Colfer novel and have adopted his book into the trilogy. However, for others (such as myself) I think his book is sacrilege and that he should be fed to the ravenous BBBofT. This is very strong sentiment! — Preceding unsigned comment added by GrumpyFlumps (talk • contribs) 22:41, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You may be right. And I would normally agree that "outside" references have no place here.
Not to mention the numerous characters in extended-universe Star Trek, Star Wars and Doctor Who works, or characters relating to post-book Sherlock Holmes and Dracula stories. If their new characters "count" then so does any new character in And Another Thing, regardless of whether we liked or hated the book. Sophie means wisdom (talk) 19:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
But the lede currently says:-
"The following is an alphabetical list of the minor characters in the various versions of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams."
It does not say
"Douglas Adams, Eoin Colfer and other writers"
Nor does not say
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series, originally created by Douglas Adams"
Paul Neil Milne Johnstone of Redbridge, Essex AKA Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings of Greenbridge, Essex[edit]
This section title, which was as above, is so long it distorts the whole of the contents panel.
On my normal settings I am left with about 20 characters to the left of the contents box so Agrajag runs the whole length of the contents box and then jumps to full width beneath. I do not recall the character ever being called the double title, including the AKA, but originally appeared as Paul.... before becoming Paula...
I have, therefore, been WP:BOLD and shortened the section title to just:-
I see no proof that "The Deep Thought episode appears to be a parody of a short story by Frederic Brown, Answer." and the citation is to a blog that doesn't support that claim. It's an opinion. (And doesn't every one have a opinion on which science fiction super computer Deep Thought was modeled after making it all the more likely he modeled it after the idea of a science fiction super computer rather than any particular one?) Anyways, I think it would be appropriate if someone with better Wiki editing skills than me would remove that line.
Hklbry (talk) 06:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The following non-WP:TOPIC material was in the article, "Johnstone went on to achieve moderate prominence in the poetry world as an editor and festival organiser, including the 1977 Cambridge Poetry Festival.[17]" This had nothing to do with the 'List of minor.. characters," so I deleted it. It was re-inserted. Bios and resumes of non-TOPIC people should not appear here. Student7 (talk) 17:01, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
WP:STATUSQUO applies here. Article is about fictional characters. If real characters are there, we've strayed from the intent of the article. More importantly, we do not care nor should not care what a real person thinks about our article. We are not trying to avoid hurt feelings. We are, or should be, trying to construct a (difficult) article about obscure fictional characters. If we drift too far towards reality, that becomes just one more problem we have to cope with. Student7 (talk) 20:20, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't entirely agree, as the origins of a fictional character can be important. Look at articles on, say, certain Dickens novels, which relate the characters and storylines to Dickens' own life. If, as in this case, a fictional character is based upon a real person who the author knew well, from School and University, that is worth noting, as is the name change following the real person's complaint.
In this case the fictional character is "sending up" the real person as the two authors were in competition; sharing a prize, and both receiving Exhibitions to study English at Cambridge. The fact that Johnstone organized the 1977 Cambridge Poetry Festival, is interesting, as Adams was writing the radio script, which included Johnstone's "real" name and address, at this time.
I don't think Johnstone was notable enough to merit his own Wikipedia article, but do think this information is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia - the problem is, where should it be put? I can think of other articles where such information is added as a footnote. If we keep the body of the article to the fictional characters (albeit including the change of name of the character and reason for this) and include the additional information as a footnote, for those who are particularly interested; would this satisfy all sides? - Arjayay (talk) 09:46, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your input, Arjayay.
Student7 says the article is about fictional characters but on what basis? It is entitled "minor ... characters" and one of the characters included by Adams was a real person. That real person was there in the article and is there and you (Student7) have not attempted to delete that section, only one sentence. (So, reductio ad absurdam, if real people should not be included Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter should not mention (or link to) Abraham Lincoln?)
My version to which Student7 objects, includes;
"Johnstone went on to achieve moderate prominence in the poetry world as an editor and festival organiser, including the 1977 Cambridge Poetry Festival.[1]"
which is similar to the status quo ante;
"In 1977 he co-ordinated the Cambridge Poetry Festival. Johnstone went on to achieve moderate success in the poetry world as an editor and festival organiser."
The same info is there but now with a citation and wikilink.
The information is relevant and backed-up with a citation. Adams used the name of someone he knew who, unsurprisingly, given he worked in poetic circles, did not wish to be held up to ridicule as the universe's worst poet and asked for his name to be deleted. This seems highly relevant (and interesting) and should be re-instated.
Nedrutland (talk) 09:55, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
References
^Richard Berengarten, "The Cambridge Poetry Festival: 35 years after", Cambridge Literary Review, I/1 (Michaelmas, 2009), pp. 148–60
To overcome this, add an {{anchor}} template above the heading like so:
{{anchor|Mr. Prosser}}
==Mr Prosser==
'''Mr L. Prosser''' is a nervous...
This ensures that the old anchor link will continue to work. I've added in the ones noted above, but there might be others lurking in there. —sroc💬12:29, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Complaint about inclusion of Coiffer material[edit]
My view is that Coiffer's book was presumptious and bad. Hence I believe that including mentions of it in this article is undesirable and even icky. Might we at the least somehow corden off his material? 2A03:B000:A00:0:0:0:0:170 (talk) 17:56, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Like other characters (Halfrunt = halbrund | Beeblebrocks = Bibelbrocken) these may have just a german root: Fug und Langweil. Especially regarding the 'antgagonist' Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz, which is just Polish for 'ordinary Jelcz car'. Jelcz-Laskowice is a typical silesian community with a typical mixed history. Now a steering wheel is in the coat of arms of this miúnicipality founded in the 13th century. There will be much to detect. Does anybody know if Adams had German sources (like a Grimm or a Muret-Sanders) at hand? Just to send an impulse… Horst Emscher (talk) 07:29, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Even a quick scan shows this article to be rather crufty. I love HG2G as much as anybody, and I'm sure that the folks who wrote the article love it too. Nonetheless, a lot of what I saw looks very crufty...very in-universe...with a lot of tongue-in-cheek references that non-fans won't likely understand.PurpleChez (talk) 20:02, 6 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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