This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
Map needed
It is requested that a mapormapsbeincluded in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in Wales may be able to help!
I have reverted Enaidmawr's unilateral edits because not only was there no consensus (this page has been organised this way for a long time), the organisation Enaidmawr chose was completely nonsensical. Owain (talk) 17:56, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In that case you have done Wikipedia a disservice. One of many Wikipedia mantras is "be bold" and improve articles. This Enaidmawr has done bringing the article into the 21st Century using geographical references that are meaningful to people living in Wales and visiting Wales. Using historic counties adds absolutely nothing and detracts greatly. I fully support and endorse Enaidmawr 's edit and deprecate Owain's. Velela (talk) 20:01, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your support, Velela. I fear that when Owain says that my rearranging of the article "was completely nonsensical" what he means is that I use the modern administrative areas instead of the ones which have either disappeared or whose boundaries have been changed. Where was the sense of having "castles in Cardiganshire" instead of Ceredigion, for instance, as the former has been replaced by the latter and is not found on modern maps? Most of the castles of Wales on this list were also built before the so-called "historic counties" were created, so their retention would be a double anachronism. What needs improving is the sections on Glamorgan and Gwent (both preserved counties), which need breaking down into their respective modern administrative areas. User Owain's agenda has always been to give the "historical counties" precedence over the modern ones, as the record of his edits proves. As Velela says, we are now in the 21st century: the "historic counties" belong to history. Enaidmawr (talk) 21:21, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A little late, but I disagree. Historically, it has not been the practice to match geographical divisions to administrative areas. County boroughs existed throughout England and Wales prior to 1974, but it was not considered necessary (although Bristol was sometimes an exception) to exclude them from the counties which contained them, for geographical purposes. Treating counties and county boroughs in Wales equally for the purposes of geographical division is inconvenient - some might say absurd - in view of the disparity in sizes. Paravane (talk) 23:07, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect that some of the structure listed here are either non existent, play-on-words or simply not worth mentioning.
Several "named castles" can't be found searching for them on the Internet or do not match any recognised name. More care must be taken to stop these erroneous sites being added.
Was wondering the same thing. I am removing Aberaeron Castle until someone can provide referenced information of anything other than the 19th century Hotel. --Traveler100 (talk) 14:46, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Aberaeron seems to have existed, although there's very little about it [1]. This website is very good for checking Wikipedia's list for spurious entries. Actually deciding what merits inclusion is difficult, but since the list needs an overhaul the best thing to do would be to work for Cathcart King's Castellarium Anglicanum which is a pretty comprehensive bibliography of castles in England and Wales. Nev1 (talk) 15:05, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Your website might be 'a bit of fun', but why should you think wikipedia is a forum just waiting for you to have your 'bit of fun' when you please? You may find wikipedia boring without being lightened up, others find flippant additions an intrusion, and especially annoying if you persist in making them, instead of taking the hint when they're deleted. However, thank you for your apology! Paravane (talk) 16:48, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
ther's much better pictures of castles than the one that is there, just saying. thanks
list of castles in Scotland in comparrison looks FINNISHED with pictures aswell also. I counted 145 casltes in Wales on that list and ONLY ONE AWEFUL picture to go with it, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.103.160.253 (talk) 11:38, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The reason a picture of Caernarfon was chosen as the lead is because it's probably the best known of the castles in wales and on top of that is part of a World Heritage Site. Unfortunately Wikipedia doesn't have really outstanding photos of the castle, but I think it could be worse. As you say though, the list could do with some work. In the meantime, I have at least added a few other images. Nev1 (talk) 19:26, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I read above that an earlier reference to "Aberaeron Castle" has been removed (no doubt originally added by someone in good faith), so just to say that I have now added Castell Cadwgan (in Aberaeron) now that the Aberaeron page contains a proper reference to it. I assume that this was the castle which was earlier being referred to, albeit by the wrong name. Hogyn Lleol (talk) 13:29, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In its present state this article is not much more than a list of names. I think maybe tables should be introduced with more information and images, similar to the pages for England and Scotland. Njb19 (talk) 12:08, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales[edit]
@Reese3196: I am dubious that Chateau Rhianfa should be classified as a castle. It is a mansion, formerly known as Plas Rhianfa. It is unclear when 'Chateau' was first used, possibly added in recent years when it became a hotel. Cadw does not use this name, and does not describe it as a castle.[3][4] I propose to remove it from this list. Verbcatcher (talk) 23:51, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. It was built in the 19th century as a summer home and dower house for his wife by the wealthy Manchester businessman John Williams[1]. It is not, in any sense, fortified and has none of the characteristic defining features of a castle. Simply a somewhat ornate Victorian mansion. The appellation "Chateau" is a very recent change by the current hotel owners. Certainly not a castle. VelellaVelella Talk 04:28, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Since this article is linked in the opening sentence to Castle which initially defines castles as from the middle ages or earlier (although it then qualifies that with some weasel wording!) then I would propose that anything later than the 18th Century is removed including Crawshay's folly in Merthyr. VelellaVelella Talk 21:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We should not be restrictive as to date. If a building is generally referred to as a castle then it should be included, irrespective of age. Penrhyn Castle and Gwrych Castle are 19th century, but look like stereotypical castles and probably have some characteristics of older castles. I think we also should include Margam Castle, because it is normally known as a castle and Cadw includes the name. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:34, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If that were to be a consensus view, then we would need to define what is meant by a castle as it would differ greatly from the definition given at Castle. I think that this is a slippery slope since it would open the doors to anyone calling their mansion/ restaurant/ hotel/ holiday cottage "Castle......." or "Castell.....". VelellaVelella Talk 04:54, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With a list article, it's better to be more inclusive than exclusive, to include things which may not be considered castles by everyone than be overly restrictive as long as the edge cases are indicated.
A source such as Pettifer's Welsh Castles has an entry for Penrhyn which is a case for inclusion here. Margam, however, isn't included in the book. That isn't the only source we should use of course, but it does make me wonder if it should be included here. Penrhyn was built in the style of a medieval castle, with architecture evocative of a Norman keep. I suppose Margam does have battlements of a sort, in imitation of castle architecture but seems a step removed from castles, and Cadw describes it as a "Tudor-Gothic mansion of exceptional quality". Richard Nevell (talk) 22:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Widening the scope from the Castle article will require explanation and clarification early on in the lede. I remain concerned that it will be difficult to make a clear definition. There are still strongly fortified manor houses in Wales that are in most respects castles of their time but are not called castles. We also have houses such as Castell Malgwyn which clearly is not a castle nor ever was but is known as a Castle in the Llechryd area. Do we also encompass Castell and Caer as defining terms? Anyone care to try and draft an opening paragraph for the article? On this talk page would probably be as good a place as any. VelellaVelella Talk 02:42, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]