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Polvo and Breadwinner aren't from the midwest; Polvo was from Chapel Hill (and really isn't math-rock) and Breadwinner was from Richmond, VA (and definitely is math-rock).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.42.62.176 (talk • contribs) 19:21, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This seems like somebody who is a fan of these bands trying to suggest an influence that doesn’t exist.
The importance of the prog rock is far overemphasized (if it even exists at all) when the band which started math rock came from the post-hardcore scene. Jjjohnson69 (talk) 00:06, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Pitchfork source for one. The source doesn’t explain the connection between the album Red and math rock.
Rush isn’t even mentioned in any cited source.
How was mathrock influenced by these bands when the first math rock band/album wasn’t influenced by prog rock itself? It was influenced by punk instead, specifically post-hardcore, which is where math rock primarily comes from.
Pitchfork: Red, released in the autumn of 1974, does not sound like a eulogy.... It was equally influential for Kurt Cobain and Trey Anastasio; as seminal for metal as it was for math rock
Rush: Song by Song: The next section '7/4 War Furor [sic.]' is a mind-melting composition of what would, in about twenty years' time be called 'math-rock' (direct link) and The amorphous space-rock intro is suddenly transformed into a tight and crispy math-rock riff (direct link)
But they didn’t influence it in general. Those are not high-quality sources and need to be removed. The source especially is basically a fan biography.
There are numerous legitimate sources that do not give credit to these bands.
The connection they have to math rock is not clear. Spiderland was the first math rock album. That album was not influenced by those bands.
And I didn’t say the sources implied they invented it. I said the math rock entry overemphasizes these supposed influences to the point that it comes across as if they were the primarily influence.
But the band who actually pioneered math rock decades later was influenced by post-hardcore.
Alex Body is a life-long Rush fan and musician. After first seeing the band on the Roll the Bones tour in 1992 he has seen Rush multiple times on every tour since and been a devoted Rush fan ever since. Passionate about music and aviation he has written about both (though not yet at the same time).
The book was published by Fonthill Media, whose books have been cited almost 300 times on Wikipedia. This is part of their "Song by Song" series of music books written by a variety of authors, including John Van der Kiste and Andrew Wild—who also wrote several "On Track" books from a different publisher, favorably covered here. There's no reason to believe that this specific book bypassed their standard editorial process or that its claims are inaccurate. That is, unless we have other sources contradicting its claims or perhaps pointing to other influences. Barring that, our own policies like WP:V and WP:NPOV require that we faithfully summarize what this source says about the subject.
In addition, please thread your comments correctly. This helps keep Talk pages readable and also aids users with screen reading software. You can see WP:THREAD for more on that. I'd also suggest reading all of the links on your own Talk page, they'll get you up to speed on our policies and guidelines. Woodroar (talk) 02:31, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
But there is reason to believe his claims are inaccurate as he is not a music historian or somebody qualified to make claims such this. Not only that, he is biased source on the account that his only qualification is as a “Rush fan.”
The publisher is irrelevant to the veracity of these claims.
Our neutral point of view policy is about us, as editors, not the sources. It says that we must fairly summarize what the sources say. Failing to summarize a source fairly, discounting it, or omitting it entirely is what violates NPOV. NPOV also specifically addresses biased sources and says that we can't ignore them. Ultimately, we have no reason to doubt this source except by analyzing other sources that counter its claims. If you have them, please produce them. And again, please remember to thread your replies and read all of the links on your Talk page and in this discussion so that you can understand why we do the things we do. Woodroar (talk) 03:16, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Both the source and editing for the article is biased.
No, we have reason to doubt it because he is not a neutral view point of view by the author’s own admission,
Look, you either have sources that counter this one or you don't, it's that simple. Bias is irrelevant because sources can be biased. Undue weight is irrelevant because you haven't produced any other sources. I'm sorry, but it's clear that you're not willing to find sources or understand our policies, so there's really nothing more to do here until that happens. And please—please—start indenting your comments appropriately. Woodroar (talk) 12:50, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]