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Inconsistent Wikipedia Entries for Marital Status[edit]
This article says Baryshnikov and Lisa Rinehart are not married. The Wikipeia entry for Lisa Rinehart says Rinehart is married to BaryshnikovTomandzeke (talk) 07:01, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
How old was Baryshnikov when he started dancing?[edit]
He joined his first dance academy at age 12 in 1960.
While the article says he was born in Latvia, he is called a Russian. Can anyone clarify? Alpheus 23:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
From what I can gather from this interview he was born and raised in Latvia to a Russian father who was one of the "occupiers" (Baryshnikov's word). So you could make a case that he is Latvian or Russian. Just to confuse things further, he's now an American. He's been an American citizen for decades, and he lives and works (mostly) in the USA. What are the Wiki standards for refering to the nationality of immigrants? SnappingTurtle 16:15, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not confuse nationality as belonging to a specfic country or region, and ethnicity as being a member of a particular ethnic group. Just because he was born and raised in Latvia, it does not make him Latvian in the ethnic sense - he is Russian by ethnicity because his parents were Russian. I was born in the former USSR as well. My birthplace is Belarus, but I lived in Uzbekistan from the time I was three and until 22 - when we moved to US. My primary language is Russian (well, it was - until I came here.) What does it make me? Ethnically, I am neither Belarussian, or Uzbek, or Russian... Ellochka 03:48, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Can you (or anyone else) provide evidence that both his parents are / were Russian? Then that can be added to the article. At the moment, it is ambiguous in that he is described as Russian, yet born in Latvia. Parentage is relevant, so should be on the article. In addition, it should be stated whether he has siblings, and whether his parents are dead or alive. Nietzsche 2 (talk) 04:26, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arctofeatured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 15:59, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, here they are his actual appearance on film and television. I don't think they'll be deleted, though I like your concept. -- Zanimum 17:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The link on the page leads to famous russian poet who lived way before Baryshnikov was born.
If somebody has information on Baryshnikov's teacher, please write the correct info, or it least this link should be taken away.
The link "Backstage with Baryshnikov" appears to be a parked page; link should be removed.
76.171.136.203 18:10, 31 January 2007 (UTC) william turner, independent scholar[reply]
I've edited his birthdate, as it was incorrectly given as January 28th, instead of the 27th. I know, because I share my birthday with him (and it is given as the 27th on pretty much any other website about him). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.170.148.130 (talk) 12:39, 20 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]
It is the 28th according to his biography on the Iconoclasts website. --PhantomS 13:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Encylopedia Brittanica [1] and IMDB [2] also give the 28th, though Oxford Dictionary of Dance has the 27th. And in an interview with Details magazine [3] they remind him that he shares a birthday with Mozart, January 27, and he doesn't say that's the wrong date. ThomWatson (talk) 19:39, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Misha's Birthday is on the 27th of January, according to the book, Baryshnikov in Black and White and most other biography's will tell you also. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.149.76 (talk) 14:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree! His birthday is on the 27th not 28th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.149.76 (talk) 12:26, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't he own a Russian restaurant in the city? I don't remember the name, it's across the street from the russian vodka room. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.56.42 (talk) 14:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I rewrote the lead (and removed the tag in the To-Do list above) and added some biographical details. It do think it is borderline criminal that the section of on "Film and Television" takes up a third of the article, while the section on "Dance" consists of three lines, one of which harps on his stature! Expansion of discussion on his work as a Dancer and Choreographer would be greatly appreciated! - Eliezg (talk) 00:40, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Classical, for this Baryshnikov recently said something about:
On a lighter note, one attendee observed that a younger generation knows Baryshnikov not as a brilliant dancer but as Aleksandr Petrovsky, Carrie Bradshaw’s love interest in the popular television series Sex and the City.
“Isn’t that a horrifying thought!” laughed Baryshnikov before explaining that although he enjoyed this acting gig, he does not miss playing the role.
Baryshnikov recently visited Israel to perform. During that time he attended a press conference where he gave various quotes reflecting his take on various issues. I am unsure as to where to add these quotes, since the article is mostly devoid of them.
Inconsistent Wikipedia Entries for Marital Status[edit]
This article says Baryshnikov and Lisa Rinehart are not married. The Wikipeia entry for Lisa Rinehart says Rinehart is married to BaryshnikovTomandzeke (talk) 06:59, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The third paragraph says that Baryshnikov started with the Mariinsky Ballet. That is the current name of the company. At the time he was with them, it was still called the Kirov Ballet. (Even the Wikpedia article on the Mariinsky Ballet says "Internationally, the Mariinsky Ballet continues to be known by its former Soviet name the Kirov Ballet.")
Also, he had more than "a promising start" at the Kirov. He had a career there. The article about him at Biography.com calls him "An experienced and respected ballet dancer in the Soviet Union during the 1960s". I saw him perform with the Kirov in Amsterdam in 1970, in a famous solo created especially for him.
Vladimir Vasiliev, Greatest male ballet dancer?[edit]
Sorry if this offends, but anyone with this distinction should be much more widely known. Nijinksy, Nureyev, and Baryshnikov all had impacts on ballet the world over. Vasiliev is not really talked about, not outside of Russia anyway. His Wikipedia page has very little information. What is his inclusion in this short list based on? Alliwalk (talk) 22:30, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Alliwalk: Well, the Russian Wikipedia article has more there, including his numerous awards which outnumber Baryshnikov etc. If you just goole "vladimir vasiliev" greatest dancer you'll see plenty of non-Russian sources that mention he's among the great dancers if not the best dancer of all time. Just because someone's Wikipedia article isn't lengthy enough doesn't mean it is not important. oncamera 01:03, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Oncamera: The question is not whether he is or isn't important. The question is his importance in the world wide history of ballet dancing, respective to male dancers. I'm sure he's important to Russian ballet and I'm sure he was a great dancer. My question is if he one of the greatest male ballet dancers in history. Obviously if I search for the exact name, his name will show up in the results. When I search for "greatest male ballet dancer", I expect his name to appear at the top of the list. It doesn't. There are other male dancers whose names do show up: Carlos Acosta, Peter Martins, Alexander Godunov, Roberto Bolle, Ethan Stiefel. Based on the fact that a casual search for "greatest male ballet dancer" does not result in his name, my question is still, what is his inclusion based on? If he was only important to Russian ballet, then by definition, he cannot be one of the greatest male ballet dancers because his influence is limited only to Russia. Respectfully, I suggest that this name be removed from the list. Alliwalk (talk) 15:22, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Alliwalk: Well, in reality that sentence is not: sourced at all so the whole sentence should be deleted unless you find sources that mention Baryshnikov is among the greatest. oncamera 17:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Oncamera: You made a good point. I removed the sentence and added a reference from Britannica.com. Alliwalk (talk) 20:43, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Should the lead sentence say "Latvian-born American", "Latvian and American", or some other option? Thedarkknightli (talk) 01:00, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with @Oncamera here. Citizenship is what counts here, no ethnicity. He’s a dual citizen, right? So, either “Latvian and American” or “American and Latvian.” If he resides in Latvia currently I’d use the former; otherwise, the latter. Qflib, aka KeeYou Flib (talk) 14:35, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But I think we should stick to his notable period so "Latvian-born American" may be better. Omitting his nationality from the first sentence while describing it in the second one sounds ok to me too. Thedarkknightli (talk) 17:30, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, on MOS:CITIZEN it says to avoid writing such things as "Latvian-born". He is an actual Latvian citizen besides being born there too. oncamera (talk page) 17:34, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think the Tina Turner page currently provides an excellent example of what could be done here. Rather than beginning with a reductive description of her as an "American-born Swiss singer," its first paragraph puts her accomplishments up front while still containing important biographical information about her nationality. It would be nice to do the same thing here, somehow. Qflib, aka KeeYou Flib (talk) 16:01, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The MOS says not to use "-born". Baryshnikov never relinquished his Latvian birthplace when he fled the USSR... Tina Turner's case is different since she relinquished her American citizenship. And it doesn't list her nationality at all in the opening sentence. You're suggesting this Baryshnikov article shouldn't list a nationality? oncamera (talk page) 18:50, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, not at all. If you look elsewhere on the page you'll see what I suggested. I just think that a holistic approach should be taken to the entire lead paragraph. Qflib, aka KeeYou Flib (talk) 20:38, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes His Latvian citizenship is sufficiently relevant to use it in the opening sentence. "Latvian-born" would be incorrect. -- Random person no 362478479 (talk) 21:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Latvian and American per MOS:NATIONALITY and the comments above about avoiding "born." Nemov (talk) 13:32, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Latvian and American (...) of Russian origins, his Russian descent is clearly relevant to his biography and should be mentioned. Marcelus (talk) 18:16, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ethnicity isn't to go into the lead sentence per MOS:ETHNICITY though. The second paragraph opening could be edited to "Born in Riga, Latvian SSR to Russian parents, Baryshnikov had a promising start..." as a compromise. I see it written like this in other articles. oncamera (talk page) 19:15, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
MOS:ETHNICITY: Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability; I can see him also be called Russian-American dancer etc. as many sources do that, and Russia is the country were he gained notability for the first time. His Russian background absolutely needs to be mentioned in the lead one way or another. Marcelus (talk) 20:28, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't say he is prominent because of his ethnicity though. You could mention the style of Russian ballet he performed in the lead, but he also learned a neoclassical version of it while in the USA under George Balanchine, who wasn't Russian. Native American dancer Maria Tallchief rose to fame under the same style of neoclassical style of Russian ballet and it didn't matter if she wasn't Russian to do so. Anyone could learn the style. Unless he did more to promote Russian culture, I don't know if it is a prominent feature. He defected from the USSR and was Soviet-born. oncamera (talk page) 20:49, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Russia is definitely more important in the context of his biography and achievements, as it was in Russia that he became one of the most prominent living dancers and achieved his first successes. Latvia has a completely episodic significance for his biography. Marcelus (talk) 21:42, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Call him like he's called on Latvian Wikipedia - an American ballet dancer, ballet master and actor originating from Latvia's Russians. I agree with Marcelus about the importance of mentioning the Russian origin. His name and surname are entirely Russian and reading that he is Latvian without mentioning that he is ethnically Russian would confuse readers.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 15:28, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
American and Latvian dancer, choreographer, and actor of Russian origin - per logic of Marcelus and Cukrakalnis, and it best meets WP:ASTONISH. A significant part of this amazing artist's fame is wrapped up with his Russian ballet career and defection to the West. Cheers, Last1in (talk) 12:47, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
American and Latvian, and make some reference that he was formerly Soviet as well, as I think it's relevant.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:33, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think that his Russian ancestry is less relevant than the fact that he was born in Latvia? Why? Marcelus (talk) 21:04, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He says his first 16 years in Latvia set his interests in the arts, it's also where he first learned ballet when his mother introduced him to it (she's also buried there). He hasn't been back to Russia (and says he was just a guest in that country anyway) in almost 50 years and left because he wanted creative freedom. He's not a promoter of Russian culture like other dancers. Three of his children don't speak any Russian. There's some obsession to proclaim him as Russian, but I don't think he feels that way. He was born in the USSR. He now has US and Latvian citizenship which he is proud of. oncamera (talk page) 21:33, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's incorrect; for example in 2012 he starred in the play "In Paris" by Ivan Bunin, he played in his native Russian ([5]). Recently he founded a True Russia foundation so it's rather clear that he still considers himself Russian and want to represent Russia, specifically anti-Putin Russia. And he didn't leave Russia specifically, but the Soviet Union, it's not like Latvia was at that time any better. Also his feeling about Latvia aren't that strong: Though his parents were Russian, he did not move to Russia until he was sixteen: “I was guest there, always.” As for Latvia, it was his birthplace, but his parents were “occupiers” (his word) there. “The minute plane set down, the minute I stepped again on Latvian land, I realized this was never my home. My heart didn’t even skip one beat. ([6]) Marcelus (talk) 22:09, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's an outdated quote from his first time returning to Latvia, he has spoken more since then about his Latvian birthplace which is linked in the article. Here's a recent quote from his "True Russia" address to Putin, where he says he's a man of the free world and that other people consider him Russian. He doesn't apply that label to himself, which he would have if he thought so. "In my childhood, the role of occupant was imposed upon me, the son of a Russian officer in Latvia, yet it didn’t stick. I learned the Latvian language, and at the age of 26, rejected all roles that your thin-necked precursors tried to impose upon me. I rejected them forever. I have lived as a person of the free world for almost 50 years now – with no roles forced onto me by others, and without fear, but people still consider me Russian, as they consider my friend Boris Akunin a Russian writer, and Sergei Guriev a Russian economist." - source The second paragraph can mention he's the son of Russian parents but I don't think it belongs in the opening sentence since he doesn't seem to own it the way other dancers like Ukrainian-born Sergei Polunin, whose has multiple citizenships but clearly says he's always regarded himself as Russian. oncamera (talk page) 22:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As I said "of Russian origins" Marcelus (talk) 20:54, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And that can go into the second paragraph of the lead, as I said. "Born in Riga, Latvian SSR, to Russian parents, Baryshnikov had a promising start..." That is how defines himself, son of Russian parents. oncamera (talk page) 21:18, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
American and Latvian (Brought here from WP:RFC/A) Seems there is consensus per both MOS:ETHNICITY & MOS:NATIONALITY
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