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"Because Arthur did not know his sisters, Morgan seduced him and gave birth to their son, the wicked inbreed Mordred. (According to the legend, Mordred grew to manhood away from Arthur's court, and eventually killed his father, bringing an end to the Arthurian age.) "
Originally, that was Morgause (another of Arthur's sisters) not Morgan in the legend (check with Le Morte d'Arthur and Once and Future King). However in more modern works (like Mists of Avalon or the mini-series Merlin), they often combine the 2, possibly to make Morgan's characters seem more maleficent. I'm not sure exactly when this started, but if someone who knows could expound that'd be great. - Jsan 17:25, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)
This is just a recommendation to whoever has authority, to move the page. Morgan le Fay -> Morgan la Faye, the correct, feminine version of the name, (since Morgana is female and this name is the French version. The equivalent english versions would be Morgan the Fairy or Morgan the Fair.)
I take umbrage to this line: "As a Celtic woman, Morgana has inherited through her mother a share of the earth magic that Arthur lacks." In no text that I know of do both Morgan and Arthur's mother have magical powers. And what is "earth magic"? Morgan typically learns her magic, from the convent she studies at and from Merlin.
That's not what I meant. I don't know of any texts that claim Morgan's powers came from feminine "earth magic" inherited from her and Arthur's mother. She certainly had powers, but their origin was either taken for granted (because she was a fay), or credited to the convent and Merlin. Clearly the character is Celtic in origin but I think we're stretching it a bit to say she got her powers from her mother when none of the major texts say this. - Cuchullain
Does the author who placed "and in recent years has been increasingly seen by feminist revisionists as the human representation of the archetypical goddess element" have any sources to indicate that this is a revisionist statement? Also, the association between feminism and revisionism is of a disputable viewpoint. I would question that the statement is made from an NPOV. --Cgranade 07:31, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC)
Our "feminine archetypes" have always been subject to 'bad press' by the patriarchal, monotheistic revisionism of conquering (his)torians. If it weren't for Marion Zimmer Bradley's feminist re-write, our spiritual connections with, and memories of our more humane ancestors, would have been savaged and lost, beyond reach. Blessed Be, MorganaSage
The above is, in my humble and straining to be objective opinion, an example of extreme POV...I would argue that ancient women were probably no more and no less humane than any women today. That goes for men too. Marion Zimmer Bradley's book, though certainly interesting, probably shouldn't be taken as history. Or, I'm sorry, (her)story. Ryan 20:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why is the Brian Rise quotation included? I've checked his website and he does not seem to offer any evidence for this point of view. If someone does have evidence to support it, could they reference it to a scholarly text or a literary source? I'm not aware of any, but perhaps someone else is.Martin Turner 19:41, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I have ever known Morgan Le Faye came from a very magical background.How is it that people presume her mother had no magical powers of her own.When her three daughters all held incredibally strong powers.Also MOrgan is a decendent of the Lady of the Lake who is as far as I have ever known is the sister of Vivian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.86.65.132 (talk • contribs)
I offer the following excerpts from my blog as request for pardon from any percieved discrepancies of my gnostic beliefs:
Sage's Equation,3/29/06
"Reality" is each Individual's own place in Time. Smallish MINDs (like mine) get boggled by the details, and feel compelled to fabricate myth and fantasy in order to establish a link to the Cosmic Comedy, and find REASON to contemplate tha NATURE of Self-Importance.
Sapho's Reply by Rita Mae Brown, c.1975 My voice rings down thru thousands of years, to coil around your bodies and give you strength, YOU who have wept in direct sunlight, YOU who have hungered for invisible things, YOU who have marched to the cadence of My Legacy: AN ARMY OF LOVERS SHALL NOT FAIL!!!
My point in submitting this content??? We are discussing Legends, Myths, and Fantasies, NOT historical Dogma, and it's my opinion that any insights into "folk-memories" should be valued for the spirit in which they are shared, not criticized by a judgmental *authority". morganasage says so,says so. Blessed Be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morganasage (talk • contribs)
I came to this article expecting to learn about Morgan LeFay, as in, the Welsh Goddess of Death, Fate, the Sea and of Curses. Any help? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 143.167.233.7 (talk) 23:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]
I think it is notable, though perhaps apocryphal, that today's Rhys/Rice family traces their lineage back through Uryan and Margaret La Faye. This genealogy obviously influenced the claim that Morgan le Fay was wed to a Urien. Here's an interesting URL that describes Lord Rhys, a bit of his genealogy, and Dinefwr Castle. It also mentions Margaret La Faye. There are lots of other references about this genealogy online if you wanted to peruse the entire pedigree. I will leave this to the page author to include as he or she sees fit. The URL to the castle web site is http://llandeilo.org/dp_middle.php. --Pulsadinura 18:30, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've read Morgan = Morgiana (she of Ali Baba fame), i.e., the legend may have come from the East... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.74.1 (talk) 17:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
rs, http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Morgan_Le_Faye —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.63.60 (talk) 13:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A character by the same name, and loosely based on the historical verison of Morgan le Fay, is featured in the Magic Tree House series of children's books written by author Mary Pope Osbourne. Morgan le Fey is referred to as a "magic librarian" in the series, and presents the protagonists with quests to complete that further the narrative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Proxytoaster (talk • contribs) 13:54, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Magic Tree House Books also specify that she is an enchantress from Camelot. Other Arthurian characters also make appearances throughout the series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.166.43.25 (talk) 18:55, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There is also a character in the Stargate series that, within the series, is the real Morgan le Fay. The series often pulls characters and their backgrounds from our history, and then modifies it on the pretense of "What if they weren't human, but alien?" In the series, she was originally an antagonist to Merlin, but later, his protector. http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Morgan_Le_Fay —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.144.85.28 (talk) 04:58, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the Warhammer Fantasy Universe. Throwaway85 (talk) 10:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
BlueMichaela (talk) 17:55, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Which legend do we derive the black birds or ravens that associate with her? The artist Amy Brown represents her as a Fairy with the black birds often associated with the mythology https://amybrownart.com/products/watercolor-painting-morgan-le-fey?_pos=1&_sid=b1d54e875&_ss=r[reply]
Since a new interpretation of Morgan/Morgana is currently at the centre of a popular TV series airing worldwide, I think it's justifiable to include her in the "later interpretations" section. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 12:29, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
From the article:"The medieval romance Floriant et Florete places Morgan's mountain home of Montegibel on Sicily, and later Italian folklore describes Morgan as living in Mount Etna". It is not clear, however Montegibel and Mount Etna are the same mountain: Mongibello is an alternative name for Mount Etna (Mon = Monte = Mount and Gibello = Gibel an arab word). 84.222.237.182 (talk) 16:33, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A probable etymology of the word may derive an ancient Greek city of Sicily. The name Morgan le Fay with ancient place names Sicilian type the ancient city of Morgantina and the people of Morganti (both the city that the people are located where once worshiped goddesses of matrons of Sicily).In addition to this the Celtic gods of the underworld are the Goddess and the God Erecura Pater and are derived from greek-Roman deities Persephone or Kore (Persephone) and Hades (Pluto) with the same myth (the Rape of Proserpine where Pluto kidnaps Persephone takes as a wife and the door to the underworld). This myth takes place near Etna (where one of the inputs of Tartarus) on a lake Lake Pergusa where is the entrance to the world of Hades (Lake Pergusa was famous in antiquity and still is for a particular phenomenon that because of its salinity at certain times of the year its waters become dark red like a lake of blood), in this place is the ancient city of Morgantina.The city of Morgantina ( king Morgen) the seat of the cult of Demeter and Kore Persfone or (this was the center where he worshiped the goddess of fertility and the underworld that were a symbol for Sicily), this city is located next to Lake Pergusa (the sacred place where you set the myth of the rape of Persephone) and is an area near Mount Etna. Curiously roman goddess of the hunt. According to the Vulgate Merlin, had its charm, given to Diana, which caused Viviane (the Lady of the Lake) to be so tempting for Merlin. The Vulgate Lancelot tells us that she was the Queen of Sicily, but considered a goddess by his subjects pagan fools. The continuation post -vulgata Merlin describes how he killed her lover to be with another man, but then he was beheaded by this man to be a murderess. This story was later transferred to a lake in France, and was later called the Lake of Diana.--151.34.11.200 (talk) 14:09, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That's interesting if true (no idea, honestly), but I removed it from the article because it needs to be sourced and written in proper English. --302ET (talk) 22:46, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There are other important medieval sources that speak of the Morgan le Fay in Sicily in addition to those already listed in folklore; in the sources is often spoken of Mount Etna indicated as Aetna, and Arabic Gibel or MontGibel, these sources are:
I removed:
because I don't know how to fix it to makse sense other than I already did with some minor edits on the sentence. (I don't even know is it true or not.) --302ET (talk) 22:54, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Same for According to the Vulgate Merlin, had its charm, given to Diana, which caused Viviane (the Lady of the Lake) to be so tempting for Merlin. The Vulgate Lancelot tells us that she was the Queen of Sicily, but considered a goddess by his subjects pagan fools. The continuation post-vulgata Merlin describes how he killed her lover to be with another man, but then he was beheaded by this man to be a murderess. This story was later transferred to a lake in France, and was later called the Lake of Diana. --302ET (talk) 23:22, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
all this is true and is available online (respectively finds Morgan le Fay in Mongibel or Gibel); and Breton bishop of Catania Ansgerio : Bishop Angerius of Catania in Sicily. Catania and Caithness were often written identically. See G. W. S. Barrow, "Angerius Brito, Cathensis Episcopus", in Traditio, xxvi, (1970), p. 351.
TAKE A LOOK AT PAGE "Bishop of Caithness".
This content is quoted on the sources of the voice: Bruce, Christopher W. (1999). The Arthurian Name Dictionary. Taylor & Francis. ISBN 0-8153-2865-6. Retrieved 24 May 2010.
SOURCE NUMBER 14 is available online: Looking letter "D" serch "Diana [Dyan(n)e]"
Please let you take care. is the best way to replace the contents, thanks--151.44.157.135 (talk) 01:31, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This page is dedicated to the Arthurian character from a scientific point of view-logic-literary history ... is not a text of prayers or spells Wiccan or neo-paganism ... There is no connection between the Morgan la fay and Welsh Goddess (POV neopagans wiccan) ... the page is blocked after an edit war with the user Cagwinn (Pov neo pagan wiccan). What do we do?--151.68.52.142 (talk) 00:06, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Details: What you say is very important and requires reliable sources, primary and secondary. These reliable sources are to be displayed so that everyone can check. These important origins of Morgan(Pov wiccan-pagan), not encyclopedia britannica [[1]]
The main problem are the points 1 and 2 that are fantasy and no reliable sources ... that is the question. You understand?!--151.18.203.114 (talk) 19:20, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if *mori-gena is correct. According to Albert Deshayes (Dictionnaire des prénoms celtiques) G in gena would have mutated to C'H in Breton (Morc'hen) and to Y in Welsh (Moryen). He thinks the fact that the letter remains unchanged means that it comes from Old Breton mor (great) and kann (radiance), with K mutating to G.
Also, the Breton morganez (mermaid) comes from mor (sea), kan (sing, with K => G) and -ez (feminine suffix).
Maybe one of these etymologies (or both) should be included in the article.--Aziliz Breizh (talk) 12:05, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder how『Morgane la fée』(Morgane the fairy) became "Morgane le Fay"?
"She becomes (...) a vindictive adversary of Arthur the Round Table". What does that mean? Is there something missing between "Arthur" and "the Round Table"? The latter seems to be used as an appellative of Arthur, which makes no sense. Was it meant to be "Arthur['s] Round Table?" "Arthur [and his] Round Table?" "Arthur [at the time he had established] the Round Table"? Kumagoro-42 12:43, 24 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kumagoro-42 (talk • contribs)
For grammar issues. --94.246.144.29 (talk) 17:05, 25 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
SNAAAAKE - can we cut back the list of "other names" in the lede, and maybe just use 3 or 4 more? Atsme📞📧 16:47, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A few there were unique, but the others have been important once and/or are popular today. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 17:41, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
SNAAAAKE!! - I'm going to nominate this article for FA. It is a worthy candidate in my view. Atsme📞📧 17:08, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it should be for various reasons. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 13:35, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not even sure are all things factually right. The Vulgate and Post-Vulgate versions are especially complicated and confusing for many reasons. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 15:57, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I just don't know. I was trying my best on secondary sources but I guess I should just read the original texts (like [2] & [3] and so on, as I just found in English). Like [4] is what the article has as "Later, after she hosts her nephews Gawain, Mordred and Gaheriet to heal them, Mordred spots the images of Lancelot's passionate love for Guinevere that Lancelot painted on her castle's walls while he was imprisoned there; Morgan shows them to Gawain and his brothers, encouraging them to take action in the name of loyalty to their king, but they do not do this" but she also heals them (the healer role again) and she didn't even want to tell them (or did she, because the preview ends abruptly), also the story seems to have her as a Christian?? That's just an example. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 20:00, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Ok, this edit - if you saw the 1st FAC reviewer’s comment about Mordred, it explains why I added his identity. The addition was supported by RS but I didn’t cite them in the lead...perhaps I should have. I realize Mordred is WikiLinked but it is not unreasonable to include who he is for clarity so readers don’t have to leave the page, which can be annoying. It doesn’t change context and satisfies the question raised by the FA reviewer. Keep in mind that you are an expert on this topic and far more familiar with the stories than most so such clarifications are helpful and not considered trivial detail. As for the “history” part - again, look at what the reviewer said. The changes/additions I made were to satisfy the concerns of the reviewers. Atsme📞📧 13:14, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is an issue with the following sentence in the article: "According to Loomis, Geoffrey was not the original inventor of Morgan's character, which had already existed in unrecorded stories of her as Arthur's fairy savior or even also his fairy godmother as being told by wandering storytellers (as credited by Gerald of Wales) that would influence various authors writing independently from each other, especially since Vita Merlini was a little known text that only survived in one manuscript." I realize that Loomis believed this, but there is no evidence to support it and the words "which had already existed in unrecorded stories" could be confusing to readers, as we have already established a few paragraphs above that Morgen appears for the first time in Geoffrey's works and "unrecorded stories", by virtue of being unrecorded(!), should be qualified by a word such as "hypothetical", or something along those lines. Cagwinn (talk) 16:53, 28 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think List of Arthurian characters should be reorganized and all the tiny articles like Morgan Tud merged there as subsections each. (Like I've done with minor Round Table knights.) Should I just get and do it? Btw I also merged Balan to Balin's and various Fisher Kings to, well, Fisher King. So alternatively Morgan Tud may be just merged here. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 07:08, 29 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
SNAAAAKE!!, ping me when you're ready to do a peer review...great work!!! Atsme✍🏻📧 00:44, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would be too much of a work to rewrite it for a GA, an effort which would be much better invested elsewhere where the articles are actually lacking or even just have no articles. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 09:32, 22 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And if you're interested in what's I'm, up to I've got for example Chun-Li just rewritten & doubled in size. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 11:07, 23 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I know, "fay" is derived from Romance "fata" which means a "goddess of fate". Therefore the gender should be female. Is there any explanation for this?--2003:CE:BBD4:D7A1:9C43:CFF4:26CF:FC8E (talk) 12:18, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Overwhelmingly dominant version [5][6] invented by Thomas Malory as noted. Actually from Old French "Morgue la fee" ("the fay"). See: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fée and https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fée_Morgane, also #Morgane la fée. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 15:53, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Morgan has many different children across many different variations and in some versions has no children at all. What about placing a link in the children section of the infobox that leads to a new section of the article that lists Morgan’s varied children and the works from which their relation to her originates.
The infobox definitively places Yvain as a child of Morgan and combines the numerous other children she has across numerous different sources as simply “Various Others”.
Yvain was not originally or always portrayed as Morgan’s son. His mother is initially portrayed as the enchantress Modron who gives birth to him and his twin sister Morfydd who were fathered by Urien as part of a prophecy. Morfydd who was a significant Arthurian character at one point is never portrayed as Morgan’s daughter to my knowledge and the portrayal of her twin brother as Morgan’s son was a later development that was not always followed. Morgan when given a husband was first said that be the wife of Nentres rather than Urien. The 12th century work “Yvain, the Knight of the Lion” is the first to associate Morgan and Yvain and portrays them as unrelated.
Then there’s Morgan’s various other children who only exist in certain stories, I believe most are named in the article but they’re not listed together and are a pain to find. As I said above, perhaps it would be best to remove Yvain from the infobox and just place a link at children that says “varies” and connect it to a new section of the article detailing Morgan’s numerous potential offspring and what work they first appear in as her child. It’s more accurate and makes the information much easier to locate for the reader. That would IMO be a definite improvement to the article. GladeMist (talk) 00:20, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Magic tree house 142.118.77.216 (talk) 22:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]